Analysis Hickey vs Longer

[Glen Buterol]

I'm sure the debate will rage on but I've copped some real flak on here from a few questionable characters the last couple of years for my support of Longer and being critical of Hickey.
I think me running "a personal agenda" for big Billy is really starting to pay off. As Louis Slungpue would say:
"Go ****in ****** ******* **** off smashed crab campaigner ******* **** ****".

 

[Moorabbin Ghost]

There's got to be more to it. This is the same bloke who stitched up Gawn and Mummy in consecutive weeks last year as well as many others.

Something's not right. Looked like a shattered unit last night. I almost felt sorry for him.

I've said this before but somehow Hickey's 2016 has been so overhyped for whatever reason. He was still average in the ruck last year. He did have a few games where he won a bit of the footy around the ground which makes his stats even more concerning.
For "one of the best ruckman in the league" last season as some have suggested on here he averaged 13 disposals and 29 hitouts. Not exactly awe inspiring statistics.
The other thing we need to remember is that our clearance work last year was a major concern as mentioned by Richo between seasons on numerous occasions. This didn't start to rectify itself until Longer came back into the side this season.
I've mentioned this on a number of occasions over the last 18 months and have been attacked on here and in private messages but the simple fact is that Billy Longer is a better ruckman and makes us a better team. We can't write Hickey off after last night but over his 5 games this season we are all hopefully getting a better understanding of what both Hickey and Longer can offer us.

 

[VDS66]

I've said this before but somehow Hickey's 2016 has been so overhyped for whatever reason. He was still average in the ruck last year. He did have a few games where he won a bit of the footy around the ground which makes his stats even more concerning.
For "one of the best ruckman in the league" last season as some have suggested on here he averaged 13 disposals and 29 hitouts. Not exactly awe inspiring statistics.
The other thing we need to remember is that our clearance work last year was a major concern as mentioned by Richo between seasons on numerous occasions. This didn't start to rectify itself until Longer came back into the side this season.
I've mentioned this on a number of occasions over the last 18 months and have been attacked on here and in private messages but the simple fact is that Billy Longer is a better ruckman and makes us a better team. We can't write Hickey off after last night but over his 5 games this season we are all hopefully getting a better understanding of what both Hickey and Longer can offer us.

Private messages... seriously? FMD.

 

[StCicatriz]

I've said this before but somehow Hickey's 2016 has been so overhyped for whatever reason. He was still average in the ruck last year. He did have a few games where he won a bit of the footy around the ground which makes his stats even more concerning.
For "one of the best ruckman in the league" last season as some have suggested on here he averaged 13 disposals and 29 hitouts. Not exactly awe inspiring statistics.
The other thing we need to remember is that our clearance work last year was a major concern as mentioned by Richo between seasons on numerous occasions. This didn't start to rectify itself until Longer came back into the side this season.
I've mentioned this on a number of occasions over the last 18 months and have been attacked on here and in private messages but the simple fact is that Billy Longer is a better ruckman and makes us a better team. We can't write Hickey off after last night but over his 5 games this season we are all hopefully getting a better understanding of what both Hickey and Longer can offer us.

i noticed that it took all of 5 minutes for the entire midfield to be affected by hickeys ineffectiveness in there

just throws everything off becuase they're so reactionary and trying to defend the hit outs knowing they wont get a winning one

 

[gringo2011]

Yep, spot on. As I'd gone in to bat so much for Billy from before the season even started, I paid far closer attention to him and what he was doing once he started playing and the work he would do inside the packs was really impressive.

He was constantly blocking, tackling, bumping, shepherding, knocking the ball on and so-on, to help those around him and the team.

He doesn't generally do much once the ball gets out of the packs obviously, but what he does in the ruck contests and then when the ball is still in the area is usually very valuable.

He's regularly over 20 pressure acts and is averaging about 16 per game for the season. Unfortunately Tom had just 7 of them last night and just 8 in his last game, which doesn't help his case or cause.

Oh come on man, I nearly always agree with everything you write but Jeezus, Longer can make the ruck a shit fight but he's a limited shit truck. Hickey was just 10,000 times worse than a shit truck last night. We don't have a very good ruck division, what you wrote above makes him sound like Mumford bred with Naitanui.

 

[gringo2011]

i noticed that it took all of 5 minutes for the entire midfield to be affected by hickeys ineffectiveness in there

just throws everything off becuase they're so reactionary and trying to defend the hit outs knowing they wont get a winning one

He was shit but it's talking it up. There was hardly a goal scored in the first quarter to hit the centre square and only three stoppages for the quarter. He hardly did anything around the ground so he must have used some kind of osmotic contagion of shitness to do that. We had a shit midfield that played behind and did't even pressure.

 

[gringo2011]

I've said this before but somehow Hickey's 2016 has been so overhyped for whatever reason. He was still average in the ruck last year. He did have a few games where he won a bit of the footy around the ground which makes his stats even more concerning.
For "one of the best ruckman in the league" last season as some have suggested on here he averaged 13 disposals and 29 hitouts. Not exactly awe inspiring statistics.
The other thing we need to remember is that our clearance work last year was a major concern as mentioned by Richo between seasons on numerous occasions. This didn't start to rectify itself until Longer came back into the side this season.
I've mentioned this on a number of occasions over the last 18 months and have been attacked on here and in private messages but the simple fact is that Billy Longer is a better ruckman and makes us a better team. We can't write Hickey off after last night but over his 5 games this season we are all hopefully getting a better understanding of what both Hickey and Longer can offer us.

No one thought he was best in the league, he was just good around the ground. Longer the year before was terrible so he looked good by comparison.

 

[PaddysurDaddy]

I was a big hickey believer after 2016, didn't write off longer but felt hickey was the man for the job. I was wrong. I jumped ship earlier this year after grundy threw him around like a rag doll, but last night was putrid. He can be seriously good around the ground as part of a chain, can take the odd grab, but as a ruckman, he's fairly bloody average.

If it was a final and longer was out, I'd take holmes over hickey, every day of the week. Holmes can't do much around the ground, but he's strong, he can leap, he gives us the start and the confidence we need to play our attacking brand of footy.

I'd take an early second rounder for hickey in a heartbeat if he can't toughen up and give us a bloody chance in the centre square

 

[Nutsngum]

The glee in this thread is ****ing sickening. Some of you would rather see one of our own player's career destroyed just to be proven right on a ****ing internet forum.

 

[saintbill]

I have been in the Hickey camp the whole time, happy to admit I am wrong. It's only 1 game but in a sense it was much worse than just an off night. Hickey is just too weak, gets moved off the ball far too easily.

In saying that, I am not going to rush into praising Longer as a star. He had just come off his best game of the year, so that is fresh in our memories. Reality is he is a seriously limited footballer. At least there is something to work with I guess.

Overall, our Ruck stocks are pretty average despite having a plethora of them on our list. Hopefully Marshall becomes a decent option.

 

[sasaint]

I said it earlier but our ruck plans have not come together as hoped. Part due to lack of player development like Pierce and part due to rule changes, Hickey. By next season I can see us having Longer as #1 with Marshall and Holmes as backup. Plus bringing in a new development ruck that suits the new game rules. I don't see us getting anything for either Hickey or Pierce trade wise. We just got to move on. Still better than the days we has so little ruck coverage that we had to play Roo as backup ruck. That goes back...

 

[stfan]

Still better than the days we has so little ruck coverage that we had to play Roo as backup ruck. That goes back...

When was that? I remember that Roo yes went third man up throughout his career, and yes took the odd HO. But I do not recall him playing as a backup ruck.

 

[NarklesHelmet]

This thread has taken a strange turn after the Hickey game on Friday night. I'm going to try and unpack how we have gotten to the point we are at from the point of view of someone neither in the Hickey or Longer camps:

• Hickey had a breakout year in 2016. People can say it was an "over-rated" or "over-hyped" year but that's just opinion. The facts are that as a 25 year old (young for a ruckman) he stepped up his game in all facets, was finally injury free and took some big scalps. He linked up well around the ground and started taking marks/asserting himself on contests. I was rapt for the bloke, there's nothing more satisfying for supporters than seeing players have break-out years. The funny thing was, while most of us were rapt that Hickey had a break-out year, some supporters seemed more interested in reminding us that Longer was the better ruckman and had Hickey's measure instead of just enjoying seeing a player in Hickey do well.
• Pre-season 2017. With Longer now thankfully back from his concussion issues, the "Longer is better than Hickey" brigade started getting into the swing of things. We started hearing about training performances where Longer was on top, that the ruck battle was wide open etc etc. All pretty bemusing for the average fan like me who saw their performances over pre-season and Hickey's vastly superior (and praised by Richo) performance in the final pre-season game against Sydney and was wondering why a ruckman fresh from a break-out year previously and a top 10 B & F finish was being questioned.
• The 2017 season starts! Hickey, after having what many consider the best ruckman in the game, (Max Gawn's) measure in previous encounters, was finally beaten by Gawn. The team had a poor day but the Hickey sceptics were up and about and he copped it big time. Round 2 and Hickey answers his critics being the Saints best player in a close loss in Perth. Silence from the sceptics for a week. But not for much longer. While the team had wins the next 2 weeks, it was widely seen that Hickey lost his ruck battles and that the third man up rule was killing him. True or not, the movement against him was growing. He wasn't going to survive a loss and it came at the hands of a quarter of brilliance from Joel Selwood. Hickey carried the can for this and was "managed" the next week against a player he would have matched up very well on (McEvoy), denying him the chance to get an easy kill barely 3 weeks after being the saints best and having come up against some quality ruckmen.
• Now the fun really starts! Longer's in, and we win, and win big! And did Longer play a big part? "Of course he did", say the Longer backers. But hang on, wasn't his direct opponent (McEvoy) the oppositions best player and he didn't register a kick? "You see, the thing with Longer is that he does a lot of bullocking work and pressure acts that isn't captured in stats...." this becomes a common line trotted out over the coming weeks when people question Longer in a way that would make squealer from Animal Farm proud for those of you familiar with the book. When the midfield does well and we win "Look at how Longer gives them first use and pressures". When we lose and the midfield gets beaten "we've got a crap midfield we're going nowhere with a midfield like this, we need Kelly". But silence on Longer.
• Finally, after his best game for the club, Longer does a hamstring and Hickey comes back. Hickey, no doubt having suffered a loss in confidence from an injury and at being dropped, unsurprisingly has an awful game. And how do our "fans" react? Half of them almost gloat in an "I told you so" fashion. The other half stick the boots into the bloke when he is at his lowest point. Calls for de-listing, shooting, you name it. Unbelievable stuff from so-called supporters.

For what it's worth, I believe Hickey has been hurt by the 3rd man up rule. And I believe Longer has shown a fair bit in wins against the Giants and Richmond. But the main thing is, I want both to go out there and kill it every week they pull on the jumper of the club I love.

One thing is for certain: this Longer/Hickey thing has brought out the worst side of our supporter base, there's no doubt about it.

 

[Sir Skid]

This thread has taken a strange turn after the Hickey game on Friday night. I'm going to try and unpack how we have gotten to the point we are at from the point of view of someone neither in the Hickey or Longer camps:

• Hickey had a breakout year in 2016. People can say it was an "over-rated" year but that's just opinion. The facts are that as a 25 year old (young for a ruckman) he stepped up his game in all facets, was finally injury free and took some big scalps. He linked up well around the ground and started taking marks/asserting himself on contests. I was rapt for the bloke, there's nothing more satisfying for supporters than seeing players have break-out years. The funny thing was, while most of us were rapt that Hickey had a break-out year, some supporters seemed more interested in reminding us that Longer was the better ruckman and had Hickey's measure instead of just enjoying seeing a player in Hickey do well.
• Pre-season 2017. With Longer now thankfully back from his concussion issues, the "Longer is better than Hickey" brigade started getting into the swing of things. We started hearing about training performances where Longer was on top, that the ruck battle was wide open etc etc. All pretty bemusing for the average fan like me who saw their performances over pre-season and Hickey's vastly superior (and praised by Richo) performance in the final pre-season game against Sydney and was wondering why a ruckman fresh from a break-out year previously and a top 10 B & F finish was being questioned.
• The 2017 season starts! Hickey, after having what many consider the best ruckman in the game, (Max Gawn's) measure in previous encounters, was finally beaten by Gawn. The team had a poor day but the Hickey sceptics were up and about and he copped it big time. Round 2 and Hickey answers his critics being the Saints best player in a close loss in Perth. Silence from the sceptics for a week. But not for much longer. While the team had wins the next 2 weeks, it was widely seen that Hickey lost his ruck battles and that the third man up rule was killing him. True or not, the movement against him was growing. He wasn't going to survive a loss and it came at the hands of a quarter of brilliance from Joel Selwood. Hickey carried the can for this and was "managed" the next week against a player he would have matched up very well on (McEvoy), denying him the chance to get an easy kill barely 3 weeks after being the saints best and having come up against some quality ruckmen.
• Now the fun really starts! Longer's in, and we win, and win big! And did Longer play a big part? "Of course he did", say the Longer backers. But hang on, wasn't his direct opponent (McEvoy) the oppositions best player and he didn't register a kick? "You see, the thing with Longer is that he does a lot of bullocking work and pressure acts that isn't captured in stats...." this becomes a common line trotted out over the coming weeks when people question Longer in a way that would make squealer from Animal Farm proud for those of you familiar with the book. When the midfield does well and we win "Look at how Longer gives them first use and pressures". When we lose and the midfield gets beaten "we've got a crap midfield we're going nowhere with a midfield like this, we need Kelly". But silence on Longer.
• Finally, after his best game for the club, Longer does a hamstring and Hickey comes back. Hickey, no doubt having suffered a loss in confidence from an injury and at being dropped, unsurprisingly has an awful game. And how do our "fans" react? Half of them almost gloat in an "I told you so" fashion. The other half stick the boots into the bloke when he is at his lowest point. Calls for de-listing, shooting, you name it. Unbelievable stuff from so-called supporters.

For what it's worth, I believe Hickey has been hurt by the 3rd man up rule. And I believe Longer has shown a fair bit in wins against the Giants and Richmond. But the main thing is, I want both to go out there and kill it every week they pull on the jumper of the club I love.

One thing is for certain: this Longer/Hickey thing has brought out the worst side of our supporter base, there's no doubt about it.

Ripping post and well said

 

[Moorabbin Ghost]

This thread has taken a strange turn after the Hickey game on Friday night. I'm going to try and unpack how we have gotten to the point we are at from the point of view of someone neither in the Hickey or Longer camps:

• Hickey had a breakout year in 2016. People can say it was an "over-rated" or "over-hyped" year but that's just opinion. The facts are that as a 25 year old (young for a ruckman) he stepped up his game in all facets, was finally injury free and took some big scalps. He linked up well around the ground and started taking marks/asserting himself on contests. I was rapt for the bloke, there's nothing more satisfying for supporters than seeing players have break-out years. The funny thing was, while most of us were rapt that Hickey had a break-out year, some supporters seemed more interested in reminding us that Longer was the better ruckman and had Hickey's measure instead of just enjoying seeing a player in Hickey do well.
• Pre-season 2017. With Longer now thankfully back from his concussion issues, the "Longer is better than Hickey" brigade started getting into the swing of things. We started hearing about training performances where Longer was on top, that the ruck battle was wide open etc etc. All pretty bemusing for the average fan like me who saw their performances over pre-season and Hickey's vastly superior (and praised by Richo) performance in the final pre-season game against Sydney and was wondering why a ruckman fresh from a break-out year previously and a top 10 B & F finish was being questioned.
• The 2017 season starts! Hickey, after having what many consider the best ruckman in the game, (Max Gawn's) measure in previous encounters, was finally beaten by Gawn. The team had a poor day but the Hickey sceptics were up and about and he copped it big time. Round 2 and Hickey answers his critics being the Saints best player in a close loss in Perth. Silence from the sceptics for a week. But not for much longer. While the team had wins the next 2 weeks, it was widely seen that Hickey lost his ruck battles and that the third man up rule was killing him. True or not, the movement against him was growing. He wasn't going to survive a loss and it came at the hands of a quarter of brilliance from Joel Selwood. Hickey carried the can for this and was "managed" the next week against a player he would have matched up very well on (McEvoy), denying him the chance to get an easy kill barely 3 weeks after being the saints best and having come up against some quality ruckmen.
• Now the fun really starts! Longer's in, and we win, and win big! And did Longer play a big part? "Of course he did", say the Longer backers. But hang on, wasn't his direct opponent (McEvoy) the oppositions best player and he didn't register a kick? "You see, the thing with Longer is that he does a lot of bullocking work and pressure acts that isn't captured in stats...." this becomes a common line trotted out over the coming weeks when people question Longer in a way that would make squealer from Animal Farm proud for those of you familiar with the book. When the midfield does well and we win "Look at how Longer gives them first use and pressures". When we lose and the midfield gets beaten "we've got a crap midfield we're going nowhere with a midfield like this, we need Kelly". But silence on Longer.
• Finally, after his best game for the club, Longer does a hamstring and Hickey comes back. Hickey, no doubt having suffered a loss in confidence from an injury and at being dropped, unsurprisingly has an awful game. And how do our "fans" react? Half of them almost gloat in an "I told you so" fashion. The other half stick the boots into the bloke when he is at his lowest point. Calls for de-listing, shooting, you name it. Unbelievable stuff from so-called supporters.

For what it's worth, I believe Hickey has been hurt by the 3rd man up rule. And I believe Longer has shown a fair bit in wins against the Giants and Richmond. But the main thing is, I want both to go out there and kill it every week they pull on the jumper of the club I love.

One thing is for certain: this Longer/Hickey thing has brought out the worst side of our supporter base, there's no doubt about it.

So by having an opinion and wanting the best ruckman in our side i am a horrible supporter? Turn it up.
Ive got nothing against Hickey, I just don't rate him. If you don't like supporters giving their opinions on players maybe you shouldn't be reading Internet forums?

 

[plugger66]

So by having an opinion and wanting the best ruckman in our side i am a horrible supporter? Turn it up.
Ive got nothing against Hickey, I just don't rate him. If you don't like supporters giving their opinions on players maybe you shouldn't be reading Internet forums?

Nothing wrong with an opinion. Hockey was terrible Friday night. Lost all confidence. Nothing to do with rule changes or him not being big enough. All to do with confidence. What annoys me though is it seems some longer fans were happy to see hickey fail. I'm no longer fan. Don't think he is very good but every time he plays I want him to play well because I follow the saints not barrack against a player.

Anyway we now have 2 ruckman worth very little. Last year we had one late first rounder. The club haven't handled the situation very well at all


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[pebblesofsand]

"Hockey was terrible Friday night."

No he was terrible all the time - Washington is the perfect place for the biggest leaner we've ever seen!!!

 

[#gosaintas]

Nothing wrong with an opinion. Hockey was terrible Friday night. Lost all confidence. Nothing to do with rule changes or him not being big enough. All to do with confidence. What annoys me though is it seems some longer fans were happy to see hickey fail. I'm no longer fan. Don't think he is very good but every time he plays I want him to play well because I follow the saints not barrack against a player.

Anyway we now have 2 ruckman worth very little. Last year we had one late first rounder. The club haven't handled the situation very well at all


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Are you saying Longer is worth very little? He would have good currency if the club was silly enough to trade him.

 

[plugger66]

"Hockey was terrible Friday night."

No he was terrible all the time - Washington is the perfect place for the biggest leaner we've ever seen!!!

Yep terrible last season. Love to see what you said about him last season. Bet it wasn't what you said now and don't give us the third man up rubbish. That had nothing to do with his pathetic play. Its all down to confidence. He has none so this situation hasn't been managed well.

 

[plugger66]

Are you saying Longer is worth very little? He would have good currency if the club was silly enough to trade him.

Early to mid second rounder. Rucking is changing. Clubs want players who can hit the ball but also impact around the ground. Why do you think short people do the second ruckwork now? All I know is Hickey had more value last year than either he or Longer have this year. It was always going to turn to shit because they could never play together.

 

[#gosaintas]

Early to mid second rounder. Rucking is changing. Clubs want players who can hit the ball but also impact around the ground. Why do you think short people do the second ruckwork now? All I know is Hickey had more value last year than either he or Longer have this year. It was always going to turn to shit because they could never play together.

I don't think it has turned to shit. Longer is fast becoming an excellent ruckman. I have no idea what's happened to Hickey but if he's too soft to fight for his spot then we flick him. I don't understand why he gets skinnier every year. Anyway, he's shown that he's finished. Can't play well for Sandringham. Turned in the worst performance I can remember by a ruckman for StKilda. Holmes has gone past him and he's not up to scratch. Longer is the man and Hickey needs to be traded or delisted.

 

[Glen Buterol]

Nothing wrong with an opinion. Hockey was terrible Friday night. Lost all confidence. Nothing to do with rule changes or him not being big enough. All to do with confidence. What annoys me though is it seems some longer fans were happy to see hickey fail. I'm no longer fan. Don't think he is very good but every time he plays I want him to play well because I follow the saints not barrack against a player.

Anyway we now have 2 ruckman worth very little. Last year we had one late first rounder. The club haven't handled the situation very well at all


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm certainly not happy to see Hickey fail just to be justified in my opinion on this debate & that's mainly because his trade value is dropping by the minute & Friday's game will have it at an all time low.

As I've said on many occasions, Longer in the team needs to be looked at as a (midfield) collective not simply Longer stats vs Hickey stats. This year has proven that our midfield operates better with Longer in the team.

Another thing I've constantly brought up is using stats eg marks & disposals to suit your argument suggests you are not watching the game. You may have your eyes on the game but not actually processing the most important components of a player. Longer is of the Mumford mold of ruckman. He bashes, crashes, gets the ball going our way not only from taps but by bulldozing everything in front of him. It's the little things (that are actually big in the scheme) like blocking, tackling, smothering, not being pushed aside, creating space, creating avenues for our mids to run thru, ect. that make him one of the most important components of our midfield (& team).

I suspect if you asked our players who they would prefer to play with they would overwhelmingly say Longer. Just assumption on my part but there's enough evidence to suggest this is the case. The players no doubt in my mind would prefer to have an absolute warrior who goes to war, shows & displays aggression at the opposition & leads the way. Not a guy like Hickey that lacks aggression & is timid at the contest. Longer lacks skill but he displays the most important quality that a ruckman should - aggression (& heart).

I couldn't give a rats if he only gets 8 disposals & 1 mark a game because he clearly makes our team as a collective better. I will go as far as saying that along with two other absentees from Friday night (Membrey & Webster) he is one of our most important players going forward & we will not even entertain trades for him.

 

[Glen Buterol]

Oh come on man, I nearly always agree with everything you write but Jeezus, Longer can make the ruck a shit fight but he's a limited shit truck. Hickey was just 10,000 times worse than a shit truck last night. We don't have a very good ruck division, what you wrote above makes him sound like Mumford bred with Naitanui.

Funny post. Seriously, it made me lol & im not being a smartarse. Mumford bred Natanui lmao. I reckon you are seriously under rating Billy, gringo.

 

[lewdogs]

The bagging out of Hickey by so called supporters is pathetic. The guy has busted a gut for the Saints; has a bad game and people start going on about how shit he is like it's a celebration. It does nothing to help the player or the club. Sure it's an internet forum but surely as a supporter forum we could show support for our players when they're down but no, many see that as the time to sink the boot in the most.

 

[plugger66]

I'm certainly not happy to see Hickey fail just to be justified in my opinion on this debate & that's mainly because his trade value is dropping by the minute & Friday's game will have it at an all time low.

As I've said on many occasions, Longer in the team needs to be looked at as a (midfield) collective not simply Longer stats vs Hickey stats. This year has proven that our midfield operates better with Longer in the team.

Another thing I've constantly brought up is using stats eg marks & disposals to suit your argument suggests you are not watching the game. You may have your eyes on the game but not actually processing the most important components of a player. Longer is of the Mumford mold of ruckman. He bashes, crashes, gets the ball going our way not only from taps but by bulldozing everything in front of him. It's the little things (that are actually big in the scheme) like blocking, tackling, smothering, not being pushed aside, creating space, creating avenues for our mids to run thru, ect. that make him one of the most important components of our midfield (& team).

I suspect if you asked our players who they would prefer to play with they would overwhelmingly say Longer. Just assumption on my part but there's enough evidence to suggest this is the case. The players no doubt in my mind would prefer to have an absolute warrior who goes to war, shows & displays aggression at the opposition & leads the way. Not a guy like Hickey that lacks aggression & is timid at the contest. Longer lacks skill but he displays the most important quality that a ruckman should - aggression (& heart).

I couldn't give a rats if he only gets 8 disposals & 1 mark a game because he clearly makes our team as a collective better. I will go as far as saying that along with two other absentees from Friday night (Membrey & Webster) he is one of our most important players going forward & we will not even entertain trades for him.

I wont bother insulting you about not watching the game. I can assure you I watch every game very closely. I have an opinion about what is a good ruckman. It differs from yours. My opinion is the same for my local club as well. I can see what Longer does. I see it very well. I want more in the rucks than that. You obviously don't and that's fine. By the way I have asked one mid who he would rather ruck and he said Hickey. That was before Friday night. That proves nothing though as 10 others may say Longer. And if we are a better unit under Longer than that makes this year very disappointing considering our recruits as well as we look like we will win about the same games. Anyway please don't tell I'm not watching the game. I suggest we have very ordinary rucks but luckily they are having less and less impact on games.