Historical Figures you can't stand and why?

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Procrastinator35 said:
The bloke brought both liberation & independence to an entire nation through peaceable means, single-handedly....And yet, you want want to bitch & moan about him getting a bit of tottie on the side.....FMD.:rolleyes:

And you don't get to be a highly educated lawyer through the British Empire by being a bludger either.

India now produces more PhD students world-wide than any other country.
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India is our great white hope to world peace
 
Darkyprotector said:
To be fair
We should mention
His solution to the japanese invasin (give em qld Northern Territory and wa )
His refusal to develop industry and our natural resources and lack of foresight ( sheeps back)
His white australia policy
Hey lucky labour had balls to stand up to the English toad
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ahem. Whose WAP?
 

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medusala said:
ahem. Whose WAP?
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Mate if you haven't woken up and are still spouting that tune in today's society
You ain't worth having a conversation with
And I believe most on here agree
I take note your a hawthorn supporter , sort of sums it all up for me, all for one and none for all
Suits your attitude , selfish, biased and non emphatic
Go and knell at glibs alter mate or better still ask him why if he's so smart he didn't factor in the population growth next time at la dolce vita and follow up if he's personally gonna give something back from those DEEEEP POCKETS
Love his legacy as did his mates, really created heaps for all victorians
Your idol no doubt a legend
 
_Wildcard_ said:
17th Century... hell of a lot of raping and pillaging going on around that time, all over the globe. The Ottoman Empire alone was responsible for a hell of a lot more damage and death in the the seventeenth century than the English.
Seriously, if you want someone to hate on for killing a few people hundreds of years ago for spurious reasons, go check out the Ottoman rulers of the 17th Century. Fun times.
Ibrahim I had his harem (all of them, a couple of hundred by most accounts) drowned because he thought one of them had done the dirty.
Henry the Eighth was an amateur.
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Being Irish and descended from moors , I have no problem with the ottomans as they did litttle against my lot
Certainly have a huge problem with Britannia though who have lived off everyone else for centurys
Bullying
Opium smuggling and inflicting that on a sovereign country
Creation of child labour
Concentration camps
Slaughter of indigenous populations
Creation of our reserve banking system
Encouragement of class system
Slavery
All these affected my family
They have pillaged EVERY CONTINENT , ottomans no
So the winner is GREAT (un) Britain
 
_Wildcard_ said:
17th Century... hell of a lot of raping and pillaging going on around that time, all over the globe. The Ottoman Empire alone was responsible for a hell of a lot more damage and death in the the seventeenth century than the English.
Seriously, if you want someone to hate on for killing a few people hundreds of years ago for spurious reasons, go check out the Ottoman rulers of the 17th Century. Fun times.
Ibrahim I had his harem (all of them, a couple of hundred by most accounts) drowned because he thought one of them had done the dirty.
Henry the Eighth was an amateur.
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*.

Churchill and Great Britain were happy to starve 4 million plus Indians 70 years ago.

Churchill especially has a long history of concentration camps and genocide last century.

This isn't old history. Plenty of arseholes amongst all sorts
 
Happy Mastenator said:
This isn't old history. Plenty of arseholes amongst all sorts
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Isn't that what I said?
Old mate Darky has a bit of a perspective issue is all.
Runs around bleating about others not having "empathy" while publicly stating he doesn't care about what anyone else did (other than the Brits) because they didn't do it to him... or "his".

Descended from Moors and Irish, he reckons. Doesn't mean much, the Moors weren't actually an ethnic or cultural singular group so it's a bit hard to imagine exactly what he's referring to... Arabs, Berbers, might even mean he's a descendant of Muslim Europeans. Who knows... he probably doesn't any more than I do.
Ummayads? Maybe.

The Moors invaded Italy (it wasn't Italy then, I'm using the term as a geographical reference) back in the 9th and 10th centuries, I think it was, which is basically one reason the southern Italians are a dark haired lot now while those in the north are (were) still sometimes blond (from their "barbarian" Germanic ancestors).
You can see the same thing in the Spanish, because the Moors went that way too (damn near made it as far as Barcelona), and stayed there until the Christian kingdoms got pissed off about being their subjects, banded together and kicked them back to Africa where they came from during the Reconquista.

The ones in Italy pretty much made it into a Muslim nation the same way they did in Spain until the Byzantines (precursors to the Ottomans) came along and decided they'd rather it wasn't, and then the Normans decided the whole lot of them could go to hell and took it for themselves.
And then... along came the Papal States, who took a lot of land for themselves before realising that it was easier and more profitable to rule hearts and minds than oversee territorial gains.

Moors, Byzantines, Normans... poor old Italian tribes didn't get much of a say in anything really. Didn't end there either, most of Italy was a collection of city-states under the control of one mob or another until fairly recently, historically speaking.

And as for the Irish... I'm sure there are quite a few young ladies who would prefer that they'd never been born in Ireland at all, without going into too much detail. And, of course, by remaining neutral in the last century during World War 2 it made it fairly obvious they didn't give a damn what else Hitler did as long as he was against the Brits. Screw the Poles and the Jews anyway.
So I suppose that's where his "don't care as long as you don't do it to me" attitude comes from.

So there we go, 2 minute history for angry kiddies.
Darkyprotector had better watch his back, because if we're all to be held accountable for the deeds of our ancestors, there would be an awful lot of Spaniards, Italians, Greeks, French, Jews, Poles and lovely flame haired Irish lasses who would like nothing more than to fly him out into the middle of the Ocean in a helicopter and shove him out of an open door for the fish to feed on.
 
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Darkyprotector said:
To be fair
We should mention
His solution to the japanese invasin (give em qld Northern Territory and wa )
His refusal to develop industry and our natural resources and lack of foresight ( sheeps back)
His white australia policy
Hey lucky labour had balls to stand up to the English toad
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It was Menzie's Immigration Minister Harold Holt that dismantled the White Australia Policy.
 
Todman said:
It was Menzie's Immigration Minister Harold Holt that dismantled the White Australia Policy.
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Assisted and pressured by labour

But suppose in the history of Australia the coal a lition are due 1 decent act

Could have made it 2 if fizzer had the balls to condemn trump but he's no hawke and not worth cleaning his windows or his bum

An embarrassment to the country, although better than the Christian zealot , which ain't saying much

No leadership, no honesty, no direction
 
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medusala said:
oh the humour. Captain Barbary Pirate got no issues with slave trading then one assumes.
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No that's fact , not humour

Shouldn't assume as you just need re programming , clean all that crap out of between your ears , maybe you then might get some balance

Ass out of you and me
 
Robert Mugabe, Saddam Hussien, Adolf Hitler, James Hird, Pol Pot, Wayne Jackson, John Kerr, Oliver Cromwell, The Inquisition lot that do not know the names, James Hird, Vlad The Impaler, Idi Amin, Al Gaddafi, The Kim sung lot
 
Darkyprotector said:
Assisted and pressured by labour
But suppose in the history of Australia the coal a lition are due 1 decent act
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https://www.smh.com.au/opinion/10-myths-about-gough-whitlam-20141208-122v4b.html

2. He abolished the White Australia policy.

A fading myth. Commentators, Bob Carr being the most recent, give a greater role to the Coalition's Harold Holt. Whitlam did abolish the vestiges. Yes, a bit like the vestiges of Australian involvement in Vietnam.

3. He ran a big immigration program.

Yes and no. Multiculturalism is unambiguously a legacy of Whitlam, but the all-white, all-male cabinet embraced it warily. The first half of the government featured, in Al Grassby, an immigration minister who won plenty of publicity, favourable and not so, for his flamboyant style and lairy dress sense. After Grassby's electoral defeat in May 1974 immigration was scaled back in response to the economic crisis. And Whitlam's unwillingness to allow Vietnamese anti-communist refugees into Australia is regarded now as hideous racism.
 
Darkyprotector said:
Assisted and pressured by labour

But suppose in the history of Australia the coal a lition are due 1 decent act

Could have made it 2 if fizzer had the balls to condemn trump but he's no hawke and not worth cleaning his windows or his bum

An embarrassment to the country, although better than the Christian zealot , which ain't saying much

No leadership, no honesty, no direction
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Whitlam nearly lost the leadership for supporting the end of the WAP because many in the left saw supporting the removal of the WAP as a betrayal, he only barely survived that leadership challenge and had he lost the leadership then the ALP would have gone back to being fully supportive of it.
 
Unpopular but Churchill.

War mongerer and failed general. Lucked into the PMship when a bastard was needed to get rid of an even bigger bastard. Gave a good speech and that was it.

A man for his time but don't really see the idolship.
 
Run n Spread said:
Unpopular but Churchill.

War mongerer and failed general. Lucked into the PMship when a bastard was needed to get rid of an even bigger bastard. Gave a good speech and that was it.

A man for his time but don't really see the idolship.
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yep

the campaigner Britain had to have
 
Sellout Scully said:
William Shakespeare.

As well as ruining every high school student's English experience, this guy is actually incredibly overrated.

There's evidence to suggest he plagiarized some of his work, including Hamlet. He was a narcissist and always wanted to act in his own plays as a minor character, even though it was apparent he actually couldn't act.

People hail him for being a 'creative mastermind', even though all he did was invent new words and phrases when he couldn't think of anything else to write. Seriously, if you write a piece of work now and just throw made-up words in there now, people will think you're nuts. Any idiot can invent a word.

The only reason he's held in such high esteem is that as a retirement present, scribes made copies of all his works so they weren't lost. There were many other much better writers in the same era such as Thomas Kyd and Christopher Marlowe, many of whose works were lost because copies weren't made.

Also I don't like Isaac Newton but apparently he died a virgin so I guess there is karma after all.
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Also enjoyed a sniff or 4 of snuff with the royals.

Modern translation= Was a celebrity coke head
 
Run n Spread said:
Unpopular but Churchill.

War mongerer and failed general. Lucked into the PMship when a bastard was needed to get rid of an even bigger bastard. Gave a good speech and that was it.

A man for his time but don't really see the idolship.
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A lot of Australians really don't like him due to Curtain wanting to return the AIF divisions to defend Australia instead of protecting British interests in North Africa and the failure of the Singapore Strategy (which is a tad unfair to blame the British on this, the Australian military and politicians knew that the strategy was deeply flawed).
 
Run n Spread said:
Also enjoyed a sniff or 4 of snuff with the royals.

Modern translation= Was a celebrity coke head
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Shakespeare was the Beatles. So much we laud from them was others.

Except the Beatles didnt get discovered fifty to a hundred years later

The Beatles were a collaboration too. As was the Shakespeare stuff. The guy himself didn’t ever claim it was all his ie not J K Rowling

If their was a Beatles revival in fifty years time, and it was all described as strictly Lennon-mcCatrney, no others. That’s how it went


The entertaining bit is the authorship question, where lots of other recent famous names have lined up on one side or the other.
Pretty amazing so many otherwise respected people arguing over who is the single Shakespeare author when it’s a very easy argument to make that it was a huge collaboration

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shakespeare_authorship_question
 
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Todman said:
https://www.smh.com.au/opinion/10-myths-about-gough-whitlam-20141208-122v4b.html

2. He abolished the White Australia policy.

A fading myth. Commentators, Bob Carr being the most recent, give a greater role to the Coalition's Harold Holt. Whitlam did abolish the vestiges. Yes, a bit like the vestiges of Australian involvement in Vietnam.

3. He ran a big immigration program.

Yes and no. Multiculturalism is unambiguously a legacy of Whitlam, but the all-white, all-male cabinet embraced it warily. The first half of the government featured, in Al Grassby, an immigration minister who won plenty of publicity, favourable and not so, for his flamboyant style and lairy dress sense. After Grassby's electoral defeat in May 1974 immigration was scaled back in response to the economic crisis. And Whitlam's unwillingness to allow Vietnamese anti-communist refugees into Australia is regarded now as hideous racism.
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Apparently the old fiddler Ted Heath as PM refused to send British troops to Vietnam. Slight respect
 
Power Raid said:
Stalin would be right up there for the worst leaders of all time

just cruel
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Invented the gulag system. North Korea still realing from the effects of the personality cult + cruel repression. Evil personified. (Chilling what the Russian army did as well under his watch)

Lenin at least restrained himself but was an agent of change not a leader.

Marx should've stuck being a unionist instead of creating a half arsed system.
 
Run n Spread said:
Invented the gulag system. North Korea still realing from the effects of the personality cult + cruel repression. Evil personified. (Chilling what the Russian army did as well under his watch)

Lenin at least restrained himself but was an agent of change not a leader.

Marx should've stuck being a unionist instead of creating a half arsed system.
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a great idea but horrendous execution

automation might make the system more viable in the future and we'll no doubt revisit a similar but different system in time
 
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