High Court Citizenship case

[ferball]

I am unaware of the push for an ethnic indigenous state; but I would give it consideration if they wanted one, and made laws like this for themselves.

There are multiple indigenous states in Australia with limited autonomy already. It's very limited but none the less it's there. A treaty would be more useful tho. The whole point of a treaty is that it will enable things like the deportation of these two if it's negotiated properly.

 

[Power Raid]

Prove it.

Legal definitions of Aboriginality | ALRC

Early definitions36.11 The legal historian, John McCorquodale, has reported that since the time of white settlement, governments have used no less than 67 classifications, descriptions or definitions to determine who is an Aboriginal person.[9]36.12 The ALRC discussed the definition of an...

www.alrc.gov.au

 

[ferball]

Legal definitions of Aboriginality | ALRC

Early definitions36.11 The legal historian, John McCorquodale, has reported that since the time of white settlement, governments have used no less than 67 classifications, descriptions or definitions to determine who is an Aboriginal person.[9]36.12 The ALRC discussed the definition of an...

www.alrc.gov.au

Explain how that proves it using lay mans terms.

(I've just read it and disagree with you. With basically one potential exception which is essentially adoption.)

 

[Sainteric]

Prove it.

We have told you how a land council recognised aboriginality. What is there to prove?

 

[Power Raid]

Explain how that proves it using lay mans terms.

(I've just read it and disagree with you. With basically one potential exception which is essentially adoption.)

Now you are changing the goal posts

Please act in good faith

 

[Bomberboyokay]

Now you are changing the goal posts

Please act in good faith

hypocrisy.gif

 

[Bomberboyokay]

You supported Corbyn, enough said eh?

Not pertinent.

 

[HairyO]

Dusty's dad just had to put some concealer on his neck tattoo which states he belongs to a Maori tribe. Then he was accepted as a Taswegian Aborigine.

 

[Rob R]

Dustys dad is a great example of the joke aboriginality has become. Moves here at 20 in 89, gets deported in Apr 16, suddenly becomes aboriginal during his appeals....

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[ferball]

Now you are changing the goal posts

Please act in good faith

Unless I'm wrong..

That doesn't prove your point, except in one limited circumstance which relates to adoption. Given adoption is also a western legal process that gives someone without a genetic connection access to the benefits of that genetic connection and legal recognition of that access. Then technically you don't need dna however you do need acceptance as a member of a family with the same rights and responsibilities.

So technically, in very limited circumstances, the legal definition of aboriginality doesn't depend on dna, but only if the person without the genetic connection has effectively been adopted into a community (indigenous communities are also families, most indigenous people know exactly what their relationship to everyone else in their mob.)

Other wise descent is a fundamental part of it.

If Im wrong can you explain why in laymans terms?

(And how is that shifting the goal posts?)

 

[ferball]

We have told you how a land council recognised aboriginality. What is there to prove?

Sorry ... When did you tell me that?

 

[Balls In]

Whatever happened to DNA tests?

 

[Power Raid]

Unless I'm wrong..

That doesn't prove your point, except in one limited circumstance which relates to adoption. Given adoption is also a western legal process that gives someone without a genetic connection access to the benefits of that genetic connection and legal recognition of that access. Then technically you don't need dna however you do need acceptance as a member of a family with the same rights and responsibilities.

So technically, in very limited circumstances, the legal definition of aboriginality doesn't depend on dna, but only if the person without the genetic connection has effectively been adopted into a community (indigenous communities are also families, most indigenous people know exactly what their relationship to everyone else in their mob.)

Other wise descent is a fundamental part of it.

If Im wrong can you explain why in laymans terms?

(And how is that shifting the goal posts?)

Please re read your initial post and then re read the government link presented

 

[ferball]

Please re read your initial post and then re read the government link presented

What, for the third time?

If you cbf giving me a straight answer you must be full of it.

 

[Sainteric]

Not pertinent.
[/QUO

Once you slide down the slope, cross that line and support people like Corbyn its extremely difficult to dig yourself out.

 

[Mofra]

Dustys dad is a great example of the joke aboriginality has become. Moves here at 20 in 89, gets deported in Apr 16, suddenly becomes aboriginal during his appeals....

He still has to prove his aboriginality doesn't he?
I'm not sure how he does that if he moved here at age 20 - he wouldn't have been accepted by a mob under the authority of a recognised elder which has the been the rough working definition for some time.

It would be incumbent on Dusty's dad to fulfil his claims rather than a 'balance of probability' proposition.

 

[Freo Big Fella]

I can't say I'm a massive fan of this decision, but the growing number of those on the lunatic right using it to push for a full-blown US-style politicisation of High Court appointments is bizarre.

NoCookies | The Australian

www.theaustralian.com.au

 

[Ron The Bear]

I can't say I'm a massive fan of this decision, but the growing number of those on the lunatic right using it to push for a full-blown US-style politicisation of High Court appointments is bizarre.

I don't necessarily support that, but the judiciary has shifted too far in favour of criminals' rights for my liking and I believe reform is needed.

 

[Ron The Bear]

He still has to prove his aboriginality doesn't he?
I'm not sure how he does that if he moved here at age 20 - he wouldn't have been accepted by a mob under the authority of a recognised elder which has the been the rough working definition for some time.

It would be incumbent on Dusty's dad to fulfil his claims rather than a 'balance of probability' proposition.

He has the certification signed by Aboriginal elders in Tasmania and has had it since 2016. It states he is recognised as a member of the Manegin Aboriginal community. He previously had different certification from South Australia but it was (apparently) withdrawn by the Aboriginal body under pressure from Dutton's department.

The Tasmanian mob was deregistered in 2018 so it's a question of whether the certification is still legally valid. The potential for "shopping around" to gain this certification has been touched on but nobody is game to really call it out.

The situation was resolved but the recent High Court decision has left the door ajar.

 

[Power Raid]

He still has to prove his aboriginality doesn't he?
I'm not sure how he does that if he moved here at age 20 - he wouldn't have been accepted by a mob under the authority of a recognised elder which has the been the rough working definition for some time.

It would be incumbent on Dusty's dad to fulfil his claims rather than a 'balance of probability' proposition.

find a sympathetic aboriginal community, or pay a would be sympathetic aboriginal community, and suddenly anyone can be aboriginal

 

[Mofra]

find a sympathetic aboriginal community, or pay a would be sympathetic aboriginal community, and suddenly anyone can be aboriginal

Any evidence of that? The mobs I've known wouldn't even consider anything like that.

 

[Sainteric]

There are multiple indigenous states in Australia with limited autonomy already. It's very limited but none the less it's there. A treaty would be more useful tho. The whole point of a treaty is that it will enable things like the deportation of these two if it's negotiated properly.

One of the judgements clearly outlined how it can be done, apparently the govt might introduce the required legislation. No need for a treaty for that.

 

[Rob R]

He still has to prove his aboriginality doesn't he?
I'm not sure how he does that if he moved here at age 20 - he wouldn't have been accepted by a mob under the authority of a recognised elder which has the been the rough working definition for some time.

It would be incumbent on Dusty's dad to fulfil his claims rather than a 'balance of probability' proposition.

He was accepted in 2016 (after deportation) by a Tasmanian aborignal council rep (who if the photos and media stories are correct has a very distant aborignal heritage himself and has a very interesting past).

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[Ron The Bear]

Any evidence of that? The mobs I've known wouldn't even consider anything like that.

Been hinted at.

One of Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull's top indigenous advisors, Warren Mundine, thinks they are too easy to get and a higher standard of evidence is needed.

'You just need to get an Aboriginal community to sign off the confirmation of Aboriginality and Bob's your uncle, off you can go,' he said.

https://es-es.facebook.com/UMCQld/p...ate-of-aboriginality-shanes/1557511564276676/

Tasmanian Aboriginal Centre chief executive Heather Sculthorpe said his claims were “astonishing”.

She said she was aware of Tasmanian groups issuing certificates of Aboriginality for money.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/v...t/news-story/7fa0b6297ebc3776db04d548766ce1a3

 

[Balls In]

Any evidence of that? The mobs I've known wouldn't even consider anything like that.

What a crazy ****ed up world we live. How can anyone decide if someone else is indigenous or not. You either are or you aren't. Same as gender.