Historical rape allegation against the Attorney-General Christian Porter

[Slartibartfast]

point me to an example of a high up boss having an inquiry into something they are alleged to have done at 18, >30 years after the fact where there is no connection to the workplace and with a complainant that is dead.

i’ll wait.

If you google workplace inquiry you will see a heap of companies and law firms advertising their services.

 

[Cactus_]

TW

an unfortunate reality for the he said she said rape cases.

She said: I said “no” to penetrative sex, I was drunk and fell asleep, and I work up to find he was anally raping me.

He said: I remember it as a very happy time (in his press conference, today).

PS. “he said she said rape cases” is to put it mildly a very suspect phrase. It basically implies without direct physical evidence, eye witness accounts, etc there is no way to determine guilt of innocence. Incorrect, juries make judgments all the time about the credibility (or otherwise) of witness.

PPS. I judge Christian Porter to lack credibility.

 

[Slartibartfast]

point me to an example of a high up boss having an inquiry into something they are alleged to have done at 18, >30 years after the fact where there is no connection to the workplace and with a complainant that is dead.

i’ll wait.

The question is

Why dont you want the rapist to have a chance to clear his name???

 

[checkraiseulite]

TW


She said: I said “no” to penetrative sex, I was drunk and fell asleep, and I work up to find he was anally raping me.

He said: I remember it as a very happy time (in his press conference, today).

PS. “he said she said rape cases” is to put it mildly a very suspect phrase. It basically implies without direct physical evidence, eye witness accounts, etc there is no way to determine guilt of innocence. Incorrect, juries make judgments all the time about the credibility (or otherwise) of witness.

PPS. I judge Christian Porter to lack credibility.

the difference here is the accuser gives evidence and is cross examined so that the accuser can test their evidence.

given the accuser is dead (as well as >30 years having passed) here the accused will never have the opportunity which, as you acknowledge, is why there will never be a prosecution.

 

[Slartibartfast]

the difference here is the accuser gives evidence and is cross examined so that the accuser can test their evidence.

given the accuser is dead (as well as >30 years having passed) here the accused will never have the opportunity which, as you acknowledge, is why there will never be a prosecution.

Thats right, so he can clear his name by an inquiry.
Nothing new about inquiries outside the legal framework.

 

[Slartibartfast]

SA coroner still may get involved .

 

[checkraiseulite]

Thats right, so he can clear his name by an inquiry.
Nothing new about inquiries outside the legal framework.

hypothetically, how would he definitively prove his innocence here?

 

[Kurve]

the difference here is the accuser gives evidence and is cross examined so that the accuser can test their evidence.

given the accuser is dead (as well as >30 years having passed) here the accused will never have the opportunity which, as you acknowledge, is why there will never be a prosecution.

He will be judged and it's quite right to do so, as to his suitability as Attorney General and whether he can continue or not. That will require an independent inquiry.

Even if he throws the towel in, all the circumstances leading up to the complainant's death as it relates to those in parliament, the press and the police will need to be thoroughly investigated as well. It cannot just be swept under the rug, the accounting needs to be done.

 

[Slartibartfast]

hypothetically, how would he definitively prove his innocence here?

A judge would assess all the evidence put forward. It is not about him proving his innocence. That is just a line that porter has run with which would never be the case in an inquiry

 

[checkraiseulite]

A judge would assess all the evidence put forward. It is not about him proving his innocence. That is just a line that porter has run with which would never be the case in an inquiry

difficult to reconcile with

Thats right, so he can clear his name by an inquiry.

 

[Slartibartfast]

difficult to reconcile with

An inquiry would determine guilt or innocence

 

[checkraiseulite]

An inquiry would determine guilt or innocence

ok i give up

 

[Cactus_]

hypothetically, how would he definitively prove his innocence here?

Let’s see, here’s one very simple example of how one tiny portion of an investigation could go:
- Gather evidence (such phone records of the deceased)
- Compare evidence to on the record statements of the accused (“I haven’t had any contact with her for 33 years”)
- See if the accused is lying or telling the truth

The accused in this this case would know all about this sort of thing having worked as a prosecutor himself as part of his life dedicated to public service.

 

[checkraiseulite]

Let’s see, here’s one very simple example of how one tiny portion of an investigation could go:
- Gather evidence (such phone records of the deceased)
- Compare evidence to on the record statements of the accused (“I haven’t had any contact with her for 33 years”)
- See if the accused is lying or telling the truth

The accused in this this case would know all about this sort of thing having worked as a prosecutor himself as part of his life dedicated to public service.

and the the small matter of the alleged rape?

 

[Slartibartfast]

ok i give up

Think your caught up in the legal framework of a court. You need to let that go.

An inquiry would be given a terms of reference for judge to work by , evidence is presented, judge given opportunity to Assess evidence and make requests for more detail then make a decision.
We are talking about an ex judge, not someone from HR.
They are very capable of assessing people and what they say And any evidence presented.

 

[Cactus_]

and the the small matter of the alleged rape?

?

What I was saying is that an investigation could:
- gather evidence
- take statements
- look for inconsistencies
- judge the credibility of witnesses
- and finally make a determination

Could an investigation be done into a 33 year old rape? Yes. Investigations have been done into decades old war crimes where the victims are dead.

Will an investigation result in a criminal rape conviction against Christian Porter and a jail sentence? Definitely not.

Could an investigation make an adverse finding against Christian Porter that would lead people to conclude he was not a fit and proper person to hold high office? It’s possible.

Could an investigation conclude that there is insufficient evidence to make any findings against Christian Porter? Also possible.

 

[theyellowsash]

hypothetically, how would he definitively prove his innocence here?

I'm assuming you believe noone has ever been raped because how can you prove it without something like video evidence.

 

[theyellowsash]

the difference here is the accuser gives evidence and is cross examined so that the accuser can test their evidence.

given the accuser is dead (as well as >30 years having passed) here the accused will never have the opportunity which, as you acknowledge, is why there will never be a prosecution.

Pretty sure the rape and murder of the girl in princess park had a conviction with a dead victim

 

[checkraiseulite]

Pretty sure the rape and murder of the girl in princess park had a conviction with a dead victim

the cctv and the killer turning himself in might have played a part too.

 

[checkraiseulite]

I'm assuming you believe noone has ever been raped because how can you prove it without something like video evidence.

as i said earlier in this thread i know people who have told me, and i believe, have been raped. both of them never made a complaint to police.

even SHY states there is no prospect of a criminal prosecution given the death of the alleged victim in this case.

 

[checkraiseulite]

Pretty sure the rape and murder of the girl in princess park had a conviction with a dead victim

also be a bit of a worry to have a murder conviction without a dead victim.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

so you're saying that there is literally no reason why she (or other victims) wouldn't go to the police, and the fact that she didn't (as a child) go to the police is proof she fabricated the whole thing (before killing herself) purely to try and take down porter for some reason. a compelling argument, let me consider it for a minute....

So she didn't go as a child to report another child?

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

He still gets that under the law. We know he did it though.

Yep like Lindy did it, they even had forensics for that one.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Over on another forum, someone made a very important point/claim I had not considered.

That in the 1980s, heterosexual anal sex was not as common as it is now.
That consent by a female, to sex, back in 1988, would not normally include anal sex.
That homophobia in the 1980's would have made it unlikely any male would want it known they'd have asked for anal sex.
That the rape allegation is not just that he did more than he was given permission for, but that he did something that no-one would normally expect to receive permission to do.

No, not as common in participation but still talked about and asked for.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

From a legal perspective but that does not stop a non legal inquiry from proceeding in fairness.
Unless he has something to hide. Thing is he can clear his name without the risk of going to jail.

Clear his name to what end? Would you believe and accept it if it cleared his name when you've already made up your mind that he's done it?