Opinion Hinesight v Knightsight v Hindsight 2018

Joined
Aug 10, 2015
Posts
41,530
Likes
32,269
AFL Club
Collingwood
Interesting discussion.

Mid aged VFL players?
Fascinating the range of opinions.

That said even though Mihocek has really surprised me as a rule, there is a reason longer term VFL players are mainly passed over. The judgment is they are not at the higher level.
Yes some will play and play well but really it’s as medium level talent, a fill in, or just capable to position.
Can not have seen Hore improve us.
Probably just not good enough was our judgment- wish him well next season and to see how he goes.

In a way another key player that was given a go as a key player eas also cut loose, McLarty. And he was on the list. Again the judgment being he isn’t quite good enough. Sure he could have played some games but it appears all the clubs have determined at best he’s still not worth an AFL spot. Ruthless business, footy.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Joined
Aug 10, 2015
Posts
41,530
Likes
32,269
AFL Club
Collingwood
The next discussion that’s interesting is the: if he plays he’s fit argument.

In many ways that’s correct, you play, you’re judged accordingly.

However the caveat is clubs deciding with the less fit good players group, does the positives outweigh the negatives.

Hoskin-Elliott was likely deemed still better somewhat unfit over say a fully fit Blair or bringing in Fasolo etc.
I’d agree with that.

De Goey was playing with a manged stress in his leg, still worth it. I applaud how well he did but still know he wasn’t 100%.

Then there’s Dusty Martin in the Prelim. Obviously he was carrying something but they were right to play him.
Would the 23rd Tiger have been better for them? Not in my view.
But not to judge his game without taking into account his issue...
 
Last edited:

76woodenspooners

Premium Platinum
Joined
Jun 4, 2011
Posts
15,120
Likes
21,402
Location
Sydney
AFL Club
Collingwood
But overall when I look at the ‘Hinesight v Knightsight’ I would say Hine has had the more difficult role in having to assess talent and what is asked of him from the club. And with all of this, he seems to have been far more successful in his assessment of the talent he has brought in than I think what you have been.
I’m shocked and astounded that draft watchers such as Knightmare even get within the ballpark of good v bad calls compared with club recruiters given ...

- clubs have access to more player data including medical records
- clubs have ability to interview players
- clubs are often recruiting to a need rather than just best available
- clubs have better insight about how players will fit into their future gameplan
- clubs have better insight how players will fit into their internal culture and support systems
- club recruiters can focus and don’t need to spend time doing other things to pay their bills

There’s a huge difference firing a rifle at a range and firing one in the heat of battle. I think Hine has shown he has done a reasonably good job performing in the heat of battle.
... or to use another analogy - it’s harder to play poker when there are sheep stations on the line :)

Knightmare is around half the age of the average recruiter, and people in this industry have to start somewhere. Whilst some of his calls (with the benefit of hindsight) are off - it’s hard to not be super impressed by the way that he evolves his systems, and adapts, and uses feedback loops, and measures himself against the best, and strives to get better. It’s probably just a matter of time before we see him in clubland :)
 
Joined
Jul 23, 2013
Posts
1,902
Likes
2,738
AFL Club
Collingwood
At this stage of career Reid has declined.

Re. WHE. If you're health enough to play, you're healthy enough to perform. If he shows up this year and improves his tackling, wins more of the contested footy, finds more of it up the ground and gets his scoreboard impact back somewhere closer to where it was at in the first half of the season,
Please. Everyone knows Reid's decline is due to recurring soft tissues... You said a fully-fit and healthy squad.... Point out the other AA defenders in the team.

The injury is no excuse line is really meant for blokes who roll their ankles at training after not taping them or who feel a strain in their hammy and don't put their hand up, not for a bloke who's ******* knee gets bent back on a 45 degree angle but carries on for the rest of the year because the whole first choice forward line at the start of the year is missing
 
Joined
Jul 23, 2013
Posts
1,902
Likes
2,738
AFL Club
Collingwood
So does a fully fit Jack Regan, but that's only marginally less likely.

I love Ben Reid but he'll never be what he was, unfortunately.
Most likely but Knightmare said fully fit and healthy and under those terms he does. The moment he says dug up from the grave, resurrected and taught how to play zone defense I'll be the first to drop Lynden Dunn to slide in the prince of full backs.
 

jackcass

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Oct 8, 2007
Posts
15,533
Likes
13,127
Location
Bendigo
AFL Club
Collingwood
I've read opinions like this a lot over the last month. That Elliott is better than JT, therefore he takes his place. I think it's a shortsighted argument. They play COMPLETELY DIFFERENT roles. Elliot is a marking forward, he is a target. He is a superb mark, he leads with authority..Stylistically he isn't all that different to WHE(also a superb mark), or JDG (also a superb leading forward). JT doesn't play that way, he is a crumber. Hardly any of his goals come from marks, they come from crumbs. He plays front and square. Elliot doesn't, he flies for marks.

We have been really weak at crumbing since Krakouer retired. The ball hit the ground on our forward line, and we just couldn't convert. Dropping JT will leave a major hole that Elliott, great player that he is, just doesn't fill. Wells might, he is a superb crumber. Ate might, it looks like he crumbs, but it's not Elliott's bread and butter. My solution? Bring in Elliot, push WHE or Stevo to a wing, drop Mayne/Greenwood/Aish
Not so sure there is that much between Elliott and Thomas in the "crumber" stakes. Neither is Krakouer or Brad Dick quality but both seem to work the ground footy. I'd assume that the main reason posters elevate Elliott ahead of Thomas is that Elliott has that marking prowess, and he's a much better 2-way runner. That said, not really sure that Thomas and Elliott are competing for a spot either. I'd assume that Varcoe would be the vulnerable player to an Elliott return, or that someone like WHE or Stephenson would move further afield to accommodate him pressuring players like Mayne and Aish for spots.
 

Dynamics

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Jul 23, 2007
Posts
5,620
Likes
8,574
Location
Cane toads and faded curtains.
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
Liverpool FC
Most likely but Knightmare said fully fit and healthy and under those terms he does. The moment he says dug up from the grave, resurrected and taught how to play zone defense I'll be the first to drop Lynden Dunn to slide in the prince of full backs.
That's not really the point I was making though, I'm not talking about injuries. Reid isn't the player he was and he won't be that player again. Fully fit or not. A fit Ben Reid in 2019 can't play like a fit Ben Reid of 5 years ago. As you said, we're not digging up graves, but we also don't have access to time machines.

I know I'm not a doctor or physio and don't work at the club so it's all based on observations from afar, but his physical decline seems obvious to me. Ben Reid is a bit part player now, albeit a really good one. I hope he gets plenty more good games in for us before retirement, but IMO our best 22 no longer includes Reidy.

I hope he proves me wrong, but I just don't see it.
 
Joined
Jul 23, 2013
Posts
1,902
Likes
2,738
AFL Club
Collingwood
That's not really the point I was making though, I'm not talking about injuries. Reid isn't the player he was and he won't be that player again. Fully fit or not. A fit Ben Reid in 2019 can't play like a fit Ben Reid of 5 years ago.
Ben Reid only played 4 games 5 seasons ago...
 

Knightmare

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Sep 22, 2010
Posts
15,733
Likes
13,702
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
Chicago Bulls
Thread starter #236
But you did say that Hore was better than ‘most players’ in our backline. Removing big key positionnplayers such as Dunne, I simply listed those players in our backline (Howe, Maynard, Crisp and Langdon) and I can’t see how an unproven player in the VFL is better than these guys who make up the current backline. Maybe a replacement for an ageing Goldsack? Hore I find interesting because the Pies have been able to watch him closely for a few years now and they elected to pass on him. They must have a view why he isn’t good enough to replace others. I suppose the club is looking at players such as Murphy coming through and wanting to give him opportunities to develop? And yes you would expect Hore to have a head start on Quaynor. After all he is about 5 years older and has a lot more experience. But is he the type of player the Pies are looking for to add to the backline? Does he provide the burst and run off the backline that I’m assuming the Pies want (after all it’s why they picked up Murray) and get in Quaynor.

And Alex Johnston you thought was worthy of a rookie pick pre-draft.

Sorry Knightmare, while I do admire some of your thoughts, others I believe are way off.
Hore is better than a lot of backline players, but only those outside my listed best 22. He's around on parr or just slightly ahead of Scharenberg and ahead of Reid, Quaynor, Murray, Varcoe, Mayne, Goldsack, Appleby, Madgen, Roughead, Aish and certainly far ahead of Murphy, Kelly who are my list with capabilities of playing back. Hore is AFL ready and AFL standard on 2018 quality of play.

Collingwood in this draft were inactive. Only drafting NGA/Father-sons then re-drafting Broomhead/Murray as rookies. There wasn't anything about Collingwood not rating anyone. Even had Collingwood carried Atu over to the rookie draft as a cat b rookie which they could have done, Hore would not have been available at the Pies final selection after being committed to Quaynor and Kelly.

I feel there are several clubs who should have considered Johnson, and I would also have considered him, but he didn't make my eventual draft board as per my power rankings which can be found in my Draft Almanac thread on the phantom draft board. Gold Coast specifically I feel have made a mistake not taking Johnson as a rookie as someone who irrespective of if he gets back or not greatly helps their culture and sets a tone and the right example for the kids they're year on year proving inept in developing.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Joined
Aug 10, 2015
Posts
41,530
Likes
32,269
AFL Club
Collingwood
Ben Reid will be a fascinating watch.

If he got back to something like his better work and play he would be of benefit.

If somehow he and Moore kept the two key defence spots we’d have two players that if need be could swing forward. Very versatile our lot.

That said you’d think all up and about Dunn and Moore would be the two keys down back.
Allowing Langdon and Howe and Scharenberg more freedom.

Interesting watch.
 
Joined
Aug 10, 2015
Posts
41,530
Likes
32,269
AFL Club
Collingwood
Hore is better than a lot of backline players, but only those outside my listed best 22. He's around on parr or just slightly ahead of Scharenberg and ahead of Reid, Quaynor, Murray, Varcoe, Mayne, Goldsack, Appleby, Madgen, Roughead, Aish and certainly far ahead of Murphy, Kelly who are my list with capabilities of playing back. Hore is AFL ready and AFL standard on 2018 quality of play.
I’ll predict Hore will have at best an average career in an AFL level sense.

And I just can’t see how an untested player like Hore can be considered in the same paddock of Scharenberg (the poise that guy has; the skill); Varcoe?
Mayne? Even Roughead?
An untried VFL type has to earn it before being considered better or on par with players who have done it over numerous games and years.

Scharenberg and Varcoe so far in front.
If it’s GF day and I’ve got two to pick from the three of MH, MS, TV I’m not even considering Hore.
 

Knightmare

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Sep 22, 2010
Posts
15,733
Likes
13,702
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
Chicago Bulls
Thread starter #239
I’m shocked and astounded that draft watchers such as Knightmare even get within the ballpark of good v bad calls compared with club recruiters given ...

- clubs have access to more player data including medical records
- clubs have ability to interview players
- clubs are often recruiting to a need rather than just best available
- clubs have better insight about how players will fit into their future gameplan
- clubs have better insight how players will fit into their internal culture and support systems
- club recruiters can focus and don’t need to spend time doing other things to pay their bills



... or to use another analogy - it’s harder to play poker when there are sheep stations on the line :)

Knightmare is around half the age of the average recruiter, and people in this industry have to start somewhere. Whilst some of his calls (with the benefit of hindsight) are off - it’s hard to not be super impressed by the way that he evolves his systems, and adapts, and uses feedback loops, and measures himself against the best, and strives to get better. It’s probably just a matter of time before we see him in clubland :)
More vision. More people/opinions. Not picking the same player twice. Not picking guys who don't get drafted which puts my selections at an immediate disadvantage not getting AFL developments. I shouldn't based on all those factors + many others be anywhere close as someone outside the system.

The recruiting industry isn't just a bunch of old guys. It's a real mixed bag and there are plenty around my age and a decent number who are younger.

I'm pretty satisfied at the moment with my mix of working full time in one of Melbourne's best schools + writing for ESPN. ESPN gives me a great deal more flexibility than I would have working for an AFL club. Hopefully I can continue to fit it into my schedule. Limited family commitments to this point has helped though if/when I have a family who knows?

I'd happily be a consultant external to their four walls to any of the clubs if they're after a second opinion but I'm not really looking to get a scouting gig for a club where they're getting you to travel from game to game, venue to venue. I'd much rather pick a game or two each weekend to go to and watch some others online.

Knightmare , wondering if artificial intelligence (learning algorithms) have found their way into the draft process yet?
A great question and not that I've heard.

I think in time it's something if it happens, and I think a long way down the road it will, it will come from outside clubland and someone will be hired on the back of its creation if it's proving it's churning out some good choices. as you'd expect it would.

Please. Everyone knows Reid's decline is due to recurring soft tissues... You said a fully-fit and healthy squad.... Point out the other AA defenders in the team.

The injury is no excuse line is really meant for blokes who roll their ankles at training after not taping them or who feel a strain in their hammy and don't put their hand up, not for a bloke who's ******* knee gets bent back on a 45 degree angle but carries on for the rest of the year because the whole first choice forward line at the start of the year is missing
Fully-fit implying physically able to play without carrying serious issues.

He can be fully-fit and not have the athletic ability or the penetration on his kick he once had.

And that's who Reid is now. A shadow of his once former self, but if full-healthy still a viable KPP.
 
Joined
Jul 23, 2013
Posts
1,902
Likes
2,738
AFL Club
Collingwood
Fully-fit implying physically able to play without carrying serious issues.

He can be fully-fit and not have the athletic ability or the penetration on his kick he once had.

And that's who Reid is now. A shadow of his once former self, but if full-healthy still a viable KPP.
First of all let me preface by saying historically I am Ben Reid's biggest critic and a review of my posting history will show I was calling for him to be dropped years ago due to his lack of mobility and his ability to contribute to a winning side.

But I'd say a 27-29 year old professional athlete that struggles to touch his toes or pick up a ball beneath his knees is carrying or effected by a serious injury or the cumulative affects thereof.

As I would with a 26 year old forward who has been carrying stress fractures in his spine for three years...

As I would with a 34 year old with multiple lisfranc injuries.

All three have played less than 50% of all games available over the last 5 years but you've omitted the AA, Premiership player?
 

Attachments

Knightmare

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Sep 22, 2010
Posts
15,733
Likes
13,702
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
Chicago Bulls
Thread starter #241
First of all let me preface by saying historically I am Ben Reid's biggest critic and a review of my posting history will show I was calling for him to be dropped years ago due to his lack of mobility and his ability to contribute to a winning side.

But I'd say a 27-29 year old professional athlete that struggles to touch his toes or pick up a ball beneath his knees is carrying or effected by a serious injury or the cumulative affects thereof.

As I would with a 26 year old forward who has been carrying stress fractures in his spine for three years...

As I would with a 34 year old with multiple lisfranc injuries.

All three have played less than 50% of all games available over the last 5 years but you've omitted the AA, Premiership player?
We're both analysing Reid from very different angles.

Prime Reid in 2011 was Collingwood's best player. Better than prime Pendlebury. Better than prime Swan. Better than prime Cloke. He'd takes so many intercept marks and he'd launch the ball 60m to open targets that would lead time and again to scoring opportunities. He capitalised on the pressure up the field in a big way from that gameplan of the time.

Reid is no longer that player. Accumulation of injuries have played a large part in that decline but he can get fully healthy and he isn't that same player.

Reid's ageing process is hardly a first. We saw the decline from Cloke. We saw the decline from D.Thomas. We saw the decline from Didak. We saw the decline from J.Fraser. Collingwood's players decline prematurely - with each of these players declining in their mid 20s and unable to recapture their previous play. Injuries as per your point plays a part in this. But even as they were declining, they all continued to play and were deemed match-fit and Collingwood had no ability to get these guys back anywhere close to where they previously were - and to a worst in the competition standard.

There are guys with much longer and worse injury histories who have been able to return to or even exceed their former bests and others who have come pretty close to. In Collingwood's case they're either falling apart in their mid 20s for the most part and the majority of the rest in their late 20s start their decline and by 30 are a shadow of their former selves.
 
Joined
Jul 23, 2013
Posts
1,902
Likes
2,738
AFL Club
Collingwood
When they've been available for selection. They're played to a clear best 22 standard.
Daniel Wells was available for selection 4 times last season. He averaged 12.5 disposals, .5 goals and 2.5 tackles a game. "Clear best 22 standard."

Will Hoskin Elliot played 10 games after his knee injury last season. Averaged 13.5 disposals, 1.1 goals a game and 2 tackles. " Another who should for mine be under the pump at the selection table is Will Hoskin-Elliott"

Can you see where one might think you are applying different standards to different players?
 

adammania9

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Posts
8,889
Likes
17,118
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
University
Short memories regarding Scharenberg - he was unbelievable when he played this year despite his inexperience and small (in comparison to opponents) frame. But he was regularly clunking intercept marks, often in contested situations and he was beating his man one-on-one every week. I for one cannot wait for him to be fit again as I see him as another absolute lock in the 22.
 

Knightmare

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Sep 22, 2010
Posts
15,733
Likes
13,702
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
Chicago Bulls
Thread starter #246
Daniel Wells was available for selection 4 times last season. He averaged 12.5 disposals, .5 goals and 2.5 tackles a game. "Clear best 22 standard."

Will Hoskin Elliot played 10 games after his knee injury last season. Averaged 13.5 disposals, 1.1 goals a game and 2 tackles. " Another who should for mine be under the pump at the selection table is Will Hoskin-Elliott"

Can you see where one might think you are applying different standards to different players?
With four games from Wells not an adequate sample size - particularly playing less than 50% gametime in the fourth of his games, I don't see his 2018 play as reflective of his capabilities when available for selection. My expectation is something closer to his 2017 play where he was the clubs most impactful per possession and a real tone setter with his ball movement - rating elite for score assists and score involvements and when involved in a chain, the club scored 39% of the time - the highest % of any mid-forward who played at least five games. His kicks i50 resulted in a mark 31% of the time - ranked 23rd of the top 300 players for these kicks. When he played, he moved fine so if he can get himself healthy, I still feel he can impact winning.

And with a marking rather than crumbing front half, that premier delivery which other than Pendlebury the club lacks, Wells if he can recapture that 2017 form or close to it is someone I'd absolutely be using every week. He's a real need across wing/half-forward whereas Reid on the other hand has four players who at this stage if healthy on performance would be selected ahead of him.

Outside of my proposed best 22, who would you propose be used ahead of Wells? Varcoe? Mayne? Greenwood? They all have different games, but I don't rate them ahead of 2017 Wells based on their respective 2018 play.

Short memories regarding Scharenberg - he was unbelievable when he played this year despite his inexperience and small (in comparison to opponents) frame. But he was regularly clunking intercept marks, often in contested situations and he was beating his man one-on-one every week. I for one cannot wait for him to be fit again as I see him as another absolute lock in the 22.
Who would you leave out from my earlier team? Does he play alongside a healthy Dunn/Moore/Howe/Crisp/Maynard/Langdon? Or do one of them get kicked out of the 22?

I have him as the first depth guy which means he'd probably play every game anyway if available.

I agree, Scharenberg is highly capable though. No debate from me.

If Hoskin-Elliott doesn't lift, he'd be my first out for Scharenberg - though I favour the lineup without Scharnberg as defenders don't need much time on the pine, and when they do, shifting Adams back for minor minutes is the way I'd look for this group to play.
 

jackcass

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Oct 8, 2007
Posts
15,533
Likes
13,127
Location
Bendigo
AFL Club
Collingwood
But you did say that Hore was better than ‘most players’ in our backline. Removing big key positionnplayers such as Dunne, I simply listed those players in our backline (Howe, Maynard, Crisp and Langdon) and I can’t see how an unproven player in the VFL is better than these guys who make up the current backline. Maybe a replacement for an ageing Goldsack? Hore I find interesting because the Pies have been able to watch him closely for a few years now and they elected to pass on him. They must have a view why he isn’t good enough to replace others. I suppose the club is looking at players such as Murphy coming through and wanting to give him opportunities to develop? And yes you would expect Hore to have a head start on Quaynor. After all he is about 5 years older and has a lot more experience. But is he the type of player the Pies are looking for to add to the backline? Does he provide the burst and run off the backline that I’m assuming the Pies want (after all it’s why they picked up Murray) and get in Quaynor.

And Alex Johnston you thought was worthy of a rookie pick pre-draft.

Sorry Knightmare, while I do admire some of your thoughts, others I believe are way off.
I've always though Hore was too in-between to make it at senior level. Too slow to replace our existing options who all have him covered for leg speed while offering similar intercept capacity, too short to play KPD. Kris Pendlebury (who I thought was a better footballer) suffered the same fate. Time will tell.

I would have been happy to give Johnston another try. Nothing ventured, nothing gained, and if he gets on the park has shown he is easily AFL quality.
 

adammania9

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Posts
8,889
Likes
17,118
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
University
With four games from Wells not an adequate sample size - particularly playing less than 50% gametime in the fourth of his games, I don't see his 2018 play as reflective of his capabilities when available for selection. My expectation is something closer to his 2017 play where he was the clubs most impactful per possession and a real tone setter with his ball movement - rating elite for score assists and score involvements and when involved in a chain, the club scored 39% of the time - the highest % of any mid-forward who played at least five games. His kicks i50 resulted in a mark 31% of the time - ranked 23rd of the top 300 players for these kicks. When he played, he moved fine so if he can get himself healthy, I still feel he can impact winning.

And with a marking rather than crumbing front half, that premier delivery which other than Pendlebury the club lacks, Wells if he can recapture that 2017 form or close to it is someone I'd absolutely be using every week. He's a real need across wing/half-forward whereas Reid on the other hand has four players who at this stage if healthy on performance would be selected ahead of him.

Outside of my proposed best 22, who would you propose be used ahead of Wells? Varcoe? Mayne? Greenwood? They all have different games, but I don't rate them ahead of 2017 Wells based on their respective 2018 play.



Who would you leave out from my earlier team? Does he play alongside a healthy Dunn/Moore/Howe/Crisp/Maynard/Langdon? Or do one of them get kicked out of the 22?

I have him as the first depth guy which means he'd probably play every game anyway if available.

I agree, Scharenberg is highly capable though. No debate from me.

If Hoskin-Elliott doesn't lift, he'd be my first out for Scharenberg - though I favour the lineup without Scharnberg as defenders don't need much time on the pine, and when they do, shifting Adams back for minor minutes is the way I'd look for this group to play.
Well I don’t see Darcy Moore as a true key defender, so I’d be moving Darcy away from CHB in favour of Shaz and dropping a depth midfielder (Wells my choice) in order to use Moore as a utility, mostly across half-back as a pure intercept and rebound defender. He doesn’t have the strength or the smarts to play on the opposition’s best forwards, he is monstered every time he tries however he is an elite uncontested marker and his booming field kick is capable of hitting chests 55m away. I don’t think he’s a key defender, rather a James Sicily clone with a bit more height. Wells’ production can be made up for through others particularly Phillips’ run and carry and Sier’s vision and smarts.

I love Wells and want him to succeed, but I see him as neither best 22 nor even important depth in regards to 2019. Watching Wells in 2017 was a blessing but we’ve found younger and fitter guys whose output exceeds his.
 

Knightmare

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Sep 22, 2010
Posts
15,733
Likes
13,702
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
Chicago Bulls
Thread starter #249
Well I don’t see Darcy Moore as a true key defender, so I’d be moving Darcy away from CHB in favour of Shaz and dropping a depth midfielder (Wells my choice) in order to use Moore as a utility, mostly across half-back as a pure intercept and rebound defender. He doesn’t have the strength or the smarts to play on the opposition’s best forwards, he is monstered every time he tries however he is an elite uncontested marker and his booming field kick is capable of hitting chests 55m away. I don’t think he’s a key defender, rather a James Sicily clone with a bit more height. Wells’ production can be made up for through others particularly Phillips’ run and carry and Sier’s vision and smarts.

I love Wells and want him to succeed, but I see him as neither best 22 nor even important depth in regards to 2019. Watching Wells in 2017 was a blessing but we’ve found younger and fitter guys whose output exceeds his.
I'm not convinced intercepting is Moore's natural game. He's improving at it, but he's not going to intercept to a Howe or Langdon standard.

I have no issues with Moore/Dunn/Scharenberg playing in the same back half - but Scharenberg is more the third tall of those and also again the better intercept mark with that being the strongest part of his game.

I feel like Moore's most natural spot would be ruck - but he's not going to get to play there with Grundy leading the way. With that being the case, I like him most as a key forward, but with Cox becoming someone this year, Mihocek earning his spot as a forward also and Reid possibly too slow to defend anyone in defence anymore, it sort of leaves Moore down back by default - and he does just fine there.

I don't see a Wells v Sier comparison with both roles very different. Sier is there to play pure inside. Wells while he can go inside was recruited to play outside. Though with the whole team flexible and guys able to adjust roles, if Wells doesn't perform, it's pretty easy as you say to just bring in Scharenberg and switch up the positions/roles of others slightly.

One closing note is - while perhaps not as applicable for Collingwood historically as the declines of our veterans have been unusually linear but often on other lists you'll see guys 30 and older who have rebound seasons you don't see coming. Anyone see that 2008 season from Richo coming? 2016 N.Riewoldt? 2014 Shaun Burgoyne? How about Hodge in 2013 after looking done in 2012? Guys in their early and mid 30s can have seasons you don't see coming if they get their bodies right.
 
Top Bottom