Hodge debate put to rest

tige19

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#26
Originally posted by My Man Croad
I can tell u now that Hodge will never ever over take Judd. He doesn't have it in him, stamina or heart.

I happen to be a appaulled Hawthorn supporter Hawka Deano and would never resort to spitting on the coach or the players. I also agree with Andrew and Tige19 we are a mediocre side and as long as we continue with this list and with the current coach we will stay rock bottom.

We are well over due for changes and if my negativity is a insult to so called supporters like you well STIFF. I am a Hawthorn member and will continue to be doesn't mean i have to put up with the crap we have been dealt.

One more thing and I have posted this on numerous occasions "This is my OPINION" and i am entitled to vent, disagree and respond to anything I like as this is a open forum.
Well said mate, maybe you need to have a chat to the large majority of the supporters on this board, at these times when we are getting flogged week after week they still are coming out with the same sort of comments, 'Look on the bright side' 'At least we had a crack' etc etc its so pathetic.
The only bright side is that we will get the first 2 priority picks in the draft but how important would they be if we have Schwab and co still charge?? we are bound to make stuff ups.
The joint needs to be cleared out, we need some descent midfielders who have a proven track record and a couple of very good KPP from the under 18s.
If we get the new coach and some descent recruits as well as draft some good younf KPP players as well as who ever the best kid in the land will be watch the membership soar.
How hard is it ?? honestly blind freddy could do what im asking.

cheers
 

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Yardie

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#27
Originally posted by tige19
Well said mate, maybe you need to have a chat to the large majority of the supporters on this board, at these times when we are getting flogged week after week they still are coming out with the same sort of comments, 'Look on the bright side' 'At least we had a crack' etc etc its so pathetic.
Firstly there is nothing that can be done about the list in the middle of the season. So I'd rather see my team go out and have a "crack" and be proud of them then see them fold up like a pack of cards (that is what makes us look like a laughing stock). On the other hand something can be done about the football department right now. But the powers that be won't see reason.

Originally posted by tige19
The only bright side is that we will get the first 2 priority picks in the draft but how important would they be if we have Schwab and co still charge?? we are bound to make stuff ups.
The joint needs to be cleared out, we need some descent midfielders who have a proven track record and a couple of very good KPP from the under 18s.
If we get the new coach and some descent recruits as well as draft some good younf KPP players as well as who ever the best kid in the land will be watch the membership soar.
How hard is it ?? honestly blind freddy could do what im asking.
Sheedy put forward a good argument on Talking Footy the other night where he said it was much better for a club to always be in the finals than wallow on the bottom of the ladder. He basically said that if you are in the finals then the members will continually sign up and that adds financial strength to the club. That financial strength can be turned into a good crack at a premiership.

Just because we have a gun youngster doesn't mean people are going to sign up for membership. I'll always be a member but there are people who sign up only when the club is doing well and they only sign up when you are winning and going to make the finals not because you have a gun team. Look at St Kilda they've had all the guns for the past few years but have only had a big increase in membership this year.

How hard is it tige19. Very hard if you wan't long term maintained success. Very easy if you want short term success. I wan't the club to build for the long term future (15-20 years and beyond) not for a short term premiership and then find ourselves back where we started.
 

stick

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#28
I've heard alot of crap before but this takes the cake.


tige19 quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

These days recruiting staff are making this whole process of drafting players alot more complictaed than it should be. You dont select a player because you can see some undeveloped raw talent and in future year it MIGHT just pay off, thats the worst thing any recruiter could do.
Its sooooo simple the best footballer is the player you should take and Chriss Judd was by far and away the best under 18 player in the land.


tige19 you would have been the first person to criticise the footy club if Judd had of come out in his first or second year and injured one (or both) of his shoulders. you would have been crapping on about how everybody knew that Judd has dodgy shoulders and why the hell would HFC use their no.1 draft pick on a bloke with dodgy shoulders. blah blah blah. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Be happy that we've picked up a tough hard leader of men in Luke Hodge (not too mention a superbly skilled footballer). He has only just turned twenty, and is yet to have a full season without injury concerns. When he is able to string together a full pre-season and a dozen games on end he will have the match-fitness to spend more time in the middle. This is when we will see the best of him.
 
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#29
Originally posted by Ramma
Chicken and the egg argument Andrew - if Hodge was allowed to play in the midfield more often (ie. the Carlton game), he would probably build the motor up to sustain playing there.
Hodgey has broken down with stress related injuries in two of three pre seasons. You do not build stamina during a season if you dont have it. His past history does not bode well for he being a long term midfielder. He may be an impact player and that is what I am hoping for.
 
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#30
Originally posted by Yardie
Firstly there is nothing that can be done about the list in the middle of the season. So I'd rather see my team go out and have a "crack" and be proud of them then see them fold up like a pack of cards (that is what makes us look like a laughing stock). On the other hand something can be done about the football department right now. But the powers that be won't see reason.



Sheedy put forward a good argument on Talking Footy the other night where he said it was much better for a club to always be in the finals than wallow on the bottom of the ladder. He basically said that if you are in the finals then the members will continually sign up and that adds financial strength to the club. That financial strength can be turned into a good crack at a premiership.

Just because we have a gun youngster doesn't mean people are going to sign up for membership. I'll always be a member but there are people who sign up only when the club is doing well and they only sign up when you are winning and going to make the finals not because you have a gun team. Look at St Kilda they've had all the guns for the past few years but have only had a big increase in membership this year.

How hard is it tige19. Very hard if you wan't long term maintained success. Very easy if you want short term success. I wan't the club to build for the long term future (15-20 years and beyond) not for a short term premiership and then find ourselves back where we started.
Reckon Sheedy would have gotten his new three year contract if his teams have just made the finals every year without winning a flag? Personally the idea of finishing 7-8 every year wouldnt fill me with joy. Half the sides in the competition make the finals for Christs sake. His statement here, like many others is poppycock.
 
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#31
Originally posted by Hawka Deano
Andrew and Tige19,

Instead of being negative all of the time why don't you two get behind the Hawks when they are down. It's not Hodge's fault he was drafted ahead of Judd (I still think he has done just as much as Ball), but he was and he WILL be a very good footballer for us and probably a future captain.

Other than Riewoldt can you name any other number one's in the past 5-6 years that have done more than Hodge:

Johnstone - No
Headland - For 1 year
Fraser - No
Goddard - No
Cooney - Too early but doesn't look like it

It's supporters like you two that give the hawks supporters a bad name. If you want to be like this go and support Richmoind!
What a pitiful load of drivel this hen pecked post is. Attempting to point out that Hodge is unlikely to ever be an elite midfielder is hardly bagging him and I can tell you straight out, all evidence thusfar is in my corner. I think he has terrific courage, foot skills and footy smarts but dont expect him to be another Jarman. As for his leadership qualities, for all but the blokes inside the club they remain as questionable as the next player. Not his fault and he may turn out a leader but at this stage posters raving about his imminent captaincy are living in hope.

Sorry that my less fanatical observations of the state of our Club are painful to your tender sensibilities. Perhaps we could have the board name changed to something like HAWTHORN BOARD ( restricted to people with only nice things to say about us )
 

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I said Hawthorn.....
#32
Originally posted by andrew coombs
Hodgey has broken down with stress related injuries in two of three pre seasons. You do not build stamina during a season if you dont have it. His past history does not bode well for he being a long term midfielder. He may be an impact player and that is what I am hoping for.
OK - so he spends a majority of the game against Carlton on the ball, but spends as much as 3 quarters the following week against StKilda away from the centre. Did he lose stamina in 7 days?? He is not utilised properly at all.

(Also - Paul Connors was on the radio (3AW) last weekend (he is a player manager including Luke Hodge) - he commented that at least 10 of the clubs indicated to him that they would have chosen Hodge ahead of Judd and Ball in the 2001 draft).
 

HIG

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#33
Originally posted by Ramma
OK - so he spends a majority of the game against Carlton on the ball, but spends as much as 3 quarters the following week against StKilda away from the centre. Did he lose stamina in 7 days?? He is not utilised properly at all.
Bingo. Last year against Fremantle Hodge played exlusively on the wing and dominated. 21 touches and 2 Brownlow votes. Where was he the next week? Back pocket.

Hodge is not the problem, Schwab is.
 

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#34
Originally posted by Hodge_is_God
Bingo. Last year against Fremantle Hodge played exlusively on the wing and dominated. 21 touches and 2 Brownlow votes. Where was he the next week? Back pocket.

Hodge is not the problem, Schwab is.
Perhaps there were other factors involved including:

1. who else was available;

2. whether he pulled up sore from the previous game and was OK to play, but not in the midlfield;

3. what match-ups there were;

Ever thought about that?

You can have very talented players who are slightly brittle, just as easily as serviceable players who can run through brick walls every week without getting hurt.
 

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#35
Originally posted by andrew coombs
Reckon Sheedy would have gotten his new three year contract if his teams have just made the finals every year without winning a flag? Personally the idea of finishing 7-8 every year wouldnt fill me with joy. Half the sides in the competition make the finals for Christs sake. His statement here, like many others is poppycock.
Andrew, maybe I haven't conveyed what Sheedy said very well. He was saying that by staying in finals contention every year you maintain a large supporter base and therefore have financial stability. This in turn allows you to make serious challenges for the flag every 4-5 years. And Sheedy has won four flags in his time. This is better than wallowing at the bottom of the table and making a run at a flag every ten years or so.

If Hawthorn had stayed in the finals for the last two years there wouldn't be as much as a backlash as there is now. We could accept that there are injuries, etc. Lets look back at the past ten years. Hawthorn have averaged a ladder position of 9.8 (4 finals appearances) while Essendon have managed a position of 6.4 (8 finals appearances and 1 flag). It's easier to win a flag when you're making the finals then it is when you don't.
 

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#36
Originally posted by My Man Croad
I can tell u now that Hodge will never ever over take Judd. He doesn't have it in him, stamina or heart.

what a thing to say you grade A tool. I have read, some stupid, garbage, but this takes the cake.

Hodge has twice the heart and leadership of Judd. I neer see Judd out his body on the line. I see Hodge going into packs, getting the hard ball etc...he is a natural leader is already touted as our next captain.

That is why Hodge will be better than Judd

You sir are a moron.
 

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HIG

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#37
Originally posted by Funky Colin
Perhaps there were other factors involved including:

1. who else was available;

2. whether he pulled up sore from the previous game and was OK to play, but not in the midlfield;

3. what match-ups there were;

Ever thought about that?

You can have very talented players who are slightly brittle, just as easily as serviceable players who can run through brick walls every week without getting hurt.
Good points all, but:
Hodge was amongst our best for the second half of last year and played near on every minute of every game - all along the back/forward lines.

Surely playing 30-40 minutes midfield and the rest across half back isn't too much of a stretch from 100 minutes a game exclusively across half back.

My opinion remains that he is still being utilised incorrectly given his ability:

Drawing an example out of thin air - the massacre against Port in Adelaide earlier this year. Hodge was thoroughly wasted in the forward line until the last quarter when he was the only one to show any resistance (8-9 touches from memory) when finally placed in the midfield. Of course, the game was gone from there.

I mean, it's not as though Hodge CAN'T play a quarter or two a game in the midfield, he has all through the year. My issue is more WHEN Schwab chooses to put Hodgey in the guts.

-In nearly three quarters in the midfield against Carlton this year Hodge had 18 of his 20 possessions. (18 in 70 minutes)

-Against the Bombers, spent 70 minutes on the field, 20 minutes in the forward line and had 13 of his 14 possessions in the midfield (13 in 50 minutes)

-Against the Bulldogs played about a half in the midfield, shook off a Murphy tag. Reached double figures in possessions about half way through the second quarter when he was promptly removed from the midfield.

In all sincerity, if you look at the bare statistics of time spent in the middle, you'll see that Hodge's stats measure favourably against any midfielder in the comp.

But then you get games like the Port game and most obviously the Saints game. The question i would like to ask is this in regard to the Saints match: If Hodge was carrying a knock and couldn't run out the game, or even a half in the midfield, then why did Schwab give him the last 15 minutes of the game on the ball rather than the first 15 minutes of the 3rd quarter when it could have actually mattered?

Of course, that's when Hodge isn't being asked to play fullback on Lade and Barnard, or hold down chf to compensate for the pathetic state of our chf stocks.

Nope, sorry mate, we'll have to disagree. Hodgey has his flaws, anyone who can't see that is blind, but the fact remains - whatever his flaws, Schwab is the biggest hindrance in his progression when he gets on the park.
 
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#38
Judd v Hodge

The fact that this topic was even brought up shows how hurt Hawthorn people are over their selection.
Stop trying to justify it and move on.
Hodge is a good player and may one day be a great player, fact is however Judd is a great player now.
Draw a line in the sand and get over it Hawthorn.
Judd is the word.
 

HIG

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#39
Re: Judd v Hodge

Originally posted by don john
The fact that this topic was even brought up shows how hurt Hawthorn people are over their selection.
Stop trying to justify it and move on.
Hodge is a good player and may one day be a great player, fact is however Judd is a great player now.
Draw a line in the sand and get over it Hawthorn.
Judd is the word.
A bummer's fan telling Hawthorn supporters to get over something...how ironic...

Hodge is that much better than any young player at your whinging, scum-ridden club it's not funny...now p*ss off loser. :rolleyes:
 

coasting

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#40
Originally posted by jacqui9
Hodge has twice the heart and leadership of Judd. I neer see Judd out his body on the line. I see Hodge going into packs, getting the hard ball etc...he is a natural leader is already touted as our next captain.
TWICE the heart and leadership of Judd? ROFLMAO!!!!!

Stop embarassing yourselves hawk fans. Build yourselves a bridge and walk over it.
 

tige19

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#41
Originally posted by Ramma

(Also - Paul Connors was on the radio (3AW) last weekend (he is a player manager including Luke Hodge) - he commented that at least 10 of the clubs indicated to him that they would have chosen Hodge ahead of Judd and Ball in the 2001 draft).
Of course he is gonna say that it is manager for gods sake :eek: , think outside the square mate do you honestly think player managers speak half the truth???.
 

tige19

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#42
Originally posted by jacqui9
what a f**kwit thing to say you grade A tool. I have read, some stupid, garbage, but this takes the cake.

Hodge has twice the heart and leadership of Judd. I neer see Judd out his body on the line. I see Hodge going into packs, getting the hard ball etc...he is a natural leader is already touted as our next captain.

That is why Hodge will be better than Judd

You sir are a moron.
All i can say Jacqui is that you are a complete twit and you cant go past that second last comment that Hodge will be better than Judd hahahaha:rolleyes: .
Theres more chance of Tahiti qualifying for the world cup than Hodge being better than Judd.
Jacquie your best to keep your trap shut babe :D :D you are bt far more attractive when you arent noticed.

cheers
 

Ramma

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I said Hawthorn.....
#43
Originally posted by tige19
Of course he is gonna say that it is manager for gods sake :eek: , think outside the square mate do you honestly think player managers speak half the truth???.
What difference does it make now? Obviously most people think Judd is a better player, and performances to date support that - can't argue it. But some of us recognise something a little more intangible with Hodge that neither Judd or Ball have shown. Perhaps you should look a little outside the square sometimes yourself - because some don't agree with you doesn't necessarily make them wrong.
:eek:
 

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#44
Why is it people can't make an assessment of Luke Hodge without having the irresistible urge to compare him with Chris Judd?

Who gives a toss about Chris Judd? He doesn't play for Hawthorn. All I'm interested in is how Hodge is going. Hodge is a terrific player and will play 200-300 games of AFL. If kept at the club and allowed to settle into a consistent role he will not only lead the club but will win a couple of club champion awards.

When his careeer is over, history will recall him as one of the great Hawthorn players. When assessing Hodge, forget Judd. He plays for West Coast and has nothing to do with anything that's going on at Hawthorn.
 

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#45
Originally posted by tige19
Judd is super quick gets possesions at will and kicks goals
Kicks goals? Since that bag of 5 he booted against Brisbane he hasn't put too many through. I'm sick of hearing about Judd. How about we wait for him to actually achieve something in footy before hanging the superstar tag on him huh?

Games: around 50
Best & Fairests: Nil.
Brownlows: Nil
Premierships: Nil
Norm Smith Medals: Nil
Any other awards of relevence: None that I can recall.

If his career ended tomorrow due to a debilitating injury, history would forget him.

He may become a superstar but he's not one yet. Don't get too carried away people. He has a long way to go.
 

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#46
Originally posted by tige19
All i can say Jacqui is that you are a complete twit and you cant go past that second last comment that Hodge will be better than Judd hahahaha:rolleyes: .
Theres more chance of Tahiti qualifying for the world cup than Hodge being better than Judd.
Jacquie your best to keep your trap shut babe :D :D you are bt far more attractive when you arent noticed.

cheers
Bugger off to another team then.

Oh and men tend to find me more attractive with my mouth open.......

But hey, you will never get to find out. Hey babe?
 

tige19

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#47
Originally posted by jacqui9
Bugger off to another team then.

Oh and men tend to find me more attractive with my mouth open.......

But hey, you will never get to find out. Hey babe?
Jacqui i know you have this ever growing love for me its been raging for almost 2 years now but you have got to give up.
The only way id ever let you open your mouth up for me is in front of the TV with the Paris Hilton dvd on and a balaklava covering everything but your lips.
Other than that the men who find you more attractive you must have got from Port Phillip Bay prison and even then im sure they would prefer a 50 yr old male rear.

cheers jacqui luv ya :eek:
 

jacqui9

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#48
Originally posted by tige19
Jacqui i know you have this ever growing love for me its been raging for almost 2 years now but you have got to give up.
The only way id ever let you open your mouth up for me is in front of the TV with the Paris Hilton dvd on and a balaklava covering everything but your lips.
Other than that the men who find you more attractive you must have got from Port Phillip Bay prison and even then im sure they would prefer a 50 yr old male rear.

cheers jacqui luv ya :eek:
All you need to do is ask nicely tige and I might think about it. Whatever turns you on. Let us not beat around the bush. There has always been something there.

Those Port Phillip Prisoners were very generous.
 

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#50
Originally posted by The Candy Man
One of the more interesting comments made on Big Footy :D
It was meant in that context as well Candy Man. I was having a dig at my lover tige because I want him sooooo much

:D :rolleyes:
 
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