Opinion Hinesight v Knightsight v Hindsight 2018

[TradeDraft]

I'm convinced either will live up to the expectations recruiters in clubland are placing on them over the long term. Would love to be proven wrong though.

You can't lose much really. Either you not Correct and have Guns for Collingwood or You are right and they don't quite live up to what they Club Predicts there Career to be.

Be very Interesting to Follow there Career's as all could be anything. Be a Gun or they could be a Boarderline Best 22 at Best

 

[Obese Arachnid]

I'm actually a big fan of the type of player you're describing, so much so that I always wanted it to be the Adelaide Tom Lynch that we were chasing and not the GC one. For me Tom Lynch sums up my feelings on the topic. He's a very good player and plays that hit up target who also turns his man around about as well as you can. For him to go from very good and become genuinely dominant, he doesn't need to get better at that part of the game. He needs to become better in a contest.

I think Murphy can become that Tom Lynch (Crow) player.

Unless he gets too tall.

 

[loki04]

I'm actually a big fan of the type of player you're describing, so much so that I always wanted it to be the Adelaide Tom Lynch that we were chasing and not the GC one. For me Tom Lynch sums up my feelings on the topic. He's a very good player and plays that hit up target who also turns his man around about as well as you can. For him to go from very good and become genuinely dominant, he doesn't need to get better at that part of the game. He needs to become better in a contest.

Unlike Lynch, Lukoisious has proven he can play deep as a KPF target too. I get your point having good contested hands obviously a good thing but there is more then 1 way to skin a cat.

Josh Kennedy has low CM numbers but is a premier KPF.

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pc-west-coast-eagles--joshua-kennedy?advv=Y
Year Team G CP UP ED DE% CM MI5 1% BO CL CCL SCL SI MG TO ITC T50

2018 Eagles 14 5.6 6.2 7.1 64.5 1.6 3.1 0.9 0 0.1 0 0.1 6.5 233.3 2.9 1.1 6.5
2017 Eagles 19 5.9 5.8 7.8 66.2 1.8 3.8 1.5 0 0 0 0 8.1 254.0 2.2 0.8 8.1
2016 Eagles 23 6.6 6.8 8.5 65 1.8 3.8 1.3 0 0.2 0 0.1 7.9 244.7 2.8 1.0 7.9
2015 Eagles 25 6.2 7.4 8.4 63.4 1.6 4.0 1.1 0.1 0.2 0 0.2 8.9 262.2 2.2 1.0 8.9
2014 Eagles 20 4.5 6.5 7.5 66.8 0.8 2.8 0.9 0.1 0.3
2013 Eagles 21 6.5 6.5 8.8 67.8 1.6 3.0 0.8 0.1 0.1
2012 Eagles 9 4.3 3.9 5.8 70.3 1.6 2.7 0.8 0.1 0.1
2011 Eagles 23 6.5 5.4 7.5 63.7 2.2 2.8 1.8 0.1 0.2
2010 Eagles 22 4.8 6.9 7.9 66.9 1.4 1.6 1.4 0.1 0.1

So a mature gun KPF is averaging 1.6 contested marks a game since 2010.

Lance Franklin reads similar:
https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pc-sydney-swans--lance-franklin?advv=Y

Year Team G CP UP ED DE% CM MI5 1% BO CL CCL SCL SI MG TO ITC T50
2018 Swans 19 6.8 8.8 9.2 60.8 2.0 3.2 1.8 0.4 0.2 0.1 0.1 8.5 402.0 4.2 0.9 8.5
2017 Swans 24 6.6 10.5 10.6 62.7 1.7 2.7 1.4 0.3 0.5 0.1 0.4 9.1 432.5 3.8 0.9 9.1
2016 Swans 26 6.8 11.3 11.5 65.2 1.6 2.9 1.9 0.4 0.4 0.1 0.3 8.7 394.4 4.4 1.4 8.7
2015 Swans 17 5.3 9.9 8.7 59.2 1.0 2.6 1.5 0.2 0.4 0 0.4 7.5 289.5 4.1 0.7 7.5
2014 Swans 22 7.3 9.6 10.6 63.8 2.3 3.5 1.3 0.4 0.5
2013 Hawks 21 7.4 8.7 10.4 66.6 1.2 2.2 1.8 0.1 0.7
2012 Hawks 19 8.8 10.4 11.5 62.3 2.0 3.6 2.0 0.9 0.6
2011 Hawks 22 8.2 10.4 12.4 68.1 1.8 4.1 1.4 0.6 0.7
2010 Hawks 18 8.4 9.6 11.8 66.6 1.8 2.5 1.6 1.0 0.5

Franklin has averaged just 1.7 CM since 2010.

Alot of high CM players are that way due to struggling to get into space or separation from opponents aka Cox.


So here is a game from him typical i might add vs peers:

Lukosius managed a best-on-ground performance for South Australia in their convincing 89-point thrashing of Western Australia. With 10 of his 14 kicks effective, Lukosius amassed 17 disposals, 14 marks (three contested), four goals and three score assists in another dominant performance.

If he can maintain a 2-3 CM a game at AFL level (when developed) that has him above modern guns Franklin and Kennedy.

Oh and for reference the person he is compared to Nick Riewoldt:

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pc-st-kilda-saints--nick-riewoldt?advv=Y
Year Team G CP UP ED DE% CM MI5 1% BO CL CCL SCL SI MG TO ITC T50 TOG%
2017 Saints 17 5.3 11.8 12.8 76.2 1.2 2.2 1.6 0.1 0.8 0 0.8 6.5 203.3 2.8 1.2 6.5
2016 Saints 21 5.3 15.9 15.4 74.3 1.6 2.6 1.4 0 0.6 0.1 0.5 7.2 321.0 3.6 2.0 7.2
2015 Saints 17 4.5 12.9 11.8 70 1.1 2.6 2.1 0 0.7 0.1 0.7 6.4 225.7 2.6 0.7 6.4
2014 Saints 22 5.7 10.8 11.8 70.8 1.4 2.4 1.5 0.1 0.1
2013 Saints 21 6.3 12.1 12.6 67.9 1.8 3.4 0.9 0 0.2
2012 Saints 19 6.5 8.0 10.6 73.2 1.6 2.9 1.9 0 0.2
2011 Saints 22 5.7 10.3 11.4 70.9 1.3 2.4 1.6 0 0.5
2010 Saints 15 7.7 9.3 11.6 67.7 2.4 3.8 1.7 0 0.4

N.Riewoldt averaged 1.55 CM per game from 2010 -2017.

 

[sr36]

Unlike Lynch, Lukoisious has proven he can play deep as a KPF target too. I get your point having good contested hands obviously a good thing but there is more then 1 way to skin a cat.

Josh Kennedy is has low CM numbers but is a premier KPF.

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pc-west-coast-eagles--joshua-kennedy?advv=Y
Year Team G CP UP ED DE% CM MI5 1% BO CL CCL SCL SI MG TO ITC T50

2018 Eagles 14 5.6 6.2 7.1 64.5 1.6 3.1 0.9 0 0.1 0 0.1 6.5 233.3 2.9 1.1 6.5
2017 Eagles 19 5.9 5.8 7.8 66.2 1.8 3.8 1.5 0 0 0 0 8.1 254.0 2.2 0.8 8.1
2016 Eagles 23 6.6 6.8 8.5 65 1.8 3.8 1.3 0 0.2 0 0.1 7.9 244.7 2.8 1.0 7.9
2015 Eagles 25 6.2 7.4 8.4 63.4 1.6 4.0 1.1 0.1 0.2 0 0.2 8.9 262.2 2.2 1.0 8.9
2014 Eagles 20 4.5 6.5 7.5 66.8 0.8 2.8 0.9 0.1 0.3
2013 Eagles 21 6.5 6.5 8.8 67.8 1.6 3.0 0.8 0.1 0.1
2012 Eagles 9 4.3 3.9 5.8 70.3 1.6 2.7 0.8 0.1 0.1
2011 Eagles 23 6.5 5.4 7.5 63.7 2.2 2.8 1.8 0.1 0.2
2010 Eagles 22 4.8 6.9 7.9 66.9 1.4 1.6 1.4 0.1 0.1

So a mature gun KPF is averaging 1.6 contested marks a game since 2010.

Lance Franklin reads similar:
https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pc-sydney-swans--lance-franklin?advv=Y

Year Team G CP UP ED DE% CM MI5 1% BO CL CCL SCL SI MG TO ITC T50
2018 Swans 19 6.8 8.8 9.2 60.8 2.0 3.2 1.8 0.4 0.2 0.1 0.1 8.5 402.0 4.2 0.9 8.5
2017 Swans 24 6.6 10.5 10.6 62.7 1.7 2.7 1.4 0.3 0.5 0.1 0.4 9.1 432.5 3.8 0.9 9.1
2016 Swans 26 6.8 11.3 11.5 65.2 1.6 2.9 1.9 0.4 0.4 0.1 0.3 8.7 394.4 4.4 1.4 8.7
2015 Swans 17 5.3 9.9 8.7 59.2 1.0 2.6 1.5 0.2 0.4 0 0.4 7.5 289.5 4.1 0.7 7.5
2014 Swans 22 7.3 9.6 10.6 63.8 2.3 3.5 1.3 0.4 0.5
2013 Hawks 21 7.4 8.7 10.4 66.6 1.2 2.2 1.8 0.1 0.7
2012 Hawks 19 8.8 10.4 11.5 62.3 2.0 3.6 2.0 0.9 0.6
2011 Hawks 22 8.2 10.4 12.4 68.1 1.8 4.1 1.4 0.6 0.7
2010 Hawks 18 8.4 9.6 11.8 66.6 1.8 2.5 1.6 1.0 0.5

Franklin has averaged just 1.7 CM since 2010.

Alot of high CM players are that way due to struggling to get into space or separation from opponents aka Cox.


So here is a game from him typical i might add vs peers:

Lukosius managed a best-on-ground performance for South Australia in their convincing 89-point thrashing of Western Australia. With 10 of his 14 kicks effective, Lukosius amassed 17 disposals, 14 marks (three contested), four goals and three score assists in another dominant performance.

If he can maintain a 2-3 CM a game at AFL level (when developed) that has him above modern guns Franklin and Kennedy.

Oh and for reference the person he is compared to Nick Riewoldt:

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pc-st-kilda-saints--nick-riewoldt?advv=Y
Year Team G CP UP ED DE% CM MI5 1% BO CL CCL SCL SI MG TO ITC T50 TOG%
2017 Saints 17 5.3 11.8 12.8 76.2 1.2 2.2 1.6 0.1 0.8 0 0.8 6.5 203.3 2.8 1.2 6.5
2016 Saints 21 5.3 15.9 15.4 74.3 1.6 2.6 1.4 0 0.6 0.1 0.5 7.2 321.0 3.6 2.0 7.2
2015 Saints 17 4.5 12.9 11.8 70 1.1 2.6 2.1 0 0.7 0.1 0.7 6.4 225.7 2.6 0.7 6.4
2014 Saints 22 5.7 10.8 11.8 70.8 1.4 2.4 1.5 0.1 0.1
2013 Saints 21 6.3 12.1 12.6 67.9 1.8 3.4 0.9 0 0.2
2012 Saints 19 6.5 8.0 10.6 73.2 1.6 2.9 1.9 0 0.2
2011 Saints 22 5.7 10.3 11.4 70.9 1.3 2.4 1.6 0 0.5
2010 Saints 15 7.7 9.3 11.6 67.7 2.4 3.8 1.7 0 0.4

N.Riewoldt averaged 1.55 CM per game from 2010 -2017.

I tried to look at the numbers, but it made my nose bleed.
I really have no idea about Lukosius. It's just that a combination of the highlights and the profiles leave me skeptical of his ability to dominate as a forward in the AFL. In terms of contested work, I wasn't just talking about marks. Buddy has never been an elite contested mark, but he's elite in a contest, because of his ability to put his opponent off balance and follow up at ground level. At his best, his balance and recovery were so good that it was like having twi blokes in a contest. Someone to compete in the air and then a top shelf front and centre crumber with Judd like ability to burst from the contest.
Kennedy's body work and hands are top shelf.
Riewoldt from the day dot had incredibly clean hands.
So considering the hype, I wasnt expecting to see highlights which showed a bloke who two grabbed a lot of his marks and also highlights without any examples of genuinely attacking the ball in the air or using his body effectively.

Nonetheless, I thiught he looked a good prospect, just not a generational superstar.
I am a s**t judge of kids though. Good luck to the boy. May he reign supreme, just not against us.

 

[Scodog10]

Unlike his VIC counter parts Lukosious hasn't been shielded from flooding given the SANFL doesn't have anti density rules like u18 vic tac/schools leagues. He leads long up the wings when needed as an outlet/connector and is very smart with turning players around back to goal etc. has very good forward nouse/craft imo. it's not necessarily a bad thing that he can work into space and break free of opponents.

It’s a good point you raise and is definitely an advantage he has over TAC KPF’s, but I still an see issue. Primarily that plenty of easy ball can be found at that level which then dries up at senior level.

The prime example from a Collingwood POV is Cox who was putting up numbers at that level which have been deified on here, by some, yet he’s never gone close to replicating them at the next level. The bigger issue for me is that Lukosious went to GC who’s ball movement is SANFL quality against AFL structures which is not a good recipe for a developing KPF who doesn’t sound strong in contested situations.

As someone that doesn’t follow this stuff anymore I’m heavily reliant on the views of others on here so I read. I took note of two lines of discussion about him the first was KM’s suggestion he could start on a wing, which weirdly seemed to offend Blues posters, and the second was Sr36’s suggestion he sounds like a defender. Both roles allow him to use his undoubted strengths earlier and from what I’ve read he could genuinely be a 20ppg+ type as soon as next year in either role and if he uses his smarts, especially in that wing role, he’ll kick a goal a game anyway. Could you imagine the fun he’d have on a wing v Phillips?

If I were a Suns fan I’d be keen to see him lining up away from the fwd third at least for the first season or two until a) they can bolster their midfield and b) get him some aerial support up fwd. The only caveat is Sam Day/ Crossley doing something in 2019, but I’d be playing it safe myself.

 

[loki04]

I tried to look at the numbers, but it made my nose bleed.
I really have no idea about Lukosius. It's just that a combination of the highlights and the profiles leave me skeptical of his ability to dominate as a forward in the AFL. In terms of contested work, I wasn't just talking about marks. Buddy has never been an elite contested mark, but he's elite in a contest, because of his ability to put his opponent off balance and follow up at ground level. At his best, his balance and recovery were so good that it was like having twi blokes in a contest. Someone to compete in the air and then a top shelf front and centre crumber with Judd like ability to burst from the contest.
Kennedy's body work and hands are top shelf.
Riewoldt from the day dot had incredibly clean hands.
So considering the hype, I wasnt expecting to see highlights which showed a bloke who two grabbed a lot of his marks and also highlights without any examples of genuinely attacking the ball in the air or using his body effectively.

Nonetheless, I thiught he looked a good prospect, just not a generational superstar.
I am a s**t judge of kids though. Good luck to the boy. May he reign supreme, just not against us.

Fair enough no one can guarantee AFL translation of junior form to seniors, so you may well be right, but given every AFL recruiter had him either number 1 ,2 or at worst 3 I'd suggest the talent is there.

The kid when played vs peers regularly hits the teen mark for marks, has kicked hauls of 4s 6s etc in SANFL against men in a quality league. Even last year when 17 he kicked 4 in a final. I'd say his contested numbers as a whole are fine.

As for the stats if you click the link you will read it better but the main one which I thought was contested marks (because you referenced his double grabs and contested work in same breath) was in bolded on here.

Those 3 all ave 1.5, 1.6 and 1.7 contested marks a game through the peaks of their careers. Generally due to them all being good at getting separation on a lead, fwiw Lukosious ground game is also excellent he often gets 15-25 disp mark.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-03-01/lukosius-shows-why-he-could-be-no1

BEFORE last week, the last time Jack Lukosius took to a football field it was in a senior SANFL preliminary final, when the athletic tall forward kicked four goals in a remarkably composed debut.

But in the South Australian under-18 trial match last weekend, Lukosius showed why he is one of the favourites to be the No.1 NAB AFL Draft pick this season by dominating the game at centre-half back.

The 196cm prospect gathered 25 disposals, took 14 marks and had six inside-50 entries in a dominant display that highlighted his range of skills and versatility.

Lukosius had recruiters excited last season when he played for South Australia at the under-18 championships, controlling a game against the Allies. His running patterns, marking and game smarts have shone, as has his disposal.

"He's one of the most graceful kicks I've seen for a tall player," one recruiter noted.

 

[loki04]

It’s a good point you raise and is definitely an advantage he has over TAC KPF’s, but I still an see issue. Primarily that plenty of easy ball can be found at that level which then dries up at senior level.

The prime example from a Collingwood POV is Cox who was putting up numbers at that level which have been deified on here, by some, yet he’s never gone close to replicating them at the next level. The bigger issue for me is that Lukosious went to GC who’s ball movement is SANFL quality against AFL structures which is not a good recipe for a developing KPF who doesn’t sound strong in contested situations.

As someone that doesn’t follow this stuff anymore I’m heavily reliant on the views of others on here so I read. I took note of two lines of discussion about him the first was KM’s suggestion he could start on a wing, which weirdly seemed to offend Blues posters, and the second was Sr36’s suggestion he sounds like a defender. Both roles allow him to use his undoubted strengths earlier and from what I’ve read he could genuinely be a 20ppg+ type as soon as next year in either role and if he uses his smarts, especially in that wing role, he’ll kick a goal a game anyway. Could you imagine the fun he’d have on a wing v Phillips?

If I were a Suns fan I’d be keen to see him lining up away from the fwd third at least for the first season or two until a) they can bolster their midfield and b) get him some aerial support up fwd. The only caveat is Sam Day/ Crossley doing something in 2019, but I’d be playing it safe myself.

Being drafted by the black hole of talent development that is GC yes it is a concern, if i was him Rankine and King i'd be out of there after year 2 if on and off field doesn't improve by then.

He definitely should be only a 3rd fwd until he has built his frame to handle the mantle, as we have seen from Moore its a tough gig for kids straight out the draft.

As for Cox as your example he's never put up *consistent* numbers at VFL or AFL level, and although he's only 3 years into an AFL career he is still a man vs a teenager.

See for yourself:
http://websites.sportstg.com/team_i...=199499023&client=1-118-10581-339767-20320235

He had 1 game that was excellent in VFL vs funnily enough Richmond. Both his standout games came vs Rich seems someone has a bunny.

Some of his VFL stats for a full grown man with an unprecedented reach advantage:

7 games at 0 goals, 8 games at 1 goal.
17 games 5 or less marks.
8 games with 6 or less disposals

Now i will leave the Cox talk there as I think he can develop some consistency in year 4, well hoping.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

I think Murphy can become that Tom Lynch (Crow) player.

Unless he gets too tall.

But can Tom Lynch (crow) become the next Nathan Murphy?

 

[sr36]

Fair enough no one can guarantee AFL translation of junior form to seniors, so you may well be right, but given every AFL recruiter had him either number 1 ,2 or at worst 3 I'd suggest the talent is there.

The kid when played vs peers regularly hits the teen mark for marks, has kicked hauls of 4s 6s etc in SANFL against men in a quality league. Even last year when 17 he kicked 4 in a final. I'd say his contested numbers as a whole are fine.

As for the stats if you click the link you will read it better but the main one which I thought was contested marks (because you referenced his double grabs and contested work in same breath) was in bolded on here.

Those 3 all ave 1.5, 1.6 and 1.7 contested marks a game through the peaks of their careers. Generally due to them all being good at getting separation on a lead, fwiw Lukosious ground game is also excellent he often gets 15-25 disp mark.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-03-01/lukosius-shows-why-he-could-be-no1

At the end of the day, I know absolutely nothing.
I generally don't comment on draftees, because I know anything about them. I only commented on this occasion because I was genuinely shocked by the highlights package. I was expecting to be wowed. Rankine on the other hand... Boy oh boy.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

At the end of the day, I know absolutely nothing.
I generally don't comment on draftees, because I know anything about them. I only commented on this occasion because I was genuinely shocked because I was expecting to be wowed. Rankine on the other hand... Boy oh boy.

Is Rankine like our Stephenson ie do a quick intro to footy and belong straight away?

Have a feeling we made like bandits last year’s draft with Stephenson- he is an absolute beauty

 

[sr36]

Is Rankine like our Stephenson ie do a quick intro to footy and belong straight away?

Have a feeling we made like bandits last year’s draft with Stephenson- he is an absolute beauty

Like I said I've got no idea, but he looks bloody exciting in his highlights package.

 

[Dynamics]

Is Rankine like our Stephenson ie do a quick intro to footy and belong straight away?

Have a feeling we made like bandits last year’s draft with Stephenson- he is an absolute beauty

Interestingly, the SANFL website lists Rankine as over 17 metres tall! Must have him confused with Nathan Murphy:
http://sanfl.com.au/draft/izak-rankine/

Aside from failings of the South Australian education system, the main difference I can see is that Stephenson has a nearly 10cm height advantage over Rankine.

Not to say Rankine's not tall enough to be a star, but I'll take the extra height any day.

 

[Heritier 09]

You’re a legend Knight. Basically on a hiding to nothing being a draft expert, but your level of knowledge and info is nothing short of sensational. You also take the time to respond to every poster, no matter how rude they are to you.
Yourself and snoop are an absolute beacon this time of year.
Fair to say you and the pies recruiters have come down on opposite sides regarding these 2 boys in particular, and only time will tell. So many variables when it comes to an AFL career.
1 thing I’m very confident on however, is that Dayne Beams is twice the footballer that Lyons, or Hannebery (circa 2019) are, and thrice the footballer that Aaron Hall is. And hearing that 12 players took pay cuts to get him there gives me the sense that the playing list is in an awesome space. It’s going to be a great few years!


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[cleomenes]

The rat pack?

If you're a good team. You can win with 'personalities.' You just need the strong leadership and buy-in from the playing group.

Lyons is a guy who has improved year on year, so he's not someone who is making anyone worse or hurting a culture. He's one of the premier stoppage players in the competition.



He's not as strong of a contested grab as a Riewoldt and can agree he has at times been two grab, though that's improved this year and isn't really an issue.

With his marks because he creates separation on the lead so easily and pushes up the ground so high that no one will reasonably follow him, and get back to goal quicker than defenders can, he'll just keep getting uncontested mark after uncontested mark.

He isn't a pack crasher, but he gets to the drop of the ball each time and times his moves towards the ball perfectly so his contested mark numbers are still very reasonable.

I'm not sure why anyone would compare Lukosius to Wayne Carey.

Jonathon Brown was comparable to Wayne Carey. Just as Lukosius is comparable to Nick Riewoldt. Lukosius is a much sweeter kick than Riewoldt but isn't certainly at this stage - while a prolific mark - not as strong of a one grab and contested mark.

Lukosius (with correct development) can become the best in the competition and one of two unstoppable players who have the impact of two (the other is our own Brodie Grundy).

I do love the reasoned approach that you bring to these discussions. Unlike most of us, you do have a base on which to base your opinions. Mine are only based on what I see on TV, and therefore suspect every time, while being non-existant for the draft players, as I have never seen anything of them.
I may disagree with you after the event in hindsight when I get to see how they go, but I can't fault your processes.
Thanks for your continued efforts and your willingness to shrug off the less respectful of your critics.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Well said.

We have three of the best draft posters on our board in KM, SD and P4L.

All bring so much rich knowledge, detail all in different ways.

We gain Quaynor and Kelly as an example and through outboard’s draft experts I feel I know them better already.

Ofcourse their performances dictate ultimately and sometimes we just disagree, but that’s fine too.

It’s no secret I have been a long term Matthew Scharenberg fan simply because what I saw and heard early doors was essentially one word “poise”.
Or Sier just on instinct I liked him.
But I’m guessing, and our 3 are basing it on hours of watching and on detail.

KM not as keen as SD on Quaynor and Kelly so what. Better we have all the views.

For what it’s worth I think Kelly will be the best of the drafted 3, but that’s pure guessing on my part.

 

[loki04]

At the end of the day, I know absolutely nothing.
I generally don't comment on draftees, because I know anything about them. I only commented on this occasion because I was genuinely shocked by the highlights package. I was expecting to be wowed. Rankine on the other hand... Boy oh boy.

Yeah Rankine will be an out an out star so long as his attitude and work ethic is good.

 

[loki04]

Is Rankine like our Stephenson ie do a quick intro to footy and belong straight away?

Have a feeling we made like bandits last year’s draft with Stephenson- he is an absolute beauty

He can slot right in his evasion, vision and speeds elite with excellent foot skills.

 

[Albert Parker]

Like I said I've got no idea, but he looks bloody exciting in his highlights package.

I watched Rankine kick 3 goals 2 pts in the first quarter of the game against Vic Metro to decide the National U18 Championships. That game was over at quarter time due to his influence. As Brenton Phillips says, he's the best underage player he has seen in South Australia - ahead of Wingard, (Lukosius, Grundy, Sharenberg or whoever else you care to add.) The only dual AA player from this year's draftees. As noted in the year prior's All-stars game, they got him to change teams to even the contest at half time (were 45 points up at half time and then his team won the 2nd half)
He was top 3 in the combine sprint results, No 1 in agility, Top 5 standing vertical leap which he can turn into a pack mark and has terrific 'one touch' hands and plenty of tricks (was top 10 in the goal kicking test too).
If you look at what the recruiters said post draft, there were quite a few who nominated Rankine as their No 1 pick.

 

[Big Bryza]

Top of mind: *including minidraft my hasty re-do of 2012 top 10:
Grundy
*Hogan
Daniher
Wines
Macrae
Viney
Z.Williams
Whitfield
Stringer
Hunter

Cracking top end picks in that draft plus Hogan etc. One of the best ever.

 

[sr36]

Top of mind: *including minidraft my hasty re-do of 2012 top 10:
Grundy
*Hogan
Daniher
Wines
Macrae
Viney
Z.Williams
Whitfield
Stringer
Hunter

I like most of it, but Williams over Whitfield seems odd to me. I reckon Whitfield is poised to explode.

 

[Knightmare]

Cracking top end picks in that draft plus Hogan etc. One of the best ever.

Nice top end but after that the draft weakens quite substantially.

I like most of it, but Williams over Whitfield seems odd to me. I reckon Whitfield is poised to explode.

That's one for me where it depends on what you value.

Whitfield is the better accumulator and better up the field. Runs all days.

While Williams missed last season, I favour his game feeling it's more complete and if I need someone deep in defence he's the much better option. He's a genuine two way player who beats his direct opponent and is one of the best stoppers in the game, wins his 1v1s but then still finds and wins a lot of it and hurts opponents with his penetrating kicking and speed as a high metres gained player. He'd be the first general defender I'd selected from any team to start with and can be slotted into a back pocket and expected to win his position.

If Williams gets back to his 2017 form, which isn't unreasonable, I like him more than 2018 Whitfield who remains too outside and if used in defence isn't winning his 1v1s like Williams does almost every time.

 

[Albert Parker]

I like most of it, but Williams over Whitfield seems odd to me. I reckon Whitfield is poised to explode.

Whitfield's AA in 2018 doesn't seem to count for much?

Lachie Hunter just won Bulldogs B&F. Rank him above overrated Stringer too.

 

[TradeDraft]

What would you have done with our Picks we had IF we did not have Father Son and NCA Kids?

 

[Prochard123]

Nice top end but after that the draft weakens quite substantially.



That's one for me where it depends on what you value.

Whitfield is the better accumulator and better up the field. Runs all days.

While Williams missed last season, I favour his game feeling it's more complete and if I need someone deep in defence he's the much better option. He's a genuine two way player who beats his direct opponent and is one of the best stoppers in the game, wins his 1v1s but then still finds and wins a lot of it and hurts opponents with his penetrating kicking and speed as a high metres gained player. He'd be the first general defender I'd selected from any team to start with and can be slotted into a back pocket and expected to win his position.

If Williams gets back to his 2017 form, which isn't unreasonable, I like him more than 2018 Whitfield who remains too outside and if used in defence isn't winning his 1v1s like Williams does almost every time.

This to me is a bit shaky. I watched him closely in 2017 due to being very strong on him having a breakout season in late 2016, so I ended up picking him in SuperCoach in multiple formats.

From the games I’ve watched Williams often had little exposure to oppositions dangerous forwards and played a very similar HBF/Wing role as Whitfield did this year.


-He didn’t even play exclusively HB, having rotated up the ground to a wing or a contest VERY FREQUENTLY. So his exposure to defensive responsibilities was highly limited.
-When he did play in defence, Gws played him on weaker forwards to take advantage of his run and carry.

Whitfield to me is just flat out superior player in just about every way except for like you said their 1v1 ability, with both of them not being very convincing.

There’s a reason why teams at times tagged Whitfield ahead of the damaging Josh Kelly late this season.

 

[Knightmare]

This to me is a bit shaky. I watched him closely in 2017 due to being very strong on him having a breakout season in late 2016, so I ended up picking him in SuperCoach in multiple formats.

From the games I’ve watched Williams often had little exposure to oppositions dangerous forwards and played a very similar HBF/Wing role as Whitfield did this year.


-He didn’t even play exclusively HB, having rotated up the ground to a wing or a contest VERY FREQUENTLY. So his exposure to defensive responsibilities was highly limited.
-When he did play in defence, Gws played him on weaker forwards to take advantage of his run and carry.

Whitfield to me is just flat out superior player in just about every way except for like you said their 1v1 ability, with both of them not being very convincing.

There’s a reason why teams at times tagged Whitfield ahead of the damaging Josh Kelly late this season.

When I look at defenders I'm considering: one-on-one defence, intercept marking and rebound.

One-on-one the difference is stark. Whitfield is a liability 1v1 while Williams can be relied on consistently to beat his man.

Intercepting and rebounding Whitfield I give slight edges to. Winning the contested ball Williams is much better and he's the more explosive runner but isn't as much of an intercept marking threat, nor is he nearly as good of a kick or the endurance runner Whitfield is.

Whitfield is the better up the field, but if I want a deep defender who will beat his man and rebound, Williams is my guy.

Williams has a lot more Heath Shaw to him. Wins his 1v1s and rebounds while Whitfield is more like a more productive Kade Simpson.

Absolutely Whitfield is someone you want to stop as he covers the ground like crazy and uses it very well + he's someone you can tag out of games as the contested side of his game is so/so. But he's also someone who can be exploited. Drag him deep and he'll struggle which can't be said of Williams which is a dynamic if forced to choose between the two I'd avoid.