Analysis Derek Hine

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Pedro said:
Mathieson is one I'm quite glad we bypassed. One of the most dislikable blokes I've seen on the footy field
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Very Punchable
 
Finnishpie said:
Really? I'm amazed neither of the WA clubs would offer anything.
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I think the Eagles were pretty stocked in the KPD dept and Freo had put their eggs in the Hamling basket by the time Marsh requested a trade. He might get picked as a mid this year by one of the WA teams in the rookie draft.
 

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regpies said:
We have traded our first round pick 5 of the last 10yrs. Plus during that time GWS and GC dominated the 1st rds. Kind of hard to come up with draft gold in that situation.
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Sure, you can't use picks that you don't have.

But, between selecting Chris Dawes in 2006 and selecting Sam McLarty in 2016, we used 23 picks in the top 60 picks of the various national drafts. We selected 1 key position player being Moore who was a father son selection.

On top of that, we have traded away Dawes, Brown and Cloke. In my opinion all of these were correct decisions in isolation but given the issues with Reid's body, one would have hoped that they would have been made alongside a well thought out succession plan through the draft. It is no accident that our cupboard is bare.

We have a lack of decent key position players on our list due to terrible list management and draft planning.
 
This may have already been discussed somewhere else here, but I'm just watching Footy Classified from last night and Caro is saying that the Bulldogs have put off contract negotiations with their list manager, Jason McCartney, until after the trade period.

Any chance we'd be into him if Hine was moved on?
 
Boris the Contradiction said:
Sure, you can't use picks that you don't have.

But, between selecting Chris Dawes in 2006 and selecting Sam McLarty in 2016, we used 23 picks in the top 60 picks of the various national drafts. We selected 1 key position player being Moore who was a father son selection.

On top of that, we have traded away Dawes, Brown and Cloke. In my opinion all of these were correct decisions in isolation but given the issues with Reid's body, one would have hoped that they would have been made alongside a well thought out succession plan through the draft. It is no accident that our cupboard is bare.

We have a lack of decent key position players on our list due to terrible list management and draft planning.
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I agree. Management isn't just about individual decisions, it's about planning. We just haven't planned our KPPs well. The proof has to be in the pudding. Imagine if Peter Moore's kid hadn't turned out be be such a talent.

I don't think it means Hine is an abject failure and should be jettisoned as he's clearly an astute judge of talent. But something has been amiss.

I'm hopeful that we will turn it around starting this year. Better late than never I guess.
 
jjsmitty8 said:
This may have already been discussed somewhere else here, but I'm just watching Footy Classified from last night and Caro is saying that the Bulldogs have put off contract negotiations with their list manager, Jason McCartney, until after the trade period.

Any chance we'd be into him if Hine was moved on?
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Not sure why we'd want him given the Dogs have neglected their KPF dept as much as us over the years. A godfather deal for that potato Boyd and bringing in Cloke aren't inspiring list management decisions TBH.
 
Boris the Contradiction said:
Our drafting has been diabolical since the Reid/Dawes/Brown draft.

We have picked up some good players, sure, but the planning has been nonexistent. Too many similar types. Other than Moore who was a free hit father son choice, I don't think we picked a KPP in the first three rounds of the main draft in ten years. We have no key position players. I wonder how that happened....
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They left the club...Cloke, Brown, Dawes...now White.
Didn't work out...Gault, Richmond, Wyatt, Shae Mc, Frost, Paine.
Potential on list...McLarty, McCarthy, Cox, Schade

Yes, we are short of KPP talent.
Should have recruited, traded in, free agency at least 1 more high end talent (2 meter Peter for example).
Has to be our major focus this October/November.
 
Boris the Contradiction said:
Sure, you can't use picks that you don't have.

But, between selecting Chris Dawes in 2006 and selecting Sam McLarty in 2016, we used 23 picks in the top 60 picks of the various national drafts. We selected 1 key position player being Moore who was a father son selection.

On top of that, we have traded away Dawes, Brown and Cloke. In my opinion all of these were correct decisions in isolation but given the issues with Reid's body, one would have hoped that they would have been made alongside a well thought out succession plan through the draft. It is no accident that our cupboard is bare.

We have a lack of decent key position players on our list due to terrible list management and draft planning.
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I think our list position is definitely more by accident than design. But that doesn't excuse the lack of KPP drafting over the last 5-6 years. I've had KPP developing depth as a draft priority for much of that time.

Trading in options hasn't worked either. White was serviceable but provided pretty much what you'd expect, Lynch was handy but never reached the heights of his time at the Weagles, never the same after he broke his leg at VFL level. Dunn has been handy. Gault and Marsh were both relatively late picks. Gault never developed as you'd like, Marsh's departure really hurt.
 
Dynamics said:
I agree. Management isn't just about individual decisions, it's about planning. We just haven't planned our KPPs well. The proof has to be in the pudding. Imagine if Peter Moore's kid hadn't turned out be be such a talent.

I don't think it means Hine is an abject failure and should be jettisoned as he's clearly an astute judge of talent. But something has been amiss.

I'm hopeful that we will turn it around starting this year. Better late than never I guess.
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But that would have changed our entire draft strategy. It's 1 thing to grab DeGoey because we know we've got Moore, another entirely if Moore wasn't on offer. My biggest disappointments from that draft wasn't that we overlooked 2MP, it was that the Doggies bid on Moore forcing our hand. Would have been ideal to have been able to match a bid with later picks freeing up the Moore pick to grab Lever.
 
MyManLynch said:
They left the club...Cloke, Brown, Dawes...now White.
Didn't work out...Gault, Richmond, Wyatt, Shae Mc, Frost, Paine.
Potential on list...McLarty, McCarthy, Cox, Schade

Yes, we are short of KPP talent.
Should have recruited, traded in, free agency at least 1 more high end talent (2 meter Peter for example).
Has to be our major focus this October/November.
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I'd still argue a small defender should be our primary target.

I mean, here is our key position depth (quality arguments aside):

- Reid, Moore, Keefe, Schade, McLarty, Cox, McCarthy, Lynch, Dunn, Goldsack

Here is our small defender depth:

- Sinclair, Ramsay, Smith

That's it. Sinclair is great but perpetually injured and Ramsay and Smith are both less than useless. We need a quality small defender ASAP. You play Sinclair every game this year and we make finals.

We should be hunting a Nick Smith type either via free agency or in the draft.

Hell, I'd take Morris from Richmond as a hold over until we can find something.
 
Shpeshal Ed said:
I'd still argue a small defender should be our primary target.

I mean, here is our key position depth (quality arguments aside):

- Reid, Moore, Keefe, Schade, McLarty, Cox, McCarthy, Lynch, Dunn, Goldsack

Here is our small defender depth:

- Sinclair, Ramsay, Smith

That's it. Sinclair is great but perpetually injured and Ramsay and Smith are both less than useless. We need a quality small defender ASAP. You play Sinclair every game this year and we make finals.

We should be hunting a Nick Smith type either via free agency or in the draft.

Hell, I'd take Morris from Richmond as a hold over until we can find something.
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A bit misleading to list KPP depth vs small defender depth when KPP covers two areas of the ground, and two of those guys you've listed have never played a game while another two (Schade, Keeffe) could well be delisted.

Importance of position obviously comes in to consideration here too. Small defenders can generally be found throughout the draft and are significantly less important than KPP, KPF's in particular, needing to be genuinely top quality to have an impact at AFL level.

What I'd really like is to get a late first/early second in addition to pick 6 to pick up Ed Richards. Genuinely good small defender, has the feels factor to him as well being Rons grandson, and allows us to target a KPP with our first pick.
 

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Shpeshal Ed said:
I'd still argue a small defender should be our primary target.

I mean, here is our key position depth (quality arguments aside):

- Reid, Moore, Keefe, Schade, McLarty, Cox, McCarthy, Lynch, Dunn, Goldsack

Here is our small defender depth:

- Sinclair, Ramsay, Smith

That's it. Sinclair is great but perpetually injured and Ramsay and Smith are both less than useless. We need a quality small defender ASAP. You play Sinclair every game this year and we make finals.

We should be hunting a Nick Smith type either via free agency or in the draft.

Hell, I'd take Morris from Richmond as a hold over until we can find something.
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A small defender may be one or our targets, although I wouldn't be spending our pick 6 on one.
Pick 6 should be a KPP.
Then we try to trade for another pick (2nd round), that could be used on a small defender (with breakaway pace & solid foot skills/decision making).
Or it's free agency?
 
MyManLynch said:
A small defender may be one or our targets, although I wouldn't be spending our pick 6 on one.
Pick 6 should be a KPP.
Then we try to trade for another pick (2nd round), that could be used on a small defender (with breakaway pace & solid foot skills/decision making).
Or it's free agency?
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If we are looking at a small defender there will be a couple available with our 4th rounders.

I'd be looking at drafting KPF, KPD, line breaker and a lockdown small defender.
 
He just has about a Perfect Record when he took over from Judkins in 2005.

Here are his 1st Rounders:

  • Daisy Thomas
  • Scott Pendlebury
  • Ben Reid
  • Nathan Brown
  • Steele Sidebottom
  • Brodie Grundy
  • Ben Kenndy
  • Tim Broomhead
  • Matthew Scharanberg
  • Nathan Freeman
  • Jordan De Goey
  • Darcy Moore
  • Jaiyden Stephenson
Only Kennedy and Freeman only Proper Misses from them
 
TradeDraft said:
He just has about a Perfect Record when he took over from Judkins in 2005.

Here are his 1st Rounders:

  • Daisy Thomas
  • Scott Pendlebury
  • Ben Reid
  • Nathan Brown
  • Steele Sidebottom
  • Brodie Grundy
  • Ben Kenndy
  • Tim Broomhead
  • Matthew Scharanberg
  • Nathan Freeman
  • Jordan De Goey
  • Darcy Moore
  • Jaiyden Stephenson
Only Kennedy and Freeman only Proper Misses from them
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Jury still out on Tim also, but the rest are pretty good.
 
TradeDraft said:
He just has about a Perfect Record when he took over from Judkins in 2005.

Here are his 1st Rounders:

  • Daisy Thomas
  • Scott Pendlebury
  • Ben Reid
  • Nathan Brown
  • Steele Sidebottom
  • Brodie Grundy
  • Ben Kenndy
  • Tim Broomhead
  • Matthew Scharanberg
  • Nathan Freeman
  • Jordan De Goey
  • Darcy Moore
  • Jaiyden Stephenson
Only Kennedy and Freeman only Proper Misses from them
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Whilst I get officially Kennedy and the broomheaded one are first round picks,
That year’s draft had 23 picks as first round.
Which to me is kind of silly.

Grundy was Pick 18
So I’m a bit more saying 18 picks should be the maximum considered first rounders.

On that basis Freeman is the big bomb. Injury plagued Freeman.
 
Kennedy very late first round as with Broomhead. We can't say Freeman hasn't played owing to form but injury.
 
Stoods said:
From what i recall you have recently been very critical of Hine Dave, what has changed?
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I thought I was 1 of the more Positive People about Hine not like Others who had said Sack him end of Last Season.

Though his Trading as List Manger not been the Best
 
TradeDraft said:
I thought I was 1 of the more Positive People about Hine not like Others who had said Sack him end of Last Season.

Though his Trading as List Manger not been the Best
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Yeah I agree, excellent when it comes to drafting but everything else he is not as good at which is what last years review would have also delved into.
 
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