Here come the lawyers.....

[Sidebottom2Beams]

And won.

Hird will have to prove defamation which is extremely difficult.

Hird cannot prove defamation because he has no idea what Dank injected him with. He has stated he thought it was amino acids, but if the texts about Goodwin are true it shows there were PEDS floating around the club.

 

[UpTheGuts]

Hird does realise that if he sues and the Defendant calls his bluff, he will most likely need to take the stand and be examined, on oath/ affirmation?

 

[Lance Uppercut]

Hird does realise that if he sues and the Defendant calls his bluff, he will most likely need to take the stand and be examined, on oath/ affirmation?

just a hunch, but I'd say he probably isn't a complete moron, yes

 

[QuietB]

And I am sure there is a lot of stuff that all parties would prefer would never sees the light of day. A defamation case would ruin that little dream.

 

[Run n Spread]

On what grounds has Hird got to sue for defamation? Wilson et al have simply offered an opinion based on the status of the investigations.

I have not read anywhere where it has been written that Hird or Essendon knowingly cheated, or that Hird deliberately induced the players to contravene the WDA code. Who the hell would he sue?

I guess he could sue Steven Dank if he is lying after being on the 7 30 report. Problem there is all Dank has said is he injected Hird with WADA banned drugs and not the players. So by saying Dank lied is Hird then saying Dank is lying about injecting me but not about not giving the players, however unconventional WADA compliant drugs (as that is what Dank has said). Too much to lose there. Plus would Hird really want to go on the stand?

 

[CharacterFirst]

On what grounds has Hird got to sue for defamation? Wilson et al have simply offered an opinion based on the status of the investigations.

I have not read anywhere where it has been written that Hird or Essendon knowingly cheated, or that Hird deliberately induced the players to contravene the WDA code. Who the hell would he sue?

I guess he could sue Steven Dank if he is lying after being on the 7 30 report. Problem there is all Dank has said is he injected Hird with WADA banned drugs and not the players. So by saying Dank lied is Hird then saying Dank is lying about injecting me but not about not giving the players, however unconventional WADA compliant drugs (as that is what Dank has said). Too much to lose there. Plus would Hird really want to go on the stand?

I generally agree re taking the stand etc.

Isn't there likely to be a Senate inquiry anyway? I don't think they are going to let people get away with this. Even Dank.

And that is why Dankie Boy is playing his long game, media leek. He is legally guilty of something. He knows it. He knows "they" know it. And he is doing the best he can via the media, without incriminating himself any further.

Its a theory anyway.

 

[Chameleon75]

I generally agree re taking the stand etc.

Isn't there likely to be a Senate inquiry anyway? I don't think they are going to let people get away with this. Even Dank.

And that is why Dankie Boy is playing his long game, media leek. He is legally guilty of something. He knows it. He knows "they" know it. And he is doing the best he can via the media, without incriminating himself any further.

Its a theory anyway.

The thing is this has grown to the point where it's in everyone's interest for it to go away.

The afl will withdraw from the wada code before it accepts clubs being wiped out. Where does that leave asada with its largest financial backer gone? The sticking point is the public, the media have pursued this hard enough that the public wants a thorough investigation. If they can now sell the idea that there's been a thorough investigation and no action is justified, that would be the preferred route out of this mess.

There is always a reason why sports and individuals donate to governing bodies.

 

[Run n Spread]

I generally agree re taking the stand etc.

Isn't there likely to be a Senate inquiry anyway? I don't think they are going to let people get away with this. Even Dank.

And that is why Dankie Boy is playing his long game, media leek. He is legally guilty of something. He knows it. He knows "they" know it. And he is doing the best he can via the media, without incriminating himself any further.

Its a theory anyway.

There may be a senate inquiry, won't happen until after ASADA and after the next election. Who knows what the Balance of Power in the Senate will be? The real interest in Dank was where and who with he was getting the supplements from. Hence the ACC probe bikie links etc. The information linked to sports clubs came from the ACC probe. As in gyms the peptides and supplements were delivered to, sports clubs etc. From there the info got passed to ASADA, the politicians ran screaming to the press, the AFL and Essendon got their stories together and ASADA hasn't even interviewed the major players.

I agree with your sentiment but what will be investigated that hasn't already?

The thing is this has grown to the point where it's in everyone's interest for it to go away.

The afl will withdraw from the wada code before it accepts clubs being wiped out. Where does that leave asada with its largest financial backer gone? The sticking point is the public, the media have pursued this hard enough that the public wants a thorough investigation. If they can now sell the idea that there's been a thorough investigation and no action is justified, that would be the preferred route out of this mess.

There is always a reason why sports and individuals donate to governing bodies.

This is true to a point. I suspect the ministers in their press conference bit off more then they could chew. They have a heap of evidence linking the banned stuff to gyms, anti ageing clinics but none (as yet) to AFL clubs or professional athletes. Sport was mentioned heavily maybe 2+2=6 (or very much =4 but no one is willing to cop to 6 months) Hard to tell what the government stance on all this is. They can't really be seen to be pressuring an investigation and bodies yet they would want a resolution before the public starts questioning why they staged such a spectacle in the first place.

Also economically revenue is dry. Funding across departments will dry up with the budget. I doubt a major investigation under every nook and cranny can be funded any time soon.

 

[CharacterFirst]

The thing is this has grown to the point where it's in everyone's interest for it to go away.

The afl will withdraw from the wada code before it accepts clubs being wiped out. Where does that leave asada with its largest financial backer gone? The sticking point is the public, the media have pursued this hard enough that the public wants a thorough investigation. If they can now sell the idea that there's been a thorough investigation and no action is justified, that would be the preferred route out of this mess.

There is always a reason why sports and individuals donate to governing bodies.

Its not in my interest, or my kids, or the general public, or the future of the sport, or of truth and justice, for it to "go away", if by that you mean disappear ASAP with no real impact.

I think the public and media fear it may be swept under the carpet. We rightly no longer trust out authorities,be it the AFL, courts, cops, churches, pollies, etc' and that's why I don't mind a bit of media speculation and sensationalism. I think in this situation, we need someone standing up and calling out anyone involved in dodgy stuff.

And I am suspicious about people hiding behind spin like "we can't comment", "natural justice", "innocent until proven guilty" (this is true but can be abused), etc.

I agree with those saying this must be played out, despite the pain.

Don't head down the UCI path. There will truly only be losers for decades to come if it heads that way.

 

[Chameleon75]

Its not in my interest, or my kids, or the general public, or the future of the sport, or of truth and justice, for it to "go away", if by that you mean disappear ASAP with no real impact.

I think the public and media fear it may be swept under the carpet. We rightly no longer trust out authorities,be it the AFL, courts, cops, churches, pollies, etc' and that's why I don't mind a bit of media speculation and sensationalism. I think in this situation, we need someone standing up and calling out anyone involved in dodgy stuff.

And I am suspicious about people hiding behind spin like "we can't comment", "natural justice", "innocent until proven guilty" (this is true but can be abused), etc.

I agree with those saying this must be played out, despite the pain.

Don't head down the UCI path. There will truly only be losers for decades to come if it heads that way.

Absolutely correct, my point was that pragmatism might win over principle.

 

[Run n Spread]

[quote="CharacterFirst, post: 27845058, member: 116102"]Its not in my interest, or my kids, or the general public, or the future of the sport, or of truth and justice, for it to "go away", if by that you mean disappear ASAP with no real impact.

I think the public and media fear it may be swept under the carpet. We rightly no longer trust out authorities,be it the AFL, courts, cops, churches, pollies, etc' and that's why I don't mind a bit of media speculation and sensationalism. I think in this situation, we need someone standing up and calling out anyone involved in dodgy stuff.

And I am suspicious about people hiding behind spin like "we can't comment", "natural justice", "innocent until proven guilty" (this is true but can be abused), etc.

I agree with those saying this must be played out, despite the pain.

Don't head down the UCI path. There will truly only be losers for decades to come if it heads that way.[/quote]

Great post and I agree to a certain extent. However this whole saga has become a spectacle and is not at all about grass roots sport and what is best for the game. It is about whether a major club or 2 is about to be nailed to the wall for breaching ASADA. I could go on for 10 pages.

I am not disagreeing with you but I doubt the public want to see the worse case scenario. Lets say the EFC has taken WADA banned drugs and sanctions are at play. The players, their managers and the ALFPA will go absolutely ape s**t and sue every one in sight. It all plays out in a court room where fingers are pointed at other sports science departments, reviews are demanded and hey what do you know 100s of players have been doped some systematically cheat. The whole competition is compromised and in dire straights. Players doped by the chemist sue and the clubs are broke from the legal costs which go on for a decade.

Now if the investigation and audits were about the culture they would look at the following points:
a) What is in the spirit of sport? Should injections be allowed at all or are they about helping atheltes recover from excessive training?

b) Are players been coerced, forced, suggested or led to medical treatment and supplements they don't want?

c) Where is the limit between PEDs and assistance? How can the ASADA code be made simpler so we can identify those who cheat and are roided up hulks rather than those who take a chemist pill or supplement with 1% of some obscure ingredient and are pinged?

d) How does this fit with the rest of society? There are pills and drugs for everything. Anti ageing, growth hormones and peptides are medical options. Should this be outlawed to enhance clean living or does individual determination play a role? Is it preferable to stop?What of regulatory bodies approving their use? How do you stop importing of non recreational drugs churned out in China by the %##load to meet demand.

The investigation is not about any of those points. It is did the dons breach the code with other clubs based. The evidence gained from ACC probes into bikies links with pep-tides kicked things off.

I have a feeling it is all too hard for those in charge, they don't really want a cultural change affecting the product they want a clean bill of health and this whole cluster &^^^* to go away and their dirty linen back behind the laundry door.

 

[CharacterFirst]

Great post and I agree to a certain extent. However this whole saga has become a spectacle and is not at all about grass roots sport and what is best for the game. It is about whether a major club or 2 is about to be nailed to the wall for breaching ASADA. I could go on for 10 pages.

I am not disagreeing with you but I doubt the public want to see the worse case scenario. Lets say the EFC has taken WADA banned drugs and sanctions are at play. The players, their managers and the ALFPA will go absolutely ape s**t and sue every one in sight. It all plays out in a court room where fingers are pointed at other sports science departments, reviews are demanded and hey what do you know 100s of players have been doped some systematically cheat. The whole competition is compromised and in dire straights. Players doped by the chemist sue and the clubs are broke from the legal costs which go on for a decade.

Now if the investigation and audits were about the culture they would look at the following points:
a) What is in the spirit of sport? Should injections be allowed at all or are they about helping atheltes recover from excessive training?

b) Are players been coerced, forced, suggested or led to medical treatment and supplements they don't want?

c) Where is the limit between PEDs and assistance? How can the ASADA code be made simpler so we can identify those who cheat and are roided up hulks rather than those who take a chemist pill or supplement with 1% of some obscure ingredient and are pinged?

d) How does this fit with the rest of society? There are pills and drugs for everything. Anti ageing, growth hormones and peptides are medical options. Should this be outlawed to enhance clean living or does individual determination play a role? Is it preferable to stop?What of regulatory bodies approving their use? How do you stop importing of non recreational drugs churned out in China by the %##load to meet demand.

The investigation is not about any of those points. It is did the dons breach the code with other clubs based. The evidence gained from ACC probes into bikies links with pep-tides kicked things off.

I have a feeling it is all too hard for those in charge, they don't really want a cultural change affecting the product they want a clean bill of health and this whole cluster &^^^* to go away and their dirty linen back behind the laundry door.

Good post. But if the bold is true, the game may die a long and painful death, if it isn't already.

 

[Bluesince62]

Given that this topic and a number of others have gone completely off topic how about closing a few of them down mods. IMO one for Essendon and one for Melbourne is more than enough.