Opinion Hinesight v Knightsight v Hindsight 2018

[Albert Parker]

If we could have paid Murray out, I would have done it. Ever since his suspension, I've kinda forgotten about him. We replaced him in the team and look how far we got. But the club instead chose to delist and redraft as a rookie on some kind of faith. Whether or not that works out remains to be seen.

I agree on Broomhead. I don't even remember what he was like as a player. I remember his injury in round 2? That is about it. But the club obviously feels he deserves another chance given the freak incident. Rookie's get 1 year? I can't see that he gets a game next year IMO. I feel he'll be delisted again, roommate of Brodie's or not.

I presume that if found guilty, we can release him with no payout. In the meantime he takes no room on our senior list. Seems like the best path possible for the club.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

I presume that if found guilty, we can release him with no payout. In the meantime he takes no room on our senior list. Seems like the best path possible for the club.

And the path best travelled.

 

[Markfs]

Won’t somebody think of the children! How do you think the Sydney squad handled the Johnson decision? What if he does another long termer in 2019? I’m on the fence, but his injury would not have come into it outside his prospects of a long term career which were slim before the injury. The call on Murray was spot on.

You gotta be kidding me. You compare Johnson and Broomhead situation? As for the thinking of the children thing.... well i like the joke

actually i took a minute to reconsider and you might be right. Young people probably think this way. They seem to love verbals and emojis or whatever saying that you love them and they dont really care too much about the substantials. I tend to work on actions. If a manager dumps a fellow employee like a piece of dunny paper, then I'm expecting it next....doesnt matter how much he says that he loves me. If I was a pie player and they dumped broomhead, I'd be putting in short steps when I'm approaching that goal post if i'm in the same situation...

 

[whiskeytown]

Had a chat to Podjhaski on Sunday as he happens to bartend at one of the local pubs. He seemed pretty grounded considering...

And also hard on him because despite his good year, his mate Bytel - who missed a lot of footy this year - got picked up by the Saints.

Knightmare what do you think Podjhaski has to work on to improve his game in the eyes of club recruiters? Said he is likely to line up again for Coburg next year...

 

[Scodog10]

You gotta be kidding me. You compare Johnson and Broomhead situation? As for the thinking of the children thing.... well i like the joke

actually i took a minute to reconsider and you might be right. Young people probably think this way. They seem to love verbals and emojis or whatever saying that you love them and they dont really care too much about the substantials. I tend to work on actions. If a manager dumps a fellow employee like a piece of dunny paper, then I'm expecting it next....doesnt matter how much he says that he loves me. If I was a pie player and they dumped broomhead, I'd be putting in short steps when I'm approaching that goal post if i'm in the same situation...

That’s fantastic! By simply cutting a player that has thus far had a so so 6 year career we unearth precious mindsets like yours

Anyone put off by that sort of stuff isn’t up for the pressure of professional sport. This is an industry that mandates a minimum amount of change year to year look at McLarty who was spat out by the system before he was 20! Heaven help them getting over the GF loss if they reacted like you to this. Players know the drill and if the club went that way they’d have understood it.

Fortunately though clubs make emotionless decisions and in this case Collingwood understood that the guy taken with x pick in the rookie draft would be unlikely to have the sort of career Broomhead has cobbled together.

 

[76woodenspooners]

Take a look at the guidelines. Once an athlete is notified of a positive B, ASADA then notifies the AFL, etc. Then it goes to the Anti-Doping Rule Violation Panel to determine. On past performance, someone somewhere will leak well before an ADRVP is appointed.

That may be so ...

... but if we consider the possible source of leaks:

- Lab ... unlikely, this is their bread and butter and would’ve thought they would take confidentiality seriously. People could lose their jobs over it (besides, would samples be de-identified before they go to the lab?)

- ASADA ... I know you don’t hold them in particularly high esteem, but would have thought leaking would be bad for business?

- Club ... CFC has a history of leaking like a sieve. I wonder if the club has done that to ‘contain detonations’ (I also wonder if GWS are behind Mummy drug taking vid release for same reason, but I digress). But since the revie it’s been watertight. Consider that it didn’t even leak that Murray had a PED violation.

- Player. I could imagine if that they are advised to keep it hush hush then they would be inclined to follow that advice?

 

[76woodenspooners]

Yes. But what is even worse (to me anyway) is when journos publish tweets from nobodies to somehow convey a picture of "wholesale community outrage/support" on some particular issue.

Journo’s are not quite at the stage quoting the outrage of Saintly Viewed from BigFooty, but that’s probably not too far away!!!

 

[76woodenspooners]

If I could add anyone from Carlton? Other than Cripps/Curnow?

Weitering would be the guy. He has the scope still (while developed the past couple of years hasn't happened as expected) to become one of the best key defenders in the competition. Maybe even the best with good development.

Carlton have a decent enough 15 or so. A bit like Geelong, it's a shallow list with that their major issue - though they've added a number of good pieces over the offseason and others back from injury, so they'll be more competitive.

Where do you think Carlton might finish next year?

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Journo’s are not quite at the stage quoting the outrage of Saintly Viewed from BigFooty, but that’s probably not too far away!!!

They could do a lot worse.*





* they usually do

 

[Saintly Viewed]

That may be so ...

... but if we consider the possible source of leaks:

- Lab ... unlikely, this is their bread and butter and would’ve thought they would take confidentiality seriously. People could lose their jobs over it (besides, would samples be de-identified before they go to the lab?)

- ASADA ... I know you don’t hold them in particularly high esteem, but would have thought leaking would be bad for business?

- Club ... CFC has a history of leaking like a sieve. I wonder if the club has done that to ‘contain detonations’ (I also wonder if GWS are behind Mummy drug taking vid release for same reason, but I digress). But since the revie it’s been watertight. Consider that it didn’t even leak that Murray had a PED violation.

- Player. I could imagine if that they are advised to keep it hush hush then they would be inclined to follow that advice?

Maybe they told someone on big footy.

Nah, nobody would ever post rumours and gossip here

 

[Knightmare]

Had a chat to Podjhaski on Sunday as he happens to bartend at one of the local pubs. He seemed pretty grounded considering...

And also hard on him because despite his good year, his mate Bytel - who missed a lot of footy this year - got picked up by the Saints.

Knightmare what do you think Podjhaski has to work on to improve his game in the eyes of club recruiters? Said he is likely to line up again for Coburg next year...

That's the impression I have also.

I met his family (2017) in the stands just out of luck. Just got the sense there and then that he has a good family and he's well supported and has had a good upbringing.

In my books. It's about continuing to add weapons and making them more pronounced.

As a mostly midfielder he still managed 23 goals in 13 games. As a forward, while his marking is mostly good, I'd like to see that improve another level as he can drop some contested and uncontested he probably should be able to take. Continuing building his endurance and continue to become more dominant as a contested ball winner.

Recruiters like those points of difference, and the more those point out for Mitch, the more likely he is to work his way onto an AFL list.

 

[Markfs]

That’s fantastic! By simply cutting a player that has thus far had a so so 6 year career we unearth precious mindsets like yours

well i've had this precious mindset for some time. i tend to like consistency. And i tend to squirm when people start talking about doing it for the jumper or doing it for the coach etc etc etc. traditions of the club yada yada.... absolute crap. People try to dose up young boys with this crap to try to them them to work harder or to put their bodies in harm's way for the team. I'd call the kids chumps but they're young and gullible.

So I agree with you. Players should think of numero uno.....themselves. Timmy was a bloody idiot to do what he tried to do and he got the consequences....Personally, I dont disagree that he should be delisted but I was just saying that players are a little more emotional than you and I. They would look at Timmy getting dropped off the list and they might start thinking about numero uno a bit more.

 

[Knightmare]

Where do you think Carlton might finish next year?

16th is an early guess. Gold Coast are the clearly worst. St Kilda perhaps slightly worse. Western Bulldogs/Brisbane/Fremantle/Adelaide the teams they'd like to catch/pass by.

I see their range as being 12th-17th. A lot depends on health and youth development.

 

[sr36]

That’s fantastic! By simply cutting a player that has thus far had a so so 6 year career we unearth precious mindsets like yours

Anyone put off by that sort of stuff isn’t up for the pressure of professional sport. This is an industry that mandates a minimum amount of change year to year look at McLarty who was spat out by the system before he was 20! Heaven help them getting over the GF loss if they reacted like you to this. Players know the drill and if the club went that way they’d have understood it.

Fortunately though clubs make emotionless decisions and in this case Collingwood understood that the guy taken with x pick in the rookie draft would be unlikely to have the sort of career Broomhead has cobbled together.

I've got a foot in both camps. It's a ruthless business with no job security and clubs can't be too sentimental, but a massive part of team success is having cohesion, unity and a group who are willing to go above and beyond to play for each other. Emotion and loyalty play a massive part in that. They also play a massive part in teams being able to re-sign blokes under market value and keep top lists under the salary cap. No idea if Tim Broomhead and any call on him having a contract would have had an impact either way, but it's an impact that needs to be considered, even if your viewpoint is purely ruthless.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

16th is an early guess. Gold Coast are the clearly worst. St Kilda perhaps slightly worse. Western Bulldogs/Brisbane/Fremantle/Adelaide the teams they'd like to catch/pass by.

I see their range as being 12th-17th. A lot depends on health and youth development.

But if they still finish last, with another wooden spoon to Carlton, I’d forgive you having them at 17th.




I have the bottom teams as Carlton, St Kilda and Gold Coast.

For different reasons.
St Kilda seem to just be going nowhere, look to be getting worse;
Carlton because low grade efforts, big thrashings last year, a Boy Scout with homespun cringeworthy homilies as coach*;
Gold Coast because they were gutted and de-boned this trade time.




* also out of personal spite for Carlton just because

 

[Rohan25]

The club was never going to hang Broomhead out to dry after the injury he suffered. He was probably in a bit of trouble had he not got injured, but the club stands by injured players. Kirby is a different matter, doctor's orders and all that.

Hey Knight, you've been doing these Knightsight threads for years now, probably nearly a decade given you were around on BigFooty for a while under a different username. Would you mind posting some of your earliest versions of these threads for us from previous years?

I appreciate your efforts and genuinely find it fun to look back with the benefit of the years to inform us. Cheers.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

The club was never going to hang Broomhead out to dry after the injury he suffered. He was probably in a bit of trouble had he not got injured, but the club stands by injured players. Kirby is a different matter, doctor's orders and all that.

Hey Knight, you've been doing these Knightsight threads for years now, probably nearly a decade given you were around on BigFooty for a while under a different username. Would you mind posting some of your earliest versions of these threads for us from previous years?

I appreciate your efforts and genuinely find it fun to look back with the benefit of the years to inform us. Cheers.

To jump in too for our readers.

If you google phantom draft Knightmare with the given year you’re interested in, it usually comes up.

It’s fascinating to go back to profiles written a few years back.

But agree would be wonderful to see the lists say past ten years.

 

[Rohan25]

Here's a few. Great reads.

2012: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/hinesight-knightsight-and-hindsight.981606/

2013: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/hinesight-knightsight-and-hindsight-end-of-2013.1041937/

2014: http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/knightsight-v-hinesight-v-hindsight.1082834/

2015: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/knightsight-v-hinesight-v-hindsight.1118177/

2017: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/knightsight-hinesight-and-hindsight.1182775/

 

[Knightmare]

Here's a few. Great reads.

2012: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/hinesight-knightsight-and-hindsight.981606/

2013: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/hinesight-knightsight-and-hindsight-end-of-2013.1041937/

2014: http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/knightsight-v-hinesight-v-hindsight.1082834/

2015: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/knightsight-v-hinesight-v-hindsight.1118177/

2017: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/knightsight-hinesight-and-hindsight.1182775/

Did I do one 2016?

If not I still have those I would have taken just for the archives?

The one year I'm dirty on and what I posted doesn't even reflect what I thought at the time.

But I was all for in Wright (instead of Laverde) in 2014 - with Moore and McKenzie. Three of the four best KPPs that year as I saw them.

I wasn't following my own rules of going best available no matter what that year. Temporary moment of madness thinking there was such a thing as going too tall and having too many good talls.

 

[Rohan25]

Did I do one 2016?

If not I still have those I would have taken just for the archives?

The one year I'm dirty on and what I posted doesn't even reflect what I thought at the time.

But I was all for in Wright (instead of Laverde) in 2014 - with Moore and McKenzie. Three of the four best KPPs that year as I saw them.

I wasn't following my own rules of going best available no matter what that year. Temporary moment of madness thinking there was such a thing as going too tall and having too many good talls.

I couldn’t find 2016, would love to see the comparison if you still have the info.

I’d like you to update the hindsight section on some of those earlier ones too if you have the time. Cheers.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Knightmare im sure I’ve read somewhere you’ve posted an analysis with saying you’d go in retrospect

1. De Goey
2. Heaney

If memory serves it was originaly pistes a year or two later?

 

[well left]

Did I do one 2016?

If not I still have those I would have taken just for the archives?

The one year I'm dirty on and what I posted doesn't even reflect what I thought at the time.

But I was all for in Wright (instead of Laverde) in 2014 - with Moore and McKenzie. Three of the four best KPPs that year as I saw them.

I wasn't following my own rules of going best available no matter what that year. Temporary moment of madness thinking there was such a thing as going too tall and having too many good talls.

Had we followed your 2012 and taken Clurey instead of Kennedy we’d have a really well set backline!


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Knightmare]

I couldn’t find 2016, would love to see the comparison if you still have the info.

I’d like you to update the hindsight section on some of those earlier ones too if you have the time. Cheers.

Will see if I have time over the coming days. If not remind me in a weeks time and I'll update the hindsights.

Knightmare im sure I’ve read somewhere you’ve posted an analysis with saying you’d go in retrospect

1. De Goey
2. Heaney

If memory serves it was originaly pistes a year or two later?

I didn't feel like De Goey was the right pick in 2014. But he's certainly proven me wrong and looks like the right choice at 5.

Wright in a better situation (a club other than Gold Coast) would be a lot better than he is. But we can only in hindsight judge someone on who they actually become.

On Heeney v De Goey. Heeney at the time of the draft was clearly better. Still ahead of De Goey as a mid until De Goey proves otherwise, but De Goey's work as a forward is on another level and sets him apart from Heeney. If I can have only one of the two today, give me De Goey. But until this season, I don't think many of us would have gone that way.

Had we followed your 2012 and taken Clurey instead of Kennedy we’d have a really well set backline!


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Clurey is one while I was in support of drafting him in hindsight probably hasn't become as good as hoped. Defensively he isn't great and rebounding/intercepting needs to do more to justify his spot long term also honestly. Until Port find better, he's one of those 'good enough's'.

It was more Clurey over Broomhead and Hrovat over Kennedy. Probably both calls I give myself the edge on without feeling I identified the best players there. Though hindsight proves we rarely do.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Ben Kennedy is an interesting case study.

In his draft year as I recall, he was well thought of.

I think Melbourne got him off us because they still rated him, but I stand corrected on that.

He certainly had some talent, but too me almost from the get go two things worried me so to speak.

1) just not tall (and if you’re small you better bring a tony shaw or tony liberatore game ie something above average be it endeavour, getting the ball a lot etc).

2) disposal at the senior level and he seemed shaky.

But even trumping all that, that’s caused his afl demise, and I’m surmising here, dumbness be it attitude or whatever.

 

[Knightmare]

Ben Kennedy is an interesting case study.

In his draft year as I recall, he was well thought of.

I think Melbourne got him off us because they still rated him, but I stand corrected on that.

He certainly had some talent, but too me almost from the get go two things worried me so to speak.

1) just not tall (and if you’re small you better bring a tony shaw or tony liberatore game ie something above average be it endeavour, getting the ball a lot etc).

2) disposal at the senior level and he seemed shaky.

But even trumping all that, that’s caused his afl demise, and I’m surmising here, dumbness be it attitude or whatever.

Even before looking into specifics of his game.

Lack of improvement was why I said no to Kennedy. He was the same at 18 as he was 16. He was fully grown and grown into his body at 174cm at that time already. His lack of progress at AFL level to follow didn't surprise me.