Hogan worth

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Depending on who's report you read and how you interpret it, it sounds like Melbourne gave us the ultimatum on Friday of two firsts after we offered 10 & future 2nd. ie they are not willing to budge which is why we walked away. So our offer would technically be our last because the Dees wouldn't negotiate.

If that is the case I say f*** em. Leave it at 10 & future 2nd. Also not surprised the Vic media are reporting it like we are being troublesome when it could well be them.

Stay the course Rosich and Belly.
 
I wonder what the AFL’s view willl be when Rosich and Belly tell them the real reasons they backed out and if they really want to make those reasons public, they would be more than happy to to clear up the air. I don’t think that’s something the AFL or Melbourne would want.
 
Joao said:
Depending on who's report you read and how you interpret it, it sounds like Melbourne gave us the ultimatum on Friday of two firsts after we offered 10 & future 2nd. ie they are not willing to budge which is why we walked away. So our offer would technically be our last because the Dees wouldn't negotiate.

If that is the case I say f*** em. Leave it at 10 & future 2nd. Also not surprised the Vic media are reporting it like we are being troublesome when it could well be them.

Stay the course Rosich and Belly.
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Agree, this is the only interpretation of the saga. Melbourne can go piss up a rope.
 

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Wally Walpamur said:
I wonder what the AFL’s view willl be when Rosich and Belly tell them the real reasons they backed out and if they really want to make those reasons public, they would be more than happy to to clear up the air. I don’t think that’s something the AFL or Melbourne would want.
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But that’s not fair to Hogan if these accusations aren’t true
 
Wally Walpamur said:
I wonder what the AFL’s view willl be when Rosich and Belly tell them the real reasons they backed out and if they really want to make those reasons public, they would be more than happy to to clear up the air. I don’t think that’s something the AFL or Melbourne would want.
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That would be against the rules.

That is why Damien Barrett was so adamant that Freo should come out and say it because then he won't lose his accreditation over reporting it first.
 
So the AFL is going to say to us just get the deal done and give them what they want, even though it’s not in our club’s best interest? I don’t remember this when Gibbs requested Adelaide or Cam requested Freo or any other deal. What a crock of s**t.
 
Wally Walpamur said:
So the AFL is going to say to us just get the deal done and give them what they want, even though it’s not in our club’s best interest? I don’t remember this when Gibbs requested Adelaide or Cam requested Freo or any other deal. What a crock of s**t.
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What usually happens is the player says something about family/mental health so the trading team can look like good blokes for letting him go for unders.
 
Interested to hear an unbiased opinion on why you all think Neale is worth more than Hogan. Unfounded rumours and innuendo on Bigfooty don't drop a player's value
 
numbat06 said:
Interested to hear an unbiased opinion on why you all think Neale is worth more than Hogan. Unfounded rumours and innuendo on Bigfooty don't drop a player's value
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If our list management see it that way then I believe them. They have more rumourless information than anyone as well the best intentions of the club. If they were not looking to the long term performance of the club and just wanted to get bums on seats to make money which which is their conflicting interests with regards to Fremantle then they would have got Hogan but they haven't. I don't know what rumours are true but it's clear that there is information that in our eyes drastically reduce the value of hogan.
 
numbat06 said:
Interested to hear an unbiased opinion on why you all think Neale is worth more than Hogan. Unfounded rumours and innuendo on Bigfooty don't drop a player's value
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Neale consistently racks up 30 + mostly contested, is a goal kicker, not injury prone and is debatablely our best player, Hogan is apparently surplus to requirements and long term injury list. Bennell has similar talent (top ten in league potential ) but look how that’s turning out for us...
 

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Joao said:
Depending on who's report you read and how you interpret it, it sounds like Melbourne gave us the ultimatum on Friday of two firsts after we offered 10 & future 2nd. ie they are not willing to budge which is why we walked away. So our offer would technically be our last because the Dees wouldn't negotiate.

If that is the case I say f*** em. Leave it at 10 & future 2nd. Also not surprised the Vic media are reporting it like we are being troublesome when it could well be them.

Stay the course Rosich and Belly.
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I suspect you're about right, but it takes two to tango. Freo didn't have to publicly say they're pulling out of the whole process. They could have just let Melbourne stew on the down low. Perhaps it was a bit of a control the narrative move, but it's not going to work so why bother. No probs with Belly telling Mel to piss off and come back when they're serious, just seemed strange to make the call they did intentionally public (so it seemed).

On the other hand, perhaps Freo have come across issues so problematic, or potentially so, that even the 10 + 2nd round pick is considered overs, I find that hard to believe though.

As for AFL wanting to get involved with arbitration... I call BS. They might yet, but it comes at the request of the clubs and maybe player managers, the AFL don't jump in without invitation, at least that is how it's worked in the past.
 
What's to mediate? They didn't like our offer, we didn't like their offer, Jesse Hogan remains a Dee.

If they seek mediation, they're absolutely desperate to get him off their list.
 
numbat06 said:
Interested to hear an unbiased opinion on why you all think Neale is worth more than Hogan. Unfounded rumours and innuendo on Bigfooty don't drop a player's value
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First off, Neale is a better footballer than Hogan however Hogan is a rarer commodity.

Secondly, what a player is traded for does not necessarily indicate his worth. For example Gold Coast gave pick 2 to Fremantle for Weller. All things being equal Weller isn't worth pick 2 but GC needs players who want to be there.

You might say Freo are in the same position in needing a key forward but we have a couple of options we can persue should Hogan prove overly expensive. We can go for Lobb or draft a King if Neale leaves. Without these options we would be in a weaker position when negotiating for Hogan.

Melbourne need to fill 8 positions on the list, with only Preuss being traded in. Their first pick is at 36. They also need currency to trade for May. If they believe getting May can get them one step further and into a gf then they really need the currency and cap space from Hogan leaving. There is an urgency for Melbourne to improve their list in the immediate term. Fremantle arent challenging for the flag in the next 2 years so can afford to be patient.



There is also the issue of the navicular injury. Will Neale play more games over the rest of his career than Hogan? A players worth could be estimated by their performance multiplied by games played. Fyfe was leading the Brownlow at halfway but missed the rest through injury.

There are also mental health risks. As improper as it seems to talk about at first glance I think it is fine because we should treat it like any other health issue such as a broken leg. We have seen players miss games, retire early or underperform due to mental health problems.

There is also the effect a player has on the rest of the list. There is a thought that players such as McCarthy and Bennell have a negative impact on the rest of the group. In todays age where players are pulled up for having a can of coke Hogan has been known to smoke. The individual act is not terrible but the indication it gives to the level of professionalism and dedication is useful.
 
Tony_Clifton said:
First off, Neale is a better footballer than Hogan however Hogan is a rarer commodity.

Secondly, what a player is traded for does not necessarily indicate his worth. For example Gold Coast gave pick 2 to Fremantle for Weller. All things being equal Weller isn't worth pick 2 but GC needs players who want to be there.

You might say Freo are in the same position in needing a key forward but we have a couple of options we can persue should Hogan prove overly expensive. We can go for Lobb or draft a King if Neale leaves. Without these options we would be in a weaker position when negotiating for Hogan.

Melbourne need to fill 8 positions on the list, with only Preuss being traded in. Their first pick is at 36. They also need currency to trade for May. If they believe getting May can get them one step further and into a gf then they really need the currency and cap space from Hogan leaving. There is an urgency for Melbourne to improve their list in the immediate term. Fremantle arent challenging for the flag in the next 2 years so can afford to be patient.



There is also the issue of the navicular injury. Will Neale play more games over the rest of his career than Hogan? A players worth could be estimated by their performance multiplied by games played. Fyfe was leading the Brownlow at halfway but missed the rest through injury.

There are also mental health risks. As improper as it seems to talk about at first glance I think it is fine because we should treat it like any other health issue such as a broken leg. We have seen players miss games, retire early or underperform due to mental health problems.

There is also the effect a player has on the rest of the list. There is a thought that players such as McCarthy and Bennell have a negative impact on the rest of the group. In todays age where players are pulled up for having a can of coke Hogan has been known to smoke. The individual act is not terrible but the indication it gives to the level of professionalism and dedication is useful.
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Excellent logical thoughts , and players worth very dependant on sellers / buyers needs .




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Anyone who has a brain can see the quality of our inside fifties are the problem. Our midfield get smashed.

That's why losing our most consistently elite midfielder while in contract is having such a high price put on the deal.

That's why we could put 3x Lance Franklins in the forward line and it wouldn't make a difference.
 
numbat06 said:
Interested to hear an unbiased opinion on why you all think Neale is worth more than Hogan. Unfounded rumours and innuendo on Bigfooty don't drop a player's value
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It's simple really. Aside from all the comparisons about output, age, injuries and potential etc., the fact is that Freo wants to retain Neale while Melbourne have been publicly offering Hogan to us as they want to bring in Steven May.

Brisbane will need to provide significant compensation if they want the club to release Neale a year early whilst he's still under contract. Melbourne are trying to push Hogan out whilst they believe he has more currency - the important thing to remember here is that they are the one's driving the trade, not us. Why should we pay overs for a player they want to get rid of, even though he hasn't even publicly come out and stated that he wants to come to us?

The media think we should pay through the nose simply because we've had significant interest in him over the last 4 or 5 years. I'd agree with them if Melbourne weren't willing to come to the party in the first place, which isn't the case now. We obviously need to pay a fair price which I understand (I think our initial offer was too low, but you have to start somewhere in negotiations). There's a lot of differing opinions on what that price should be, but if Melbourne want to let Hogan go, then they need to be reasonable with their expectations on what they're willing to accept.

I hope Bell and Rosich are dealing directly with GC to ensure that we're able to assist with facilitating May's move to Melbourne. If we can't sort this out first, well, then this has all been for nothing hasn't it?
 
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I reckon we must get Hogan no matter what.

Neale is easily replaced - we could get the wonderful Michael Barlow back for nothing. He'll pick up 35 + possies every week, prob more than Lachie, just as he did on last game of season against Geelong when he was best player for Suns.
 
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