Hit Outs

[Brumbies]

I was reading the west today, the article comparing Cox and Sandi and now realise that people going on about other teams hsarking our hit outs are in a way full of crap.
I cant remember all the numbers but it goes abit like this.
Sandi ave 35 HO Cox 29 but Cox ave 21% to adv or i think it was 6.1 per game. Sandi ave 30% to adv about 9.8 per game.
Cox gives 23% or 6.7/game to the opposition where Sandi gives 32% or 10.3 to the opposition.
We are getting 9% more to us than the eagles do but give up 9% more aswell. To me this is quite simple because Sandi gets more hit outs Ill take 30% to us than less hit outs and only 23% to us.
I know he gives more up but that is mainly due to the amount of hit outs he gets. It would be good to see the stats for ruckman against Sandi and Cox and what there numbers and % are.

Im just sick of people carrying on about how he doesnt give us an advantage but the stats they have put up show he does.
Cox gives 2% more to the opposition just like Sandi does but you never hear that only that he gives them 1st use of it.

Anyway it was easier discussing at work today than trying to write my points up.

 

[Rubber Pants]

Yeah it was an interesting article.

According to the report the only ones who cough it up to the opposition more than Sandi are Jeff White and Jamie Charman.

Saying that though Sandi probably has one of the best hit out to advantage as well.

A lot of others ruckmens taps don't go to either teams advantage but at least Sandi gives us a lot of first possesion. It's just disappointing we don't have the cattle in the middle to take advantage of it.

 

[chook2734]

You're spot on Brumbies. The people that blame Sandilands for our dismal clearances don't watch where the ball goes after he taps it, or what the midfield do with it, they watch what happens with the second or third possession.

He can knock it down to them all day, but until we get players who have the skills and strength to actually use the ball to our advantage, we are going to lose out in the middle. If we improve the players at Sandi's feet, the clearance problem will be solved.

 

[bigkev bleeds purple]

Nice work Brumbies.

I reckon 211 taps to advantage more than people around here give him credit for, but it doesn't look that way when you're watching the game because our rovers don't grab it cleanly. If we had 3 players with hands like Hase at the big fella's feet, we'd dominate the clearances week in, week out.

 

[Sman-21]

Hmm some were pretty bad last week going straight to 2 hawks players with no docker very close.
But then when he finally does get 1 to a teammate an they mess it up it makes it look worse an that his taps are never any good.

Im not a sandi knocker i think hes given a hard time by the fans an he does enough to play every week.

So far both coaches from the teams weve played has mentioned Sandilands in our best players so they recognise how valuable all his hitouts are.

Since he seems to have abit of trouble getting it to our mids or they stuff up.
What he needs to be doing is just hitting/tapping it forwards most the time, couple of players head to that direction 1 or 2 others sit off ready to defend.
If he gets the chance hit it as far forward as possible if not just keep tapping forwards give up trying to tap it into there laps right underneath his feet.

 

[estibador]

Here's the article:

http://www.thewest.com.au/default.aspx?MenuID=12&ContentID=65661

The Dockers have been criticised for not taking advantage of Sandilands’ dominance this season. Only Brisbane’s Jamie Charman and Melbourne’s Jeff White have had more hit-outs intercepted this year.

But statistics show that Cox also hits more balls to the opposition than to his teammates.

Fremantle get clean possession from Sandilands’ taps 28 per cent of the time, but the opposition have won the ball from 30 per cent of his knocks. West Coast’s midfield have got their hands on 21 per cent of Cox’s taps, but the opposition has intercepted 23 per cent of his knocks.

 

[doggiesin08]

Cox ave 21% to adv or i think it was 6.1 per game. Sandi ave 30% to adv about 9.8 per game.
Cox gives 23% or 6.7/game to the opposition where Sandi gives 32% or 10.3 to the opposition.
We are getting 9% more to us than the eagles do but give up 9% more aswell. To me this is quite simple because Sandi gets more hit outs Ill take 30% to us than less hit outs and only 23% to us.
I know he gives more up but that is mainly due to the amount of hit outs he gets. It would be good to see the stats for ruckman against Sandi and Cox and what there numbers and % are.

Sorry Freo fans to crash your board but seriously you (OP) need to learn what percentages are and what they represent before making arguments based on them. The % of hit outs to advantage and to the opposition and not going to be affected by the number of hit-outs. The second highlighted section is a far greater expression (provided you weren't referring to percentages). If anything a greater number of hit-outs will show a more accurate account of the ruckmans true form (hit-out wise) as there is a greater number of outcomes (just like flipping a coin 1000 times gives a more accurate % result than flipping it 10 times). Pity I can't load the article up, it gets blocked by the Sex Acts Filter?

 

[ting tong]

Sorry Freo fans to crash your board but seriously you (OP) need to learn what percentages are and what they represent before making arguments based on them. The % of hit outs to advantage and to the opposition and not going to be affected by the number of hit-outs. The second highlighted section is a far greater expression (provided you weren't referring to percentages). If anything a greater number of hit-outs will show a more accurate account of the ruckmans true form (hit-out wise) as there is a greater number of outcomes (just like flipping a coin 1000 times gives a more accurate % result than flipping it 10 times). Pity I can't load the article up, it gets blocked by the Sex Acts Filter?

what you say about %'s is true.. but the point made is still the same, that he gets more taps to our players than Cox, admittingly while also coughing it up more.

you can live with the taps to oppstn if he also gets a greater proportion in our hands right? its not portrayed like that in the press though.. they miss out on the first part and bang on about the ruck turnovers.

its the old addage.. you can make any conclusion using statistics depending on what you choose to ignore

 

[doggiesin08]

what you say about %'s is true.. but the point made is still the same, that he gets more taps to our players than Cox, admittingly while also coughing it up more.

you can live with the taps to oppstn if he also gets a greater proportion in our hands right? its not portrayed like that in the press though.. they miss out on the first part and bang on about the ruck turnovers.

its the old addage.. you can make any conclusion using statistics depending on what you choose to ignore

oh yeah, certainly i'm not saying Sandilands is ****, Cox is a gun through my comment. The point I was trying to make was just that the number of hit outs will not affect the percentages to advantage or to opposition even if it does affect the overall number of hitouts to each category.

 

[Belnakor]

McDonald and Clark Keating formed a dominant ruck combination at Brisbane during the club’s premiership era and often chose to thump the ball forward instead of trying to direct it to a teammate.

McDonald said that tactic made it harder for the opposition to intercept the hit-out or stop a hard-running midfielder.

He said Sandilands would be unstoppable if he regularly used this tactic.

This quote reminds me of when Sandilands first became a force - we were getting swamped around the ball, and Sandilands was using his huge advantage to smash the ball over the pack - predictable tactic but much harder to stop.

 

[wce4premiership]

This quote reminds me of when Sandilands first became a force - we were getting swamped around the ball, and Sandilands was using his huge advantage to smash the ball over the pack - predictable tactic but much harder to stop.

Also give a slow midfield more time. Can;t do any harm from what i can tell.

 

[dont bowl there]

This quote reminds me of when Sandilands first became a force - we were getting swamped around the ball, and Sandilands was using his huge advantage to smash the ball over the pack - predictable tactic but much harder to stop.

He really should be doing this 1-2 times a quarter just to mix things up a bit, havent seen him do it once this year.

 

[masai]

Our midfield = fumblers.

One grab and we are off for heading for the goals, two grabs and we cough it up.

 

[Frigate]

Our midfield = fumblers.

One grab and we are off for heading for the goals, two grabs and we cough it up.

That is not exactly true IMO. Fumbles stick out, (and get remembered) I remember the passage of Headland to M Carr and he fumbled. That was a clear fumble.

The majority of errors comes from poor decision making, which puts team mates under unecessary pressure.

Poor kicking - floaters, kicks to a contest (from possesion to a 50%'a), (any high kick is a poor decision in execution IMO, they are better off low and flat than playing safety first).
Handballs, not hitting a target (inexcuseable), hitting a target who is under more pressure than themselves.
And not taking the ownership of the play to have the guts to kick it - if they do (good on them, but hopefully don't go back to "Poor Kicking").

 

[dont bowl there]

We very rarely have one touch clearances which means in turn that they are rushed and either do shit kicks or turn it over. Watch a team like Geelong and their hands are so much better. I just find it amazing that our boys cant grab a footy in one touch.

 

[Brumbies]

Sorry Freo fans to crash your board but seriously you (OP) need to learn what percentages are and what they represent before making arguments based on them. The % of hit outs to advantage and to the opposition and not going to be affected by the number of hit-outs. The second highlighted section is a far greater expression (provided you weren't referring to percentages). If anything a greater number of hit-outs will show a more accurate account of the ruckmans true form (hit-out wise) as there is a greater number of outcomes (just like flipping a coin 1000 times gives a more accurate % result than flipping it 10 times). Pity I can't load the article up, it gets blocked by the Sex Acts Filter?

I know what %s are, I was merly trying to point out that everyone has a go at his taps to opposition and that its too high but they never mention its nearly the same as taps to his team.
Obviously %s dont change for more hit outs, I mean most of us have had an education over hear in the west
No point trying to explain to someone that...............................................................................................................

 

[Belnakor]

We very rarely have one touch clearances which means in turn that they are rushed and either do shit kicks or turn it over. Watch a team like Geelong and their hands are so much better. I just find it amazing that our boys cant grab a footy in one touch.

J.Carr is OK with it, its guys like his brother, schammer who are fumblers. We also look like fumblers because the guy with the cleanest hands (hase is out injured). I wonder what our 1st Possession stats vs clearances looked like last year when hase played.

 

[doggiesin08]

I know what %s are, I was merly trying to point out that everyone has a go at his taps to opposition and that its too high but they never mention its nearly the same as taps to his team.
Obviously %s dont change for more hit outs, I mean most of us have had an education over hear in the west
No point trying to explain to someone that...............................................................................................................

Umm maybe you shouldn't have implied the Sandilands' percentages were higher because he got more hit outs then.