Are you serious? Which aspect/s of the death do you think they want investigated? Are there inquiries every time somebody kills themselves? Or would it be more common in extraordinary circumstances?No they haven't. When asked if they welcomed an inquiry into their daughter's death they responded in the affirmative. That's not the same as saying they support an inquiry into 33 year old rape allegations that they reportedly believe are confected and embellished.
Exactly. You don't know. i don't know. You're just cherry-picking second and third-hand reported information to suit your confusing defence of Porter.Have you been reading the thread? It's been discussed in the last few pages. Respond to any posts you disagree with on those points.
No evidence? 30 years of claims about the incident? A 30 page dossier by an incredibly intelligent person, vouched for by high-achieving friends and peers? A proven history of misogyny by the accused?I'm yet to see substantial supporting evidence. All I've seen so far is barely reported inconsistencies. Despite that, I said earlier that I believe the probability that that Porter is telling the truth to be 85%. For many others in this thread it seems their stance is a 100% belief he is lying and this will not change regardless of what new evidence appears.
According to some in the Catholic education system Pell has been accused of multiple other offences and is likely guilty. The court didn't see it that way (eventually).It seems no one has learnt from the other Louise Milligan hit job (Pell) including Milligan herself.
How about the aspect that a vulnerable mental patient who had just been discharged from a Melbourne psychiatric facility had to self isolate/quarantine due to Covid restrictions at her home immediately upon returning to Adelaide and committed suicide a few days into this quarantine.Are you serious? Which aspect/s of the death do you think they want investigated?
Given the context surrounding release of the media statement (i.e. national outcry about alleged rape by the A-G) I suspect that the parents would have specified if they wanted an enquiry specifically into the potential contribution of home quarantine towards their daughter's death. Perhaps time will tell.How about the aspect that a vulnerable mental patient who had just been discharged from a Melbourne psychiatric facility had to self isolate/quarantine due to Covid restrictions at her home immediately upon returning to Adelaide and committed suicide a few days into this quarantine.
If you have suicidal thoughts during the COVID-19 pandemic, find out how to get help. If you're worried about someone else, learn suicide warning signs.www.mayoclinic.org
Given the context surrounding release of the media statement (i.e. national outcry about alleged rape by the A-G) I suspect that the parents would have specified if they wanted an enquiry specifically into the potential contribution of home quarantine towards their daughter's death. Perhaps time will tell.
The second inquiry, however, is likely to be a coronial inquest in South Australia, where the alleged victim died. While suicides are mostly not the subject of an investigation, relying instead on police reports about the circumstances of death, it is difficult to see the South Australian Coroner not launching an inquest. The strong national interest in the case, the alleged victim’s ongoing contact with the NSW Police until the day before she died, and the difficulties COVID restrictions imposed on her contact with her family and other supports are all reasons that such an inquiry would be held.
Just a comment that I hadn't known is all.And the point of mentioning it was?
and later why did you you feel the need to tell us about your debating stage fright experience?Let the witch hunt begin
I did one then got stage fright at another and that was it
Lol grow up. Seems I hit a nerve.Just a comment that I hadn't known is all.
Not sure why you've adopted that tone and why you're giving me the third degree on this. Are we going to question the motives of every post in this thread?
That will open a real can of worms.
Oh the irony. You question the point of one of my posts and I in response simply examine the point of two of yours and your response is "grow up"?? Seems I hit one of your tender nerves and being confronted with your own hypocrisy was too much. It doesn't excuse your patronising tone but I couldn't care less. Maybe you should take your own advice about growing up.Lol grow up. Seems I hit a nerve.
I'm not sure how making such an aside "dismisses Milligan's credentials" as you put it. Maybe you can explain the connection because I can't see it.I asked because the tone of your comment seemed to be dismissive of Milligan's credentials because 'she was a friend'
Tingle is well known as an anti liberal despite having worked at the Australian for several years. Listen to her and Adams on a Monday night as I do as a penance. She never presents more than 1 side of the story. If possible, to the left of Corbyn.If he doesn't stand down, I don't think an inquiry, whether a fit and proper for the role of Attorney General test or other can be avoided.
Lawyers call for Attorney-General Christian Porter to be subjected to the same standard of accountability as others in the legal profession
Laura Tingle and James Elton
Posted 6ddays ago, updated 5ddays ago
Prominent lawyers are calling for Attorney-General Christian Porter to be subjected to the same codes of conduct as many others in the legal profession, as Prime Minister Scott Morrison continues to reject calls for an independent inquiry into the serious allegation that, as a 17-year-old, Mr Porter raped a 16-year-old girl in 1988 — an allegation which he strenuously denies.
But there is increasing disquiet in the legal community about the Prime Minister's stance.
This disquiet has nothing to do with any suggestion of criminal action by Mr Porter, but to the damage being done to the role of Attorney-General, and through it our legal institutions, when such a grave allegation is left hanging unresolved over the country's first law officer.
Sydney barrister Tom Brennan suggests that, rather than Mr Porter being subjected to a different standard to the rest of the community, the government is asserting that the first law officer need not face the scrutiny faced by Australians in professions across the entire community — which includes the professional conduct regimes faced by lawyers.
"There's a whole range of different standards that apply to different Australians working in different jobs," Mr Brennan told 7.30.
"We lawyers are subject to Professional Regulation, [which includes] where the regulator may look at things that have nothing to do with our practice of law, or if they reflect on our suitability to practice.
"It's undoubtedly the case that the Law of Professional Regulation recognises that conduct of the kind of subject to this allegation may constitute professional misconduct, in that it renders the person unsuitable to work as a professional.
"So, it's something that could possibly be investigated by the legal regulator."
'Fit and proper' person for the profession
Two Melbourne academics — including Julian Webb from Melbourne Law School — are now in the process of lodging a complaint against Mr Porter.
"The proposal is that we put a request in to the legal practice board of WA to consider whether Christian Porter should be considered as a fit and proper person to be a member of the legal profession," Mr Webb told 7.30.
"A number of us involved in this would have liked to have seen further inquiries of and by the Solicitor-General, as has been suggested.
"But if that is not the move forward, then this seems to us to be one of the few remaining options to ensure accountability, and to ensure that the Federal Attorney-General — the Commonwealth's most senior officer — is held to the same standards of accountability as any other lawyer in Australia.
"That is a job for the legal practice boards."
Investigating an allegation of child sexual assault
In the same way, teachers and others who deal with children are subject to working with children regimes that demand any complaint of sexual assault must be investigated by a body which would have the powers of a Royal Commission.
The woman at the centre of the historical rape allegation faced by the Attorney-General was 16 at the time of the alleged assault — meaning she was a child in the eyes of the law," Mr Brennan said.
"The state and territories have very special regimes for dealing with allegations of child sexual assault.
"They require that a whole raft of people report any allegation — not only allegations that have been investigated by police.
"It makes findings on the balance of probabilities not to a criminal standard.
"That's not a regime which applies to Commonwealth Ministers, but it's certainly a regime which the rule of law in Australia recognises and enforces.
"Every teacher, every childcare worker, every priest, every rabbi, every mufti is subject to a regime of mandatory reporting and mandatory investigation of any allegation of child sexual assault."
Lawyer takes issue with Morrison's response
Victorian barrister Jess Moir says there were problems in the signals the Prime Minister was sending in his treatment of the allegation.
"To say that an allegation of abuse, of rape, is only relevant for the purposes of the police is to deny your own responsibility — the responsibility that all of us have — to work on creating a culture that keeps everybody safe," she told 7.30.
"The issue that I take with Scott Morrison's response is that he said very publicly that he declined to read the dossier of materials that was provided to him, and instead he elected to be briefed on the contents of that dossier.
"In doing that, he turned away from the substance of the allegation in the alleged victim's own words.
"It just undermines everybody's sense that if they raise a complaint, that leaders will listen to them and care about what they have to say."
Code of conduct for ministers
Finally, there is the question of a code of standards that doesn't apply to average Australians, but does apply to a special group — the Ministerial Code of Conduct.
The updated set of standards released by Scott Morrison when he became Prime Minister said the Australian people deserved a government that would act with integrity and in the best interests of the people they serve.
But the Prime Minister continued to only address the potential criminality involved in the allegation, and not the broader implications of the controversy.
"He's a fine Attorney-General and a fine Minister for Industrial Relations and he is an innocent man under our law," Mr Morrison said.
Lawyers call for Porter to be subjected to the same standard of accountability as others in the legal professionThe Prime Minister rejects calls for an independent inquiry into historical rape allegation against Attorney-General Christian Porter, but prominent lawyers say there are other codes of conduct that may apply.www.abc.net.au
Tingle told her audience on the 7:30 report that Shorten's accuser's case had been dismissed. Kind of misleading.Tingle is well known as an anti liberal despite having worked at the Australian for several years. Listen to her and Adams on a Monday night as I do as a penance. She never presents more than 1 side of the story. If possible, to the left of Corbyn.
A complaint from someone with apparently no reported mental health issues. She says the police *did* take a brief of evidence to the DPP and it was the *DPP* who did not want to proceed. Quite a contrast in the way the media have dealt with the two cases.Tingle told her audience on the 7:30 report that Shorten's accuser's case had been dismissed. Kind of misleading.
It is a very different response to Porter's allegations. One mitigating (for want of a better word) factor is that the Police investigated the claims against Porter and the DPP decided it would be unlikely there would be a successful prosecution. A 'non-mitigating' factor is that Shorten's accuser made her claims pre-#metoo. Even though it was only 7 years ago, I feel that sexual misconduct allegations are treated more seriously now, with people more likely to accept the probability that accusers are telling the truth. I think Shorten should step down from whatever it is that he does these days and allow a formal, non-criminal inquiry into the allegations to take place. I think his accuser's claims are credible (drinking and smoking pot, leading to non-consensual sex early in the morning) and should be fully investigated in a public forum. The guy could have been PM FFS.A complaint from someone with apparently no reported mental health issues. She says the police *did* take a brief of evidence to the DPP and it was the *DPP* who did not want to proceed. Quite a contrast in the way the media have dealt with the two cases.
This whole thing is a mess of conflicts and it's showing us why our Attorney General needs to be better.Australia’s defamation laws are broken. How do we know?The Attorney General told us so.In 2019, at the national press club in 2019, AG Christian Porter commented, “I think it is fair to say that current defamation laws no longer strike the perfect balance between public interest journalism and...www.change.org
The cases are very similar. Does Shorten's accuser have less credibility because she is still alive?There might be a bit of room to raise allegations against Shorten but they were dealt with a decade ago. That's a long time passed and we don't want to open this thread up to partisan mud slinging, it doesn't belong on this board.
I hope I won't be needing to remind everybody of how different the two cases are and that Porter's accuser has died.
The matter with Shorten was dealt with, he was interviewed, the allegations investigated by the police and they ran it past the DPP who determined there was no hope of a conviction. They might have done the same thing with Porter but we'll never know because the process wasn't completed and his accuser is dead. It's a mess.The cases are very similar. Does Shorten's accuser have less credibility because she is still alive?
When I start defending Porter you can say I'm being partisan.
Shorten's case wasn't pursued because there wasn't enough evidence to get a conviction in a 30-year old rape case. To say the Porter case is different is drawing a very long bow.The matter with Shorten was dealt with, he was interviewed, the allegations investigated by the police and they ran it past the DPP who determined there was no hope of a conviction. They might have done the same thing with Porter but we'll never know because the process wasn't completed and his accuser is dead. It's a mess.