Hille & Laycock >> Murphy, Gibbs, Cloke

[KING-JAMES]

You would hardly call Ackland a ruckman, wouldnt you?

He still can have a really good game, he just needs to have them more often and more consistant.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

I wonder if Murphs poor time has anything to do with him not being able to break a tag.

 

[diesel1]

I wonder if Murphs poor time has anything to do with him not being able to break a tag.

Do you know what's the best reason we recruiting Judd? Its not that he can turn games inside out, or win games off his own boot, its that hopefully his running ability rubs off on the kids like Murphy and Gibbs.

 

[Burzum]

hmmm, all I'll add is that over the last 10 years, our best performer around the 'tan or PP has been Mark Bolton...

Close thread.

 

[Silvagnis]

I wonder if Murphs poor time has anything to do with him not being able to break a tag.

Didn't Murphy give Stenglein a touch up in Perth last year when Stevens wasn't out injured?

 

[tigerbrent17]

u don't even know if they're running the exact same course---carlton's run may have some variation [i.e extra stretch of grassland] which makes any worthwhile comparison a waste of time--SO WHY 4 PAGES OF THIS CRAP?

 

[mjonc]

I also found that interesting, surely that should tell you something. Because it's telling me that Carlton arent putting the hard yards during the offbreak. Don't worry Windows, there are alot of one eyed Carlton supporters on this board, and they would jump at you like seaguls on bread crumbs if you pick up something bad about Carlton.

You can all give Stevens the benifit of the doubt but we all know he has ballloned. Jetta scraped a whole minute of his previous time trial, Monfries finished top 4 in the run, Houli looks much more trim then last year. For what its telling me, for Hille and Laycock, both pure ruckmen, beating Murphy and Gibbs is worrying me abit.

I know your going to bring up chambers and Prenda again, but at the end of the day if your pure midfielders should be a far more supiror runners then ruckmen and players need to be cautious of their weight over the break.

oh dear, some people just don't get it

 

[bomberstomake8]

speed is overrated.

would you prefer Daniel Wells over Greg Williams?

It's a player's ability to find the ball and what they do with it not what you clock around Princess Park at the beginning of bloody cricket season!

The two big fellas at Esendon would need to post good times, they'd be on their last chance this year, surely.

i doubt that, hille could be on his last chance... but then again how many ruckmen are there out there as good as him.. laycock is coming along just nicely had a fewgames this year where he dominated... vs melbourne for example... he is still young for a ruckmen and there is no chance he will be delisted..

i think windows and deisel are reading too much into it, its a time trial in november i mean they have another 3 or so months to get high fitness levels.. this doesnt really show much. However i am impressed at the players who performed well for the bombers such as hocking, monfries, houli.. the players we will look to solve a few of our midfeild worries..

 

[Jimthegreat]

haha

if that was the case then we might as well see if we can put Craig Mottram on the rookie list!!!

Rookie list? He runs 3.2km in right on 8 minutes. We'd put him straight in the side and make him captain!!!

 

[Beloved]

No matter how fast Laycock runs, his name is still amusing

 

[marcmurphy3]

Bluesgirl (on CSC) in her training report for the 9th said this which really disappointed me,

" This is from my sister "Stevo is a choch"... meaning his a bit beefy. He was miles behind the boys... even Eddie Betts."

People can blame the injury but in reality there is no excuse for Stevens turning up in this shape. He has been able to do full running training for months.

He will probably get fitter as the PS goes on, but even so, it is disappointing that a captaincy candidate turns up like this.

 

[len_jet]

at the end of the day they run 10-15kms in a match so what does 3.2km of continuour running have to do with how they will fair over 10-15kms?

Stretch that 3.2km over say 5-7kms and see who wins, I bet the big boys suffer plenty between the 4-5km range...

stupid thread

but I agree... Laycock hilarious along with Swallow

 

[smithos]

Just had a crack at Princes Park for the first time. I did it in 11:30 pretty comfortably, so I suspect some of our guys were just knocking out the cobwebs.

 

[windows]

Crikey I've copped a pasting for this thread and fair enough too. Probably the inflamatory "NOT GOOD ENOUGH" went a bit far and I was being overly harsh on the youngsters but I was trying to generate a bit of debate. In any event, just a few points:

1. they do a time trial for a reason. It isn't MEANINGLESS or else they wouldn't do it. It is used to benchmark their fitness against themselves and against their peers. The fact that plenty of good athletes make poor footballers is not the point. The point is, they time trial for a reason, they time trial to get indications of progress, and the indications for Murph and Gibbs were just not good in terms of what they've done in their off seasons, and what their prospects are for long stints of gut busting midfield running next year. I agree, they will improve, but not a good start.
2. the original reason for generating this thread was about Cloke but I just wasn't clear enough about that. Point was: there was plenty of discussion generated about the time of Cloke and as if that time pointed to him having a great season. I wanted to point out that his time only looked good because it was being compared to the rather ordinary times of Gibbs and Murphy.
3. I agree it is almost certain their times will improve. But I'd prefer they turned up in pretty good shape at the start of the pre-season. Pointing out that Laycock and Hille are probably playing for their careers whereas Gibbs and Murphy are not simply reinforces the concern I have that for whatever reason we are generating a culture of mediocrity. Near enough is good enough. We were frigging woeful this year. Murphy and Gibbs did NOT have the years we expected or hoped of them. I am a massive fan of both of theirs but the issue I had with their times was that were I a player like them coming off a mediocre underwhelming year like they did I would have come back benching PBs in the gym (looks like Murph probably has), doing plenty of sprint work (Gibbs seems to have picked up his pace) BUT I'd also be in ripping aerobic condition because it is an essential ingredient in a midfielder's makeup.

 

[windows]

You idiot. Winning premierships is not about how fast you can run around the ground in November!

Ridiculous post from a ridiculous poster....

Charming. I am an idiot and a 'ridiculous poster'? Agree I fail to follow the group think often displayed by some on this forum and say "yay Bentick is a champ, Russell is unreal etc etc"? I've been called stupid plenty of times. Like the time I said we should call Whitnall's bluff on his contract demands a few years back. I've also been lambasted for being critical of Russell, speaking poorly of Jesse Smith's ability to play AFL and for daring to suggest I might prefer Cotchin over Kreuzer. I wouldn't claim to be terribly accurate all the time, but sometimes I think some things I've written have proven somewhat less than ridiculous.

I think a bit of self-critique is healthy. And I'm not sure the club is where it needs to be yet. It has improved in a lot of areas. But therein lies the rub as they say. We could 'settle' for improvement, or we could go for broke. We could say "we are heaps better than we used to be" or we could say "we still aren't good enough". I happen to suspect our attitude is still not right. I'd just prefer guys turning out in ripping shape, and then building on it at the start of a pre-season. Actually I think the easiest thing those young guys could have done is get themselves in tip top aerobic shape before pre-season. They've had 2 months to do that. Then their pre-seasons could have focused on building speed and power and so on. Now they have to try and do both at the same time.

 

[whytee]

Hille and Laycock did 11'26 around Princes Park yesterday. So much for the "amazing" effort of Cameron Cloke (11'46"). And hate to bang on about a point but it puts Murphy (11'41") and Gibbs (12'03") to shame.

NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

Judd's not runnin yet

 

[hustla]

Murphy and Gibbs seem to have bulked up during their time off. It's all good and well to get a good time in the FIRST 3.2km run, but it isn't the most important thing. These 2 boys are 19/20 and 18 respectively. They played a full season (2nd season and 1st season respectively). Considering the circumstances, I'm not the slightest worried. I'll be worried if they can't improve on that time in the upcoming time trials.

 

[windows]

Bump....

Time to revisit this. "Its only November" has proven to flow through into March. Murph got 1 touch in the last quarter but was otherwise superb. However he didn't exactly do the hard running we need. He will need to do better. Gibbs had an average night at best and provided pretty much zero run and barely touched it at any point let alone the last quarter. Neither provide overlap running (ie: get the ball off half back, release, push forward and link up to get it again). Only Judd and Carrazzo do that consistently (Simpson maybe as well). It is no coincidence Judd and Carrazzo are easily our best runners around Optus.

I made a very valid point about our running ability, and particularly the running ability of our young stars and we were absolutely run off our legs on Thursday. The trend continues. Both Gibbs (in particular) and Murph need to do a lot of work on their aerobic ability. They are a long way off it. At the end of this year they should go on a trip together to do some altitude training for 4 weeks before the pre-season starts.

Gibbs also needs to find some courage. The courage to run when he is out of energy, and the courage to put his head over the ball EVERY TIME. And the courage to kick on his bloody left foot AT TRAINING (he has no left foot, and he needs to find one).

Now I will probably get belted again for this post. But both have the potential to be champions if only they don't accept mediocrity and I think hero worshipping them (as most Blues fans are at the moment) will not help them achieve that status.

 

[Beloved]

Did it matter?

I'd much rather Cloke, Murphy and Little Fish than Hill and Laycock, not being biased.

 

[drusswaylander]

Bump....

Time to revisit this. "Its only November" has proven to flow through into March. Murph got 1 touch in the last quarter but was otherwise superb. However he didn't exactly do the hard running we need. He will need to do better. Gibbs had an average night at best and provided pretty much zero run and barely touched it at any point let alone the last quarter. Neither provide overlap running (ie: get the ball off half back, release, push forward and link up to get it again). Only Judd and Carrazzo do that consistently (Simpson maybe as well). It is no coincidence Judd and Carrazzo are easily our best runners around Optus.

I made a very valid point about our running ability, and particularly the running ability of our young stars and we were absolutely run off our legs on Thursday. The trend continues. Both Gibbs (in particular) and Murph need to do a lot of work on their aerobic ability. They are a long way off it. At the end of this year they should go on a trip together to do some altitude training for 4 weeks before the pre-season starts.

Gibbs also needs to find some courage. The courage to run when he is out of energy, and the courage to put his head over the ball EVERY TIME. And the courage to kick on his bloody left foot AT TRAINING (he has no left foot, and he needs to find one).

Now I will probably get belted again for this post. But both have the potential to be champions if only they don't accept mediocrity and I think hero worshipping them (as most Blues fans are at the moment) will not help them achieve that status.

Just quietly I think you love getting belted

The world is full of sheep, but there are an awful lot of salmon as well

 

[thylacine60]

Did it matter?

I'd much rather Cloke, Murphy and Little Fish than Hill and Laycock, not being biased.

Way to miss the point by 1000 miles. I completely agree with Windows. Said it Thursday night - Gibbs needs to develop the ability to gut-run. He is too soft and frankly pretty lazy. Murph too has continually been accused of loafing at training.