Analysis Hine Picking too Many of the Same Type

Kappa

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Yes context does help which is why your original comment was crap.
He wasn't saying get an indigenous kid regardless of talent (like you claim he is), he was saying recruit talented indigenous players who have a particular skill set that go late in every draft over a less talented grunt type Hine usually goes for or even rookied instead of a long shot KPP.



See that 6 letter word there yeah the one that spells TALENT, and see where he goes after it where we have lacked in the area. He's reffering to type ie a crumbing specialist with xfactor goals sense and pace that is a typical of indigenous small fwds.


He's not saying lets go out there and just put indigenous on the list just because. The only person who seemingly didn't get what he meant was you (but I bet you actually did know what he meant by it).
I quite obviously never accused him of saying "let's recruit an aboriginal player regardless of talent", I accused him of wanting to recruit one particular race to join our club, which Is exactly what he did.
 

loki04

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I quite obviously never accused him of saying "let's recruit an aboriginal player regardless of talent", I accused him of wanting to recruit one particular race to join our club, which Is exactly what he did.
No, you took him to mean that but majority of people knew what he was getting at. I suspect so did you, do we really have to qualify every statement to nth degree just to over clarify what our meaning is?

Btw those 2 lines are one in the same just differing way of saying it, you are baiting with the often overused term racist/racism play.
 

Kappa

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No, you took him to mean that but majority of people knew what he was getting at. I suspect so did you, do we really have to qualify every statement to nth degree just to over clarify what our meaning is?

Btw those 2 lines are one in the same just differing way of saying it, you are baiting with the often overused term racist/racism play.
I think race play is a form of bdsm..
 

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jackcass

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Much of that pre dates Hines reign, judkins last draft with Hine also having input (Hine took over late in the year but Judkins had done the work in 04, from 05 Hine went solo) and then not long after he took over, he seemed to be more active in drafting indigenous boys as HBF's but not so much crumbing specialist types.

I did state also he appears to like indigenous players as mature from other clubs rather then taking a risk on drafting u18 types the last decade at least.
You may well be right, I haven't looked at specific years, just noted those I can recall being drafted/traded.
 

OniAu

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KPF
Ruck/Forward
KPD
small forward

Should be our targets in this years trade/draft period. Hoping we dont bloody trade our 1st or 2nd rounders for next year

i think we found our speed down back with noble and quaynor, which is what ive been hoping we would get for a few years now.
 

sr36

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Kirby? as what mate as a specialist crumbing type? you ever watch his games? He was a lead and mark type who occasionally crumb a goal. Does not fit the job description.
Which specialist crumbing types picked in the time frame would you like us to have in our team? Serious question, because I reckon you want your forward line to consist of a couple of tall forwards, a couple of generalist forwards and a couple of rotating/developing mids. If you were picking a team from the whole AFL, I don't think there would be a specialist crumbing type in it.
 

sr36

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Or more the fact that if Varcoe and Wells retire we don't have a single indigenous player on the list largely due to the fact we have a history of passing on them.. I'm not saying we are racist as a club I'm just saying we tend to pass on the indigenous small forwards for other players and it would be nice to have a few small forwards that can crumb outside of Stevo
We don't draft specialist small forwards, regardless of race. I don't mind it. The best small forwards are mids at lower leagues (or undersized full forwards at lower leagues) who have some issue that stops them being mids at a higher level.
 

loki04

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Which specialist crumbing types picked in the time frame would you like us to have in our team? Serious question, because I reckon you want your forward line to consist of a couple of tall forwards, a couple of generalist forwards and a couple of rotating/developing mids. If you were picking a team from the whole AFL, I don't think there would be a specialist crumbing type in it.
Off the top of my head....
Younger ones Dan and Willi Rioli, Bobby Hill, Ian Hill, Cameron WCE, J.Higgins when in form, Fantasia and Tipungwudi...just for starters.

Charlie Cameron is one as well but can play higher no issues with versatility so long as they have crumbing specialist type attributes.

Luke Bruest was also one and still more then capable at it.
Walters and Ballantyne.

Tom Papley, Eddie Betts and Toby Greene.

Many teams have the types just not us.
 

sr36

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Off the top of my head....
Younger ones Dan and Willi Rioli, Bobby Hill, Ian Hill, Cameron WCE, J.Higgins when in form, Fantasia and Tipungwudi...just for starters.

Charlie Cameron is one as well but can play higher no issues with versatility so long as they have crumbing specialist type attributes.

Luke Bruest was also one and still more then capable at it.
Walters and Ballantyne.

Tom Papley, Eddie Betts and Toby Greene.

Many teams have the types just not us.
Greene, Vintage Betts, Walters and occasionally Tippa are the only ones in the same class as Stephenson and Degoey. Despite also being fantastic when presenting at the footy, they're also very dangerous crumbers.
 

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loki04

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Greene, Vintage Betts, Walters and occasionally Tippa are the only ones in the same class as Stephenson and Degoey. Despite also being fantastic when presenting at the footy, they're also very dangerous crumbers.
Given the latter 2 were top 6 picks you hope so as players...and you are projecting a bit there with Stephenson vs some peers of the proven types like Bruests best years.
Stephenson also does it no where near with the regularity of the others mentioned and really neither does degoey although more regular then Stepho and typically off his own spills more then other fwds.

The creative crumbing role wouldn't be in competition with those 2 lead up types anyway. They are both predominantly lead and mark players.

It would be in competition with the 5th and 6th slots like a Josh Thomas or Crocker etc. Or allow a WHE to play wing bring pace to our square set up or hbf role if needed...
 

sr36

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Given the latter 2 were top 6 picks you hope so as players...and you are projecting a bit there with Stephenson vs some peers of the proven types like Bruests best years.
Stephenson also does it no where near with the regularity of the others mentioned and really neither does degoey although more regular then Stepho and typically off his own spills more then other fwds.

The creative crumbing role wouldn't be in competition with those 2 lead up types anyway. They are both predominantly lead and mark players.

It would be in competition with the 5th and 6th slots like a Josh Thomas or Crocker etc. Or allow a WHE to play wing bring pace to our square set up or hbf role if needed...
Obviously it would be nice to have some more classy forwards and you're right I am projecting with Stepho. But last year we had a group dubbed the swoop squad because they were so effective at pouncing on spillage. A couple of them are horrendously out of form, but I'm not sure if guys like Willie or Dan Rioli, who play a good game every 6 months, would make us much better.

People tslk about picking a couple of indigenous small forwards as though they grow on trees. There's about 6 consistently good indigenous small forwards in the league.
 
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loki04

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Obviously it would be nice to have some more classy forwards and you're right I am projecting with Stepho. But last year we had a group dubbed the swoop squad because they were so effective at pouncing on spillage. A couple of them are horrendously out of form, but I'm not sure if guys like Willie or Dan Rioli, who play a good game every 6 months, would make us much better.
Bit of hyperbole with Will and Dan Rioli there. I'd also argue that those 2 create more goals when buzzing around even with low stats then other players we rotate around our fwd line.

Swoop squad more like small versatile fwd line that goat a lot of goals from running back into fwd 50 into space or from leading up at the ball carriers...
2018
Cox
Mihochek
Degoey crumbs his own spills the most.
WHE irregular crumb.
JT (our main crumber/defensive fwd who fell out of form for much of the back half of 2018 and is no where near creative enough not just goals but around them too)
Stephenson irregular crumb.

Outside crumbing the ability to spot targets inside 50 in traffic and smoothly deliver the ball.
Chase and harass.
Create goals both directly and indirectly through smart play.
Running at packs at paces ability to consistently wrong foot etc.

Some teams even run 2 players with these attributes. Hell Richmond has a heap capable with varying talent caps.
Stack is another who is capable if they chose to play the role.
 

sr36

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Bit of hyperbole with Will and Dan Rioli there. I'd also argue that those 2 create more goals when buzzing around even with low stats then other players we rotate around our fwd line.

Swoop squad more like small versatile fwd line that goat a lot of goals from running back into fwd 50 into space or from leading up at the ball carriers...
2018
Cox
Mihochek
Degoey crumbs his own spills the most.
WHE irregular crumb.
JT (our main crumber/defensive fwd who fell out of form for much of the back half of 2018 and is no where near creative enough not just goals but around them too)
Stephenson irregular crumb.

Outside crumbing the ability to spot targets inside 50 in traffic and smoothly deliver the ball.
Chase and harass.
Create goals both directly and indirectly through smart play.
Running at packs at paces ability to consistently wrong foot etc.

Some teams even run 2 players with these attributes. Hell Richmond has a heap capable with varying talent caps.
Stack is another who is capable if they chose to play the role.
I tend to agree with the swoop squad stuff.

Maybe I have watched the wrong Richmond games, but I haven't seen Dan Rioli do a thing since that 2017 final. I just don't think that many of the guys mentioned are any better or any more consistent than Varcoe, Thomas and Brown.
 

Damon_3388

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I have noticed a bit this Season we have Depth in some Postions like Medium Forwards but we don't have any Real KPF's at all as Hine has only picked Paine,Gault.McLarty in the National Draft and other 2 Moore and Kelly where Father Sons since 2010.

Also we have a Real Lack of Crumbers. Yes we had Abbott and Kirby and we did not have much luck with them. With Abbott going AWOL after 1 Season and then Kirby's Heart Issue.

Then look at our Midfield we have some Good Inside/Outside Mids but outside of Adams and Maybe Sier we don't have many other Inside/Clarence Players.

Hine has been good of finding players but there too similar to each other.

Thoughts?
Honestly can't recall who Abbott is/was.
 

jackcass

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Honestly can't recall who Abbott is/was.
Much like Kirby, Abbott was tearing it up at VFL level for a season which saw him earn the label "The Big Show". Unlike Kirby who's career was derailed by health issues, Abbott just thought he had more important stuff to do than thrill us supporters so returned home to WA. Was some suggestion of MH issues.
 

No SPIN

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Shouldn't be relying on international/cross sport prospects to fill our KP needs either. Cox has been good , but has his limitations. Really wish we would just draft a young KPF OR KPD and put some time into them

Our list balance is stupidly out of whack. Plus we love to hang on to nothing players who are about 8th best for their position (Wills, Broomhead , Crocker, (Of the past) Oxley and Blair) or injury prone players ( Reid , Wells ) Instead of turning these types over for youth.

We dont even have a back up ruck if Grundy goes down. Cox is it , but then it takes a KPF from our forward line.
You forgot we have Lynch as a ruck man.
 

loki04

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I tend to agree with the swoop squad stuff.

Maybe I have watched the wrong Richmond games, but I haven't seen Dan Rioli do a thing since that 2017 final. I just don't think that many of the guys mentioned are any better or any more consistent than Varcoe, Thomas and Brown.
They don't bring the attacking attributes/flair etcetc of most the others named.
 

sr36

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They don't bring the attacking attributes/flair etcetc of most the others named.
I reckon Varcoe is as good a player now as when he was at the Cats and when he was at the Cats he would have made your list. With a few exceptions, the less often you watch small forwards, the neyter they appear to be because you remember the highlights.
 

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