Analysis Hird or Thompson: Your decison

[VelvetSledge]

It is a sack Hird thread.

It really isn't.

It's a poll asking who the supporters would prefer.

 

[Beerfish]

It is a sack Hird thread. How the **** can Thompson be Senior Coach without sacking Hird?

Doss has already outlined a couple of ways it might occur.

I will call it now.. IF Hird isn't senior coach next year.. our club will not recover for 10-15 years at a minimum. Not to mention that Hird would be entitled to sue the s**t out of the club and would win easily.

Well that's your call. I think it's a bit over the top.

 

[Lord Nicholson]

Oh, Christ.

James Hird being a club champion has nothing to do with him being a coach. That's the kind of horseshit that gets us into this mess in the first place. Like it or lump it, he's the senior coach. His playing career, his achievements for the club have already given him unprecedented latitude, both before this whole mess was unpackaged and now, in a scenario where on the same day we sustain, as a club, the worst penalties in league history, he gets a 2 year contract extension. Sure, it's sticking fat with someone who is a part of this club. It's also probably the least pragmatic thing ever. It is something that would be afforded to no one else ever in that scenario. This idea that we're leaving him out in the cold is insane - he's only got the job because of who he is, and arguably that's where the mistake was. No one else has got a senior gig with such feeble experience. Not since the days of the captain/coach, anyway. We screwed over numerous parties to make that happen, what's more. I don't condemn those actions, I supported them then and I support them now as what was necessary at the time, but they did happen nonetheless.

So, no, the Essendon Football Club is not as dramatically in debt to James Hird as some of the more incendiary opinions on here would have me believe. Or at least not in my eyes. I'm not opposed to him returning next year at all, although it's far from the decision I would have made were I in Little's position. Whatever will be will be, as long as the club gets to where it needs to be, the personnel involved is unimportant. A flag helmed by Jobe Watson and James Hird is no better than a flag helmed by... Brendon Goddard and Mark Thompson, or David Myers and Nathan Bassett. It's an Essendon team and an Essendon coach taking us to the ultimate success - lineage is a luxury, not a necessity.

As for this childish bullshit about "Ohhh, if we do this we're Carlton, you're Carlton, **** you you're pissweak" what a load of ****ing drivel. You know who was the last Essendon player to coach us before Hird? Barry Davis, and we dumped his sorry arse and moved onto Sheeds because it was the best thing for the club. Good club man? Legendary player? Great, you'll always be remembered as such, but the brownie points that get redeemed when you move into coaching get chewed up pretty quickly. Hird is a titan within this club, but no one, not one single individual is above the collective - if they are then you have a fundamentally sick club that is doomed to fail until it finally gets its s**t in order.

And as for treating the '13 results as gospel, you kinda have to factor in the off-field stuff as having some degree of impact on the on-field. To think that the whole thing just happened in total isolation and is a pure football result seems a bit simplistic to me, but maybe I'm reading too much into what happened. Either way, any way you want to measure James Hird against Mark Thompson as a coach, the word could is going to have to factor into support for Hird. You can make all the arguments you want, but effectively you are indeed making the argument that Scott Watters could be a better coach than Norm Smith. You just never know.

 

[The Speaker]

Doss has already outlined a couple of ways it might occur.

How realistic is it?

 

[Jab]

I'm just glad we only have four more weeks of *certain* people posting that we will be better with Thompson.

Everyone knows my thoughts. I'm disappointed that this was raised on the board, again, by a certain individual.

Why are you having a personal shot? Not one person has mentioned you in this thread. The thread is topical as it has been spoken about by every major football related media, or all forms, and other areas of BigFooty and other forums.

If you continue to act like a princess you will be reminded of the site rules. Pull your head in and stop acting like a child. This is a relevant topic and posters are free to discuss it, despite your opinion on the matter.

 

[GUMBLETRON]

Doss has already outlined a couple of ways it might occur.

Given we're delving into semantics here, a couple of comparisons:
- Was Malthouse sacked?
- If Knights had been offered a return to the Bendigo gig, would he still count as having been sacked?

 

[The Prosecutor]

Oh, Christ.

James Hird being a club champion has nothing to do with him being a coach. That's the kind of horseshit that gets us into this mess in the first place. Like it or lump it, he's the senior coach. His playing career, his achievements for the club have already given him unprecedented latitude, both before this whole mess was unpackaged and now, in a scenario where on the same day we sustain, as a club, the worst penalties in league history, he gets a 2 year contract extension. Sure, it's sticking fat with someone who is a part of this club. It's also probably the least pragmatic thing ever. It is something that would be afforded to no one else ever in that scenario. This idea that we're leaving him out in the cold is insane - he's only got the job because of who he is, and arguably that's where the mistake was. No one else has got a senior gig with such feeble experience. Not since the days of the captain/coach, anyway. We screwed over numerous parties to make that happen, what's more. I don't condemn those actions, I supported them then and I support them now as what was necessary at the time, but they did happen nonetheless.

So, no, the Essendon Football Club is not as dramatically in debt to James Hird as some of the more incendiary opinions on here would have me believe. Or at least not in my eyes. I'm not opposed to him returning next year at all, although it's far from the decision I would have made were I in Little's position. Whatever will be will be, as long as the club gets to where it needs to be, the personnel involved is unimportant. A flag helmed by Jobe Watson and James Hird is no better than a flag helmed by... Brendon Goddard and Mark Thompson, or David Myers and Nathan Bassett. It's an Essendon team and an Essendon coach taking us to the ultimate success - lineage is a luxury, not a necessity.

As for this childish bullshit about "Ohhh, if we do this we're Carlton, you're Carlton, **** you you're pissweak" what a load of ****ing drivel. You know who was the last Essendon player to coach us before Hird? Barry Davis, and we dumped his sorry arse and moved onto Sheeds because it was the best thing for the club. Good club man? Legendary player? Great, you'll always be remembered as such, but the brownie points that get redeemed when you move into coaching get chewed up pretty quickly. Hird is a titan within this club, but no one, not one single individual is above the collective - if they are then you have a fundamentally sick club that is doomed to fail until it finally gets its s**t in order.

And as for treating the '13 results as gospel, you kinda have to factor in the off-field stuff as having some degree of impact on the on-field. To think that the whole thing just happened in total isolation and is a pure football result seems a bit simplistic to me, but maybe I'm reading too much into what happened. Either way, any way you want to measure James Hird against Mark Thompson as a coach, the word could is going to have to factor into support for Hird. You can make all the arguments you want, but effectively you are indeed making the argument that Scott Watters could be a better coach than Norm Smith. You just never know.

POTY.

 

[The Prosecutor]

Given we're delving into semantics here, a couple of comparisons:
- Was Malthouse sacked?
- If Knights had been offered a return to the Bendigo gig, would he still count as having been sacked?

Voss coached the AIS Academy for a year or two.

 

[Ben the Gooner]

Alright, I promised a detailed argument and here it is.


The fundamental reason I believe Thompson should be coach is because he, quite simply, more likely to lead us to a premiership than Hird in my opinion.

OK, to deconstruct this like the Fairfax style drivel that it is.

Thompson has proven himself already as a two-time premiershop coach in the modern era after developing and honing arguably the greatest team era of them all, Geelong. Compare this to Hird whose only coaching credential prior to this was coaching the Prahran U9’s.

Strawman.

Hird has been a senior coach for three years, and has had the club playing the best footy we've seen for a decade. Those are his credentials, not your petty cheap shot.

While people here seem to love screaming and pointing at our 13-3 record in 2013 (funnily enough, these posters seem to like ignore what happened there after), Thompson has implemented an obvious new gameplan which I believe is far more sustainable in the years to come and will allow us to play our best football week in, week out.

What happened afterwards? You mean the bit where the players were told their season was over and stopped trying? Look at Fletcher's malicious snipe on Cripps (totally out of character) and tell me he gave a s**t about the season? Look at the stats before and after the Hawthorn game and tell me the players gave a s**t about the season.

As for the new gameplan, you must be referring to the reversion to the gameplan of the previous three years after the stagnant, sideways rubbish of the first half of the year. Strong team defence, good zone, fast ball movement from stoppages, and willingness and desire to switch whenever possible? That's what the team looked like when we were winning games well in 2012 and 2013, and funnily enough is what our best football in 2014 has looked like. Obviously it's been an improvement from year to year (although we haven't hit our 2013 heights with it yet, there's still hope given we've only been at it for a couple of months this year), but that's the same as 2013 from 2012 and 2012 from 2011.

Further to this, Thompson’s stated goals have all come to fruition this season all the while he has been implementing this new gameplan and blooding many youngsters (Ambrose, Merrett, Gleeson, Ashby, Van Unen) while giving game time to many others who had not played many games. This goes in hand with his recruitment of Chapman to the team.

Having debunked the "new gameplan" furphy, let's look at the young players.

Ambrose picked himself by virtue of being one of three fit tall forwards given TBC's injury at the start of the year and some player-driven list changes (i.e. Crameri and Gumbleton). Merrett was actually dropped after two flashy but unsubstantial games as sub, before forcing his way back in with totally unexpected (by everyone) form. The others have played a handful of games between them. Not at all dissimilar to Kommer, Merrett and Baguley playing (IIRC) 53 games between them in 2013 as first or second year players, plus cameos from Daniher et al.

As for Chappy, you're dreaming if you think Hird wasn't involved in the discussions surrounding that one.

Of Thompson’s goals, we approach the final five games of the year after winning eight of our past eleven – two of which we were winning with only a couple of minutes remaining. We are running out the season strongly like he stated and our gameplan is such that, like top teams such as Hawthorn, Geelong and Fremantle, that even with star players out we are still capable of going out and clinically getting a result.

Hold up! Clinically getting results? A career-best performance from one of the most talented players on the list dragging us over the line against a mediocre Footscray isn't clinically getting results, especially in the context of conceding red-time last quarter leads against Hawthorn, Melbourne and Geelong, and conceding 5-6 goal leads against St Kilda, Collingwood and Melbourne (again). That's 5 of our 7 losses being indicative of a team that's anything but clinical.

Clinical might be described as winning games like Fremantle away by less than a kick, West Coast away after trailing for most of the second half, Carlton twice very late, as well as ruthlessly destroying a very good Richmond team with unstoppable zone defence.

Thompson famously put his gonads on the line with Carlisle and boy haven’t we been rewarded in recent weeks while Thompson’s work to develop the players in to onfield leaders has been an astounding success.

Ripper move, stoked it's paid off. You're dreaming if you think that wasn't a) driven by Hurley's body to at least some extent; and b) discussed with Hird.

Further to this, Thompson’s gameday coaching has been fantastic this season, on numerous occasions this year he has produced masterclasses to get us over the line.

I'll grant you the absolute masterclass against Port, and I'll even grant you the novelty value of the stagnant s**t against North. I won't grant you the Collingwood win, because there was nothing structurally out of the ordinary there, that was just the pinnacle (thus far) of the gameplan of the last four years.

I'll also raise you the debacles against St Kilda and Melbourne, and the ridiculous losses to Geelong, Hawthorn and Collingwood. Bomber's quick to blame the players, and at a premiership contender, the players would probably have taken it upon themselves to plug things up, but Bomber's there to coach the players. If they're playing with too high a line, or they're not pushing back into defence late, maybe send the runner out? You know, like a coach does?

I also believe a great guide to a good coach is that he doesn’t just mentor the playing group, but also those who work under him. Thompson has played a strong part in mentoring the likes of Ken Hinkley, Brenton Sanderson, Brendan McCartney and since people like to bring him up, Hird.

This is so far down the list of relevant factors to this discussion as to not be worth any more time.

On the issue of him only wanting to do it for this year, what else is he meant to say? He’s between a rock and a hard place and can’t just come out now and say he wants to stay coach for next year. In fact, the only noise we’ve heard during this year is that he’s open to senior coaching elsewhere which says far more than people seem to want to give credit to.

Actually all the noise we've heard has been to say "I'm not ruling anything in or out" in a myriad of different ways. "I don't even know what I'm doing on Monday" was the latest. But good mind-reading.

It’s obvious as **** that his passion for senior coach has been reignited with this year.

Is it? I need to get my psychic skills sorted out.

Maybe, just maybe, he's having a ton of fun with it because he knows he's under no pressure, it's Hird's team next year.

For as much as people want to bleat on about Hird being a club legend, Thompson, just quietly, may have played in a few for Essendon of which he quite possibly captained one of them.

No doubt he is. I love having our two most recent premiership captains together at the club.

There's also no suggestion of totally shafting Bomber, which makes the legend aspect irrelevant to the discussion.

Now, people will try and claim he should be senior assistant and he will be happy to work under James again. Well, good luck with that. I’ll put my gonads on the line right now and say that Thompson will not coach under James Hird. Thompson genuinely is sick of Hird’s s**t, in this isn’t me speculating. Can you blame him? It will be an absolute circus with Hird coming back and for what, to cuddle Hird’s bruised ego?

Oooh, the mind-reading is getting better and better. Ignoring the blatant vitriol and pettiness of the last line (seriously, * off with that rubbish), you're guessing and calling it fact. Well ******* done Caro.

HIrd, whether you like it or not, signed up fully understanding that he was hired as a senior coach like anyone else. Under his direction, the club received the big penalties in AFL/VFL history FFS – a great example of short-sightedness as opposed to Thompson (who was against the program and wanted to focus on actual football than some bullshit scientific supplement bullshit) who has implemented and developed us this year for the long term while also getting short term results.

"You know my thoughts on supplements.
1. It must not harm the player
2. It must not be illegal (according to WADA and AFL drug guidelines)
3. We must get player consent"

But cool, it's all Hird's fault yeah.

As for the players, they thought they had a deal where they wouldn’t receive any penalties and that they were all good. A lot has changed since Hird has left. Besides, I reckon the majority would be quite happy for Thompson to stay TBH. No bullshit, no media circus and a proven coach who gets results.

Ooh, Caro would be proud of that sentence. "We know something that disputes my point was true. We have no further evidence of any change, but something could have changed (don't ask me to prove it, grow up), so maybe it's changed".

I’ve always said I’ll fondly remember Hird the player, but he coach, he pales significantly in comparison to Thompson and I for one, won’t forsake this generation of players and a premiership just to stick one up Caro with the delusion that doing so will somehow get us anywhere productive.

You know, I don't think having the team playing better footy "pales significantly in comparison" somehow.

In any case, it could well be that ASADA sorts this out on their own accord anyway.

In which case Bomber is gone and your point is irrelevant.

I want a premiership, and Thompson is firmly the man to bring that.

Unsubstantiated.

And I won’t quietly watch Thomspon go to Richmond or North ******* Melbourne and coach them to a premiership while a proven novice brings the circus with him to our team and squanders a generation.

Funnily enough, pandering to the media circus is behaviour more fitting of those two clubs than ours. As for the idea that we should sack a club champion to spite Richmond or North, well...

If Hird does return, then obviously I hope I’m proven wrong and I’ll be the first one to admit it. But nothing I have seen suggests I am.

I think we all hope you're wrong on Hirdy.

Finally, to anyone who thinks this makes me any less of an Essendon supporter, kindly go **** yourself you thundercampaigner. Flame away.

No one thinks you're less of an Essendon fan. What we're saying is that you're suggesting the club behaves in a very un-Essendon way. A Carlton sort of way.

 

[GUMBLETRON]

Less qualified than Voss then. That's quite something.

 

[Jab]

Our side struggled in the last half of 2013, they struggled in the earlier/mid part of 2014. Hird was signed as head coach with Bomber helping him. I see no reason why the two of them can't resume the roles they planned. What has happened this year hasn't really changed my opinion.

 

[pepsi]

A flag helmed by Jobe Watson and James Hird is no better than a flag helmed by... Brendon Goddard and Mark Thompson, or David Myers and Nathan Bassett. It's an Essendon team and an Essendon coach taking us to the ultimate success - lineage is a luxury, not a necessity.

James Hird is one of, if not the best, player to play for the club. That is undisputed.

He is yet to prove himself as a great coach of the sport. That is not putting him down in any way at all, it is just the truth.

But s**t I would love to see Jobe and James lift the cup on Grand Final day.

 

[The Speaker]

I don't see how a hypothetical that isn't going to happen is relevant for discussion.

Certainly it doesn't make for much of an analysis. Perhaps we need a category called 'Fantasy', in which we can debate the relative merits of the two as coaches (which is, of course, a difficult thing to do in and of itself). As it is, this is about more than coaching skill (known or potential).

 

[The Speaker]

A flag helmed by Jobe Watson and James Hird is no better than a flag helmed by... Brendon Goddard and Mark Thompson, or David Myers and Nathan Bassett. It's an Essendon team and an Essendon coach taking us to the ultimate success - lineage is a luxury, not a necessity.

For who?

For the history books? Sure. There's little emotional attachment to something that happened long ago.

For us? There certainly is emotional consideration.

 

[Ben the Gooner]

No, I do not want him sacked, so stop representing it as such. I do not want the club to wash its hands of him, I want the club to get him back into the fold but a little more gradually.

There is a large difference between that and sacked. If you don't agree, that's your prerogative, but s**t, don't flat out accuse me of thinking something I don't.

There's really not. You either want him in the role that he is contracted for, or you want that contract terminated.

As I said earlier, for Bomber to coach, Hird does not need to be sacked. Apart from The Prosecutor, I haven't seen anyone on this board call for his head. Hird could choose to not return, or as Doss pointed out, if he deems it to be in the best interests of the club, Hird could voluntarily work in a role whereby he works in a background role for 2015 and takes over in 2016. Now it may be that the players, want him back ASAP, or they may want it to happen more gradually or not at all (I doubt the latter). I don't know. They and those at the club are far better placed to make that decision than you or I.

Hang on, is he voluntarily stepping back or "voluntarily" stepping back? Given the circumstances of his suspension (i.e. declining to clear his name for the greater good of the club), it's certainly not going to be voluntary.

rines you seem to have some insight into the inner workings of the club. Do you know how the players feel about this issue?

It's not a sack Hird thread rines. It simply asks who Bomber supporters would prefer as senior coach next year.

You prefer Hird. That's fine. Others prefer Bomber. That's fine too. There doesn't have to be a single, valid argument as to why one is right and one is wrong and people aren't insane or crazy because they prefer one to the other. It's an opinion and everyone here is entitled to theirs without having their sanity or club allegiance called into question.

It is a sack Hird thread though. Having Bomber as coach means Hird's contract as coach for 2015-6 is terminated. End of story.

How realistic is it?

Not

Why are you having a personal shot? Not one person has mentioned you in this thread. The thread is topical as it has been spoken about by every major football related media, or all forms, and other areas of BigFooty and other forums.

If you continue to act like a princess you will be reminded of the site rules. Pull your head in and stop acting like a child. This is a relevant topic and posters are free to discuss it, despite your opinion on the matter.

Why is rines singled out there? Torrents of abuse are directed her way on a weekly basis, Pros posted one of the most vitriolic posts of the thread before, yet rines is singled out for your first post on the board in months.

Given we're delving into semantics here, a couple of comparisons:
- Was Malthouse sacked?

Yes

- If Knights had been offered a return to the Bendigo gig, would he still count as having been sacked?

Yes

 

[Lord Nicholson]

For who?

For the history books? Sure. There's little emotional attachment to something that happened long ago.

For us? There certainly is emotional consideration.

When Sheeds stepped up onto the dias in '84, you'd have to be a pretty sad human to have thought at the time "Well, yeah. But he's not one of us."

 

[Ben the Gooner]

Oh, Christ.

James Hird being a club champion has nothing to do with him being a coach.

You're quite right. It has nothing to do with him being a coach.

It has everything to do with him not being stabbed in the back.

To have his team taken away from him, the team he reluctantly halted his business career to take over after being implored by the club, having declined to defend his own name and reputation, just about the most important thing for a man with a reputation such as Hirdy's, on the understanding that he'd be back as coach - that would be morally reprehensible. To do that would be a man as important to the club as Hirdy would be the day that we stop being a club and start being a soulless franchise.

 

[The Speaker]

When Sheeds stepped up onto the dias in '84, you'd have to be a pretty sad human to have thought at the time "Well, yeah. But he's not one of us."

Who would think that?

If were to assume the emotion of winning under Myers/Bassett is 100%, then under Hird/Watson it would be 125% (or somesuch). It would amplify the victory.

 

[rines]

OK, to deconstruct this like the Fairfax style drivel that it is.



Strawman.

Hird has been a senior coach for three years, and has had the club playing the best footy we've seen for a decade. Those are his credentials, not your petty cheap shot.



What happened afterwards? You mean the bit where the players were told their season was over and stopped trying? Look at Fletcher's malicious snipe on Cripps (totally out of character) and tell me he gave a s**t about the season? Look at the stats before and after the Hawthorn game and tell me the players gave a s**t about the season.

As for the new gameplan, you must be referring to the reversion to the gameplan of the previous three years after the stagnant, sideways rubbish of the first half of the year. Strong team defence, good zone, fast ball movement from stoppages, and willingness and desire to switch whenever possible? That's what the team looked like when we were winning games well in 2012 and 2013, and funnily enough is what our best football in 2014 has looked like. Obviously it's been an improvement from year to year (although we haven't hit our 2013 heights with it yet, there's still hope given we've only been at it for a couple of months this year), but that's the same as 2013 from 2012 and 2012 from 2011.



Having debunked the "new gameplan" furphy, let's look at the young players.

Ambrose picked himself by virtue of being one of three fit tall forwards given TBC's injury at the start of the year and some player-driven list changes (i.e. Crameri and Gumbleton). Merrett was actually dropped after two flashy but unsubstantial games as sub, before forcing his way back in with totally unexpected (by everyone) form. The others have played a handful of games between them. Not at all dissimilar to Kommer, Merrett and Baguley playing (IIRC) 53 games between them in 2013 as first or second year players, plus cameos from Daniher et al.

As for Chappy, you're dreaming if you think Hird wasn't involved in the discussions surrounding that one.



Hold up! Clinically getting results? A career-best performance from one of the most talented players on the list dragging us over the line against a mediocre Footscray isn't clinically getting results, especially in the context of conceding red-time last quarter leads against Hawthorn, Melbourne and Geelong, and conceding 5-6 goal leads against St Kilda, Collingwood and Melbourne (again). That's 5 of our 7 losses being indicative of a team that's anything but clinical.

Clinical might be described as winning games like Fremantle away by less than a kick, West Coast away after trailing for most of the second half, Carlton twice very late, as well as ruthlessly destroying a very good Richmond team with unstoppable zone defence.



Ripper move, stoked it's paid off. You're dreaming if you think that wasn't a) driven by Hurley's body to at least some extent; and b) discussed with Hird.



I'll grant you the absolute masterclass against Port, and I'll even grant you the novelty value of the stagnant s**t against North. I won't grant you the Collingwood win, because there was nothing structurally out of the ordinary there, that was just the pinnacle (thus far) of the gameplan of the last four years.

I'll also raise you the debacles against St Kilda and Melbourne, and the ridiculous losses to Geelong, Hawthorn and Collingwood. Bomber's quick to blame the players, and at a premiership contender, the players would probably have taken it upon themselves to plug things up, but Bomber's there to coach the players. If they're playing with too high a line, or they're not pushing back into defence late, maybe send the runner out? You know, like a coach does?



This is so far down the list of relevant factors to this discussion as to not be worth any more time.



Actually all the noise we've heard has been to say "I'm not ruling anything in or out" in a myriad of different ways. "I don't even know what I'm doing on Monday" was the latest. But good mind-reading.



Is it? I need to get my psychic skills sorted out.

Maybe, just maybe, he's having a ton of fun with it because he knows he's under no pressure, it's Hird's team next year.



No doubt he is. I love having our two most recent premiership captains together at the club.

There's also no suggestion of totally shafting Bomber, which makes the legend aspect irrelevant to the discussion.



Oooh, the mind-reading is getting better and better. Ignoring the blatant vitriol and pettiness of the last line (seriously, **** off with that rubbish), you're guessing and calling it fact. Well ******* done Caro.



"You know my thoughts on supplements.
1. It must not harm the player
2. It must not be illegal (according to WADA and AFL drug guidelines)
3. We must get player consent"

But cool, it's all Hird's fault yeah.



Ooh, Caro would be proud of that sentence. "We know something that disputes my point was true. We have no further evidence of any change, but something could have changed (don't ask me to prove it, grow up), so maybe it's changed".



You know, I don't think having the team playing better footy "pales significantly in comparison" somehow.



In which case Bomber is gone and your point is irrelevant.



Unsubstantiated.



Funnily enough, pandering to the media circus is behaviour more fitting of those two clubs than ours. As for the idea that we should sack a club champion to spite Richmond or North, well...



I think we all hope you're wrong on Hirdy.



No one thinks you're less of an Essendon fan. What we're saying is that you're suggesting the club behaves in a very un-Essendon way. A Carlton sort of way.

Here Here and Well Done.

The best part is pointing out the 'furphy' that we have gone forwards this year under some great 'Thompson inspired' radical game plan.. I just shake my head. We have seen some of the ugliest footy ever played this year.. and our current game plan (like the one that is working) is far closer to that of last year.. like before Thompson 'tweaked' it.. not to mention that Thompson has coached the side to less wins than last year.. You really can't count anything that happened after about Round 18 when it become clear to the club that it was all for nought.

As to the Carlisle forward.. I agree Thompson took that theory to its limit.. and has enjoyed success over the last weeks.. but some short memories seem to have forgotten that Carlisle had been thrown forward a lot last year.. I think the stat was 18% of game time.. ie HIGHER than we all thought.. and he won us two games UP FORWARD last year too.. so I think it is a move that has been considered for some time. So YES Thompson made the change... but I'm not sure it was as 'radical' as some would now like to paint.

Had the AFL not decided to create a witch-hunt against our club and run an illegal investigation with ASADA.. then Hird would have continued the improvement that he had already made with the list and the club. Either way there is only one direction this GROUP is going.. and that is up the ladder.

The fact that we have stagnated and gone backwards this year SHOULD show why Hird is the best choice for coach.. and then you throw in a contract, champion status and the fact that the man fell on his sword for this club.. and it adds up to a clear result.

 

[Doss]

I think it's best we just leave this for the night.

Nothing good is going to come from continuing this in the frames of mind we're in.