Hill

[prattsta]

We for whatever reason have dropped off noticeably in this area - it pisses me off.

I think a lot of it comes down to the selection table. When you're worrying about you're own skin, you play selfish footy.

 

[Moo]

Closing out is when your opponent has the ball and you have to make ground. If you run at them full pace, any agile player will use your pace to get around you.

Closing out is when you close but in a way that you keep them in front of you, basically close fast but stagger step the last metre or so, so you can read them.

Davis went around Crowley on 3 separate occasions - Crowls compensates for his lack of pace by going full speed. It is false economy and we would be better served by forcing (Leon in this case) to break wider and around Crowley. By over committing - Crowley is past the contest (only useful on an immediate turnover) and Leon is through, on a path where he is going directly to where he wishes and has a numerical advantage.

It is poor skills, perhaps Bevo can come down and teach em.

 

[Moo]

I think a lot of it comes down to the selection table. When you're worrying about you're own skin, you play selfish footy.

Good point.

Would hope the team rules would mean selfish players would be overly active in this area.

It is pretty easy to measure. Hill does not block like he did in his first season which is puzzling.

I've got a basketball wired brain so it stands out like dogs gonads to me.

 

[prattsta]

LOL Bevo would be perfect. Footy players don't do that sort of stuff though Moo. Well, that's not true, not many footy players do, the likes of Clarke and Pendlebury do that stuff if you get my meaning.

It's just like the way they go for the ball when a player sells the dummy. It's just baffling in a sport that allows you to tackle and/or make body contact that you would ever go for a ball fake. Basic stuff IMO.

 

[prattsta]

Good point.

Would hope the team rules would mean selfish players would be overly active in this area.

It is pretty easy to measure.

I've got a basketball wired brain so it stands out like dogs gonads to me.

The problem is some players have been getting a free ride all season. Whilst other players would be omitted at the drop of a hat. In 2010 I reckon every player knew exactly where they stood; train hard, play well, work hard and get a game. In 2011 though? Not so much.

There was a lot of occasions on Friday night where a little bit more effort off the ball would've given the player with the ball and extra half a second. When you're under as much pressure as we were on Friday night, an extra half a second is a hell of a lot.

 

[Moo]

LOL Bevo would be perfect. Footy players don't do that sort of stuff though Moo. Well, that's not true, not many footy players do, the likes of Clarke and Pendlebury do that stuff if you get my meaning.

It's just like the way they go for the ball when a player sells the dummy. It's just baffling in a sport that allows you to tackle and/or make body contact that you would ever go for a ball fake. Basic stuff IMO.

Hips, hips, hips.

Anyway back to the basketball thread - dammit the club I support lost the GF

 

[Sigwald]

It is pretty easy to measure. Hill does not block like he did in his first season which is puzzling.

I think you're completely right, Moo. An example of how important it is: one Hill block allowed Fyfe to kick that miracle goal against West Coast. Although even in that passage, I think Ibbotson fails to hinder their #13 enough; letting him run straight past at Fyfe, making Hill do a double block.

[YOUTUBE]A0XPiHjEhW0[/YOUTUBE]

 

[hit_the_post]

He is has freakish athletic ability. He was literally bouncing upon receiving handballs from what i could see!

 

[Chops_a_must]

O ohhhh.

Brades and shephearding are like brake fluid and car paint: Mortal enemies.

 

[IAMJUNGLEMUFFIN]

We don't have the old hands in our team layng blocks and shepherding because they never learned it when they themselves were young.

It's a culture thing.

Some of the young fellas like Fyfe and Suban do it, so maybe that's turning.

 

[strobe00]

I think you're completely right, Moo. An example of how important it is: one Hill block allowed Fyfe to kick that miracle goal against West Coast. Although even in that passage, I think Ibbotson fails to hinder their #13 enough; letting him run straight past at Fyfe, making Hill do a double block.

[youtube]A0XPiHjEhW0[/youtube]

Nice illustration. I think you're being nice to Ibbo here though. The only hindrance he offered was to look in Shuey's direction before allowing him to run straight past.

Perfect training video. What not to do, quickly followed by what to do. As a second look... I think he actually slowed down so that Shuey wouldn't hit him on the way through? WTF? Brain fart.

 

[IAMJUNGLEMUFFIN]

Nice illustration. I think you're being nice to Ibbo here though. The only hindrance he offered was to look in Shuey's direction before allowing him to run straight past.

Perfect training video. What not to do, quickly followed by what to do. As a second look... I think he actually slowed down so that Shuey wouldn't hit him on the way through? WTF? Brain fart.

Shuey was a non factor in that piece of play. Ibbo pulled up before Fyfe fumbled the ball, as did Hill, as did Lower. The only difference is Hill was still in a position to impact the play, while the other two weren't.

I'm all for shepherding, but I think the point is only there in principle

Hill double block? Lol. He got knocked on his arse by Rosa and bounced onto Shuey. Even Bradbury wouldn't claim that.

 

[Belnakor]

mate you must be watching different footage to me. Shuey runs right past Ibbo.

 

[Sigwald]

Shuey was a non factor in that piece of play. Ibbo pulled up before Fyfe fumbled the ball, as did Hill, as did Lower. The only difference is Hill was still in a position to impact the play, while the other two weren't.

We all see things differently of course, but I hope that next time Ibbo finds himself in such a situation, he would at least hinder Shuey in stead of actively stopping to let him run by.

Here's the moment he pulls up:

Afterwards Shuey doesn't even need top break stride to go after Fyfe. Since it needs a Hill block (whether he used the shove from Rosa to launch himself into Shuey or not) to stop him getting at Fyfe, I do believe he could have made an impact on the play.

Regardless, when in doubt go for the safe option, which in this case for Ibbo would have been a legal block on Shuey, in my opinion. Or at least make Shuey run around him.

Also, I don't want to just bash Ibbo, because almost all of them do it. Even Pav for all his size could get in the way of the opposition more often.

 

[estibador]

Shuey was a non factor in that piece of play.

He should have been a non factor - because Ibbo should have put him on his arse as he ran past.

I wish you guys hadn't brought that to my attention now. It's depressing to think how poorly drilled we look as a team unit these days. And sadly I don't have a hell of a lot of faith that Harves can rectify it any more.

 

[IAMJUNGLEMUFFIN]

mate you must be watching different footage to me. Shuey runs right past Ibbo.

And that's all he does. No impact on the play and no perceived pressure.

Like I said, I get a hardon for shepherding, but I think there are plenty of better examples you could have used. You can just as easily point the finger at Lower there, except he isn't the fugitive goat, while Ibbo is.

Noone noticed it until now because it's not a blatant piece of bad play. It's nit picking at best.

He should have been a non factor - because Ibbo should have put him on his arse as he ran past.

I wish you guys hadn't brought that to my attention now. It's depressing to think how poorly drilled we look as a team unit these days. And sadly I don't have a hell of a lot of faith that Harves can rectify it any more.

Ideally he would have gone full tilt to make any contact on Shuey, but in the end it doesn't matter, Shuey was a non issue. Why not attribute it to good judgement? The way he pulled up also looks like he was called out of it by Fyfe, if people want to continue with over analysing.

There are a million examples of bludging by our guys, why not pick one worth whinging about?

 

[estibador]

That's why they call them 1%ers - because they're all the minor little things you do that separate the great teams from the also rans.

There's no way a Collingwood or Geelong player would just let an opponent stroll past them like that while their teammate was trying to pick up the ball. The fact that Shuey didn't end up having an impact on the play is irrelevant, all that matters is he could have.

The fact that Ibbo actually pulled up to avoid making contact is what makes it so bad. I could understand if Shuey had run straight past him because he didn't realise he was there, but to actually consciously try to stay out of his way shows there's something wrong with the mindset of our group. A block like that should be second nature for a properly drilled team.

 

[IAMJUNGLEMUFFIN]

I could have shagged a hot chick once, all that matters is I didn't.

We're disagreeing over a hypothetical. Play on.

 

[estibador]

There are a million examples of bludging by our guys...

And that's the problem.

No one is isolating this one example as some massive game turning error. The problem is it's symptomatic of a greater malaise inherent in our team play.

 

[Sigwald]

A You can just as easily point the finger at Lower there, except he isn't the fugitive goat, while Ibbo is.

Noone noticed it until now because it's not a blatant piece of bad play. It's nit picking at best.

I don't mind having a difference of opinion, but I would like to stress that the fact that it is Ibbo has nothing to do with my discontent. I think Ibbo often is doing a better job than we give him credit for. And have as far as I know not participated in any lynchings on this board.

Don't forget that I also posted it to highlight the positive effect of the block(s) Hill did that allowed Fyfe to score. That goal takes all of the attention. It was only when I actually looked for the Hill block, that I noticed the other two. Ibbo, in my opinion, was more clear cut since he's closer to the play and Lower's man is already on the inside. So I added it as an example of the little things we still struggle with. Not to highlight a blatant piece of bad play.

 

[strobe00]

Don't forget that I also posted it to highlight the positive effect of the block(s) Hill did that allowed Fyfe to score. That goal takes all of the attention. It was only when I actually looked for the Hill block, that I noticed the other two. Ibbo, in my opinion, was more clear cut since he's closer to the play and Lower's man is already on the inside. So I added it as an example of the little things we still struggle with. Not to highlight a blatant piece of bad play.

I'm not bashing Ibbo here. The point is that we need to focus on this and do better. All Ibbo needed to do was to keep his same pace to lay a block and ensure Fyfe had space. He took a half step. The half step happened because he got caught ball watching, rather than seeing what else he could do in terms of 1%ers. He isn't even looking at Shuey as he runs past. There is no way in hell that Lower was close enough to do anything to Shuey, so not fair to point him out in this case. I'm sure he's done the same at times as well, so not defending him in particular.

This isn't a Lower vs Hill vs Ibbo thing, it's just a handy example of a time that we could have done the team thing better. Much as it makes me sick, the Weagles actually do this pretty well.

 

[Clay Davis]

And that's the problem.

No one is isolating this one example as some massive game turning error. The problem is it's symptomatic of a greater malaise inherent in our team play.

Yeah, I thought it was a pretty good example of how the younger brigade support each other and the more mature players couldn't give a shit.

 

[Moo]

Muffin- Ibbo should have looked to impact a chaser, especially in the 50.

It is not about the result, results come when everyone embraces the rules. If a missed block does not result in a tackle/turn over/pressure - it is luck and I would presume a asst coach would make this a teaching point i.e don't watch the play impact the play wherever possible.

It is not natural for Ibbo and I accept this. We do it coming out of the back 50 all the time ....you need 3 things control, time and options.

Once a player releases - a good footballer needs to either be making himself an option, impeding an opponent or communicating.

My concern is that we have dropped off noticeably in this area.