Toast Heritier Lumumba pens heartfelt letter to ex-teammates, wants club to own up to mistreatment

When reading drivel like this try substituting Lumanba for Goodes and you'll realise you've heard it all before. "Attention seeking, relevance, spotlight, grandstanding" . Same old shite.
H’s experience is very different to Goodes. Why do you group them together?
 
Jul 21, 2008
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i'm sure you'll be able to sustain that allegation just as well as your previous character attacks on him. (ie . not at all)
Premiership Magpie Heritier Lumumba has again taken aim at his former club, accusing Nathan Buckley of ostracising him in 2013 after the player spoke out against Eddie McGuire and admitting he took mushrooms to deal with the stress.

 
Jul 27, 2013
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Premiership Magpie Heritier Lumumba has again taken aim at his former club, accusing Nathan Buckley of ostracising him in 2013 after the player spoke out against Eddie McGuire and admitting he took mushrooms to deal with the stress.

Fair enough. Apology for that one. Now - the evidence that he lies as you also suggested?
 
because the language used to deride them is so damn similar - "attention seeking flog" "grand standing". "seeking relevance" . dunno if they have anything else in common though do they?
I can only speak for myself, but I don’t see too many familiarities
 
Fair enough. Apology for that one. Now - the evidence that he lies as you also suggested?
He exaggerates, he omits evidence and he probably invents fiction.
 
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because the language used to deride them is so damn similar - "attention seeking flog" "grand standing". "seeking relevance" . dunno if they have anything else in common though do they?
You have a fair point as there probably have been similar criticisms of both players. One notable difference is that you will find that several of the posters with whom you are currently arguing were passionate supporters of Goodes and were critical of the treatment he received from football crowds. They feel very differently about Lumumba's claims.
 
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You have a fair point as there probably have been similar criticisms of both players. One notable difference is that you will find that several of the posters with whom you are currently arguing were passionate supporters of Goodes and were critical of the treatment he received from football crowds. They feel very differently about Lumumba's claims.
im sure id find as many - if not more - who trotted out the same crap for both.
 

1soffa

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Alas it won’t happen here. There is no uprising or real change on the horizon. 230 years of Aboriginal oppression is not going to be recognised any tome soon in our constitution.
The ramblings of a Brazilian footy player are not going to change that or bring down the club.
Was there change on the horizon of the USA regarding race relations three weeks ago?

The change I am referring to is constant. It is conceivable to me the core issue lies in the interaction of a person from a 'minority' background with progressive views has encountered a institution with slightly behind the times views. I find Bucks incredibly progressive in terms of football culture but maybe after so many years in the system he was still not in a place where recognising how damaging the nickname Chimp could be or in recognising it is no longer ok to denigrate/joke by calling someone les. I don't think Bucks attends sociology lectures at Uni that often.

Why use the term ramblings? Why denigrate. In no way do I find Heritier rambling. Quite articulate and up to date in dialogue in his recent comments. Truth or not, no ramblings. Stop discrediting and deal with his claims or deny them. Denigration is the stance of the threatened. Of course this will not bring down the club. Did AlMac bring down the club? Did we fail during this time to deal appropriate with the claims and reality of racism? I don't know where you stand but I think that is as clear as can be. We were racist. As a club and as a supporter base. I used to stand on the grass at Vic Park. Now this is one reality I will attest to you. We were a bunch of animals out there. Nothing was off limits. Race/creed/sexuality. We would abuse the enemy on any basis we could find whether it existed or not. I was there, I was part of it.
 

1soffa

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This is personal for Lumumba - theres a reason for no mention of Malthouse, Buckley moved him on.
Listen carefully to his Copeland speech, and then tie into what he's currently saying. Its all far too convenient.
Of course this is personal. Everything he is bringing up is personal. It may be as simple as timing. When Heritier was ready - aware, confident - to rise this issue Mick was gone. It maybe as simple as Mick, as an older, experienced coach, was more adept at dealing with the range of players that he coached, more faniliar with minority players and their concerns. No fan of Mick but he must have had some talent, the premierships didn't come by default.

Maybe as simple as Heritier became aware of the undertones of racial abuse during his later years at the club which coincide with Bucks as coach. Maybe as simple as Bucks was focused on the club and premierships whereas Heritier was focused on social issues.
 
Jul 21, 2008
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Of course this is personal. Everything he is bringing up is personal. It may be as simple as timing. When Heritier was ready - aware, confident - to rise this issue Mick was gone. It maybe as simple as Mick, as an older, experienced coach, was more adept at dealing with the range of players that he coached, more faniliar with minority players and their concerns. No fan of Mick but he must have had some talent, the premierships didn't come by default.

Maybe as simple as Heritier became aware of the undertones of racial abuse during his later years at the club which coincide with Bucks as coach. Maybe as simple as Bucks was focused on the club and premierships whereas Heritier was focused on social social issues.
The nickname chimp began in 2006 so Mick presided over it for 5 years, three years longer than Buckley.
 
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You come across as a one eyed supporter. I love it. Belittling the accuser doesn't remove the accusation. Ignoring the problem will not remove it. If even 2% of Heritier's claims are true whether it comes out 1, 2 or ten years from now the mud will stick on the pies, particularly Eddie and Bucks. If this is nothing to his claims then say so. Deal with it now.

On this one eyed stuff. I love my wife. Over the last 15 years a hot girl has morphed to bordering obese. Cowboy is out, my poor old bones are brittle. It is a truth: neither of us want to look at it, I dare not discuss it. I love her guts. Amazing person. Not perfect. I support the pies. Unfortunately we have warts. Not sure my love for the pies justifies ignoring them.



Geesuss. I admit to rarely having a grasp on where you are coming from. The most obtuse poster on this list and possibly the most interesting for mine.

I have absolutely no grip on what you are saying or how it related to my post. I am tempted to respond that of course racism doesn't involve concentration camps amongst the AFL but that the racist viewpoint does. That the Western Bulldogs have absolutely nothing to do with the pies in this respect: our dirty laundry (or clean) is ours. That there is nothing simple about this world, as our understanding and knowledge increases so does the recognition of the complexity. Still none of that may have anything to do with what you are on about.

I will add this Markfs. I had a chat with the beloved just now, who is employed as an indigenous educator in our region. She laughed at the notion K07's apology meant nothing. She told me it changed things for her, as it did for me. She told me it changed things for the elders and communities she works amongst. She told me if child A is distraught because child B walks through their magnificent lego building an apology doesn't take the pain away but it changes everything if child B says sorry because it gives child A recognition of said pain. If we thought Kevin07's apology would be the end of any discussion or complaints that was our illusion. If we did it or thought it was done with that purpose in mind we were blind. It didn't solve the problem, it only created the grounds to start the conversation.

I have a deep suspicion there is a lot of truth in Heritier's story. That in raising his experience in team meetings he opened a conversation and got silence. The club needs to reopen the conversation. Not on their terms, in their territory or in their time but his. If their is any truth to his story then lets do it. Or not. No wishy/washy lets sit down bs.

Did you tell your beloved that you created a BF account and a few posts in, apropos of nothing, described her as bordering on obese?




Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
 

1soffa

Draftee
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The nickname chimp began in 2006 so Mick presided over it for 5 years, three years longer than Buckley.
Yeah, but it is conceivable Heritier did not at that time recognise the damage or felt able to challenge. No suggestion from me Bucks was the cause but perhaps not enough part of the the solution from H's point of view. I stress I dont know what happened, only speculating from my experience of human interaction.
Did you tell your beloved that you created a BF account and a few posts in, apropos of nothing, described her as bordering on obese?
Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
FFS shhhhhhh. pls. She is asleep at the moment and that information would benefit no one. Help me out here. I was illustrating that love knows no boundaries, tolerates imperfections. What are you trying to point out? That I am an ahole? Spot on. Anything more?
 

Markfs

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You come across as a one eyed supporter. I love it. Belittling the accuser doesn't remove the accusation. Ignoring the problem will not remove it. If even 2% of Heritier's claims are true whether it comes out 1, 2 or ten years from now the mud will stick on the pies, particularly Eddie and Bucks. If this is nothing to his claims then say so. Deal with it now.

On this one eyed stuff. I love my wife. Over the last 15 years a hot girl has morphed to bordering obese. Cowboy is out, my poor old bones are brittle. It is a truth: neither of us want to look at it, I dare not discuss it. I love her guts. Amazing person. Not perfect. I support the pies. Unfortunately we have warts. Not sure my love for the pies justifies ignoring them.



Geesuss. I admit to rarely having a grasp on where you are coming from. The most obtuse poster on this list and possibly the most interesting for mine.

I have absolutely no grip on what you are saying or how it related to my post. I am tempted to respond that of course racism doesn't involve concentration camps amongst the AFL but that the racist viewpoint does. That the Western Bulldogs have absolutely nothing to do with the pies in this respect: our dirty laundry (or clean) is ours. That there is nothing simple about this world, as our understanding and knowledge increases so does the recognition of the complexity. Still none of that may have anything to do with what you are on about.

I will add this Markfs. I had a chat with the beloved just now, who is employed as an indigenous educator in our region. She laughed at the notion K07's apology meant nothing. She told me it changed things for her, as it did for me. She told me it changed things for the elders and communities she works amongst. She told me if child A is distraught because child B walks through their magnificent lego building an apology doesn't take the pain away but it changes everything if child B says sorry because it gives child A recognition of said pain. If we thought Kevin07's apology would be the end of any discussion or complaints that was our illusion. If we did it or thought it was done with that purpose in mind we were blind. It didn't solve the problem, it only created the grounds to start the conversation.

I have a deep suspicion there is a lot of truth in Heritier's story. That in raising his experience in team meetings he opened a conversation and got silence. The club needs to reopen the conversation. Not on their terms, in their territory or in their time but his. If their is any truth to his story then lets do it. Or not. No wishy/washy lets sit down bs.

The post was about dealing with the Heritier issue not the problem of racism. I said all along that Heritier wants acknowledgement of the wrongdoings of the club. The problem is that some of that involved the behaviour of individual footballers and i'm not sure that the club should be apologising for a players behaviour even if it is partially responsible for it. So it would seem that the club can apologise for how it handled Heritier's complaints if it did handle them incorrectly. I also added that the corporates mightnt like the club making such admissions because corporates are like that now. So Eddie and Anderson have to weigh up the impact of admitting mistakes, against doing the principled thing. Then there is the payout problem but I dont see it as a problem to pay Heritier compensation if the club has acted wrongly. So a simple admission of wrong doing (which I suggested this morning) now becomes a complex scenario.

However, i agree that Heritier is setting out what he wants and Eddie and Bucks seem to think that he wants something else. Heritier wants something public. He wants to have acknowledgement with no discussion. That seems pretty clear. In some respects it's a pretty good PR tactic ffor Eddie and Bucks to say that they want to talk things over with Heritier, although it mightnt just be PR. If you like and respect Buc ks - and I do from a distance - then his desire to have this sit down meeting is a good-hearted initiative, but it isnt what Heritier wants. Eddie is probably less good-hearted and more about his inflated overconfidence in himself to solve any issue.

They keep saying that they want him back in the fold and I keep thinking that Heritier is looking at the Pies like someone looks at their ex after a divorce. They dont want to have nothing to do with ex-spouses after a divorce. Bucks says that he wants to show Heritier how the club has improved..... I dont think H gives a stuff. He's over the Pies. He's onto the next phase of his life as an activist. if your ex-spouse asks you to come over and see how happy she is since she left you, you tell her that you have better things to do. So I agree with you that the resolution needs to be on Heritier's terms, if the club wants to do it, or not at all. This desire to kiss and make up is romantic nonsense... and this saga will drag on for another 6 years.
 

Markfs

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Yeah, but it is conceivable Heritier did not at that time recognise the damage or felt able to challenge. No suggestion from me Bucks was the cause but perhaps not enough part of the the solution from H's point of view. I stress I dont know what happened, only speculating from my experience of human interaction.

FFS shhhhhhh. pls. She is asleep at the moment and that information would benefit no one. Help me out here. I was illustrating that love knows no boundaries, tolerates imperfections. What are you trying to point out? That I am an ahole? Spot on. Anything more?

I was thinking of creating a new personna who has a skinny wife with a pair of large earlobes...
 
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Did H feel any less valued as a person whilst at Collingwood? If that’s the case, that’s unfortunate. In my experience, a footy club is a great leveller. Maybe “The Prince” would’ve been better off playing tennis?
Would an apology increase his sense of worth? Does he have a deep set self esteem issue? What does he need the apology for? If Collingwood has a policy that emphatically states that any person of colour has the exact opportunities to succeed and create personal wealth as a white player, what else does he expect? Do black players shower in a seperate room? Do they get strapped up last? Are all players treated exactly the same? Does he expect preferential treatment for blacks as a form of reparation? Where the hell does this all end? Is H going to let the bitterness destroy him?
.... I wouldn’t seek guidance from LeBron. LeBron would have as much connection with a black from the ‘hood as Ed would with Mo from Broadie. LeBron also kow-towed to the Chinese Government over some NBA-racism malarkey. The same CCP that imprison 2 million plus Moslem Chinese in concentration camps for “reprogramming” and/or organ harvesting. The same CCP that had the fine morals to hide the details of a naughty little virus that brought the world to it’s knees for half a year thus far. Anti-racism and application of morals should be applicable for all. LeBron’s hypocritical analysis isn’t really valid or needed.
 

1soffa

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Gunna delete this account now and try and find the guts to inhabit the real one. Joined BF to learn more about CFC and footy. Begun to believe these conversations are more important than that. No matter how gritty the various opinions are for any of us they deserve airtime. In this current world any opinion too far off the status quo is slammed. Some safety here and from that basis exchange and learning can occur. Love yas all.

Ps. Markfs: large earlobes? You need to broaden your horizons. If you are gunna invent I recommend go hot. Everyone will be jealous. No one is turned on by large earlobes ... or are they...?
 
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H was about 10 years ahead of his time as far as equality on race, sex & gender etc was concerned. We are all still catching up in 2020.
If he feels slighted by the coach & prez, then we should make more effort to heal the rift.
I feel like they have probably tried going by Buckley’s comments. H’s comments today were not helpful, all we have heard is his side of the story...I figure if you don’t want to sit down and discuss, then sit down and shut up.
 

Markfs

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Gunna delete this account now and try and find the guts to inhabit the real one. Joined BF to learn more about CFC and footy. Begun to believe these conversations are more important than that. No matter how gritty the various opinions are for any of us they deserve airtime. In this current world any opinion too far off the status quo is slammed. Some safety here and from that basis exchange and learning can occur. Love yas all.

Ps. Markfs: large earlobes? You need to broaden your horizons. If you are gunna invent I recommend go hot. Everyone will be jealous. No one is turned on by large earlobes ... or are they...?

Before you delete the account, you can take the chance to say something racist or make some outrageous claim. Then you can just vanish......

And remember to come back with a nickname that truely reflects your fascinating personality. My first account at BF was called AstonishingPerson..... and I had an account called OutrageouslyBrilliant.... I was loved by all on both of those....a little different to my current personna.
 
to denigrate. nothing more.
Ramble - talk or write at length in a confused or inconsequential way.

Go back and listen to his Copeland Trophy speech.

If you still believe I’m “denigrating” him, I can change the phrase to musings.
 

Mortimore 39ers

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Gunna delete this account now and try and find the guts to inhabit the real one. Joined BF to learn more about CFC and footy. Begun to believe these conversations are more important than that. No matter how gritty the various opinions are for any of us they deserve airtime. In this current world any opinion too far off the status quo is slammed. Some safety here and from that basis exchange and learning can occur. Love yas all.

Ps. Markfs: large earlobes? You need to broaden your horizons. If you are gunna invent I recommend go hot. Everyone will be jealous. No one is turned on by large earlobes ... or are they...?

That's probably for the best. Outside of your amusing (guessing uni-influenced) social science/humanities ramblings regarding HL you posted to "illuminate the masses", you lost me when you disrespected your Mrs.
Poor form mate.
 
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