General Giant
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WAN
0 v STM
0 PM
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13 v PHI
7 FT
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90 v NY
99 FT
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2 v NEW
2 FT
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110 v DET
106 FT
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100 v MIL
118 FT
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3 v BRI
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107 FT
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120 FT
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105 FT
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10 FT
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21 FT
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73 v CHN
106 FT
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21 FT
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31 v TB
38 FT
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33 v CAR
10 FT
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13 FT
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34 v MIN
26 FT
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72 FT
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105 v ORL
92 FT
MEM
128 v SAC
101 FT
TOR
97 v BOS
109 FT
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16 v CLE
10 FT
BRO
107 v PHX
113 FT
HOU
146 v CHA
143 FT
Holden has been put out of its misery
- Thread starter General Giant
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Black_White
Brownlow Medallist
Where does that leave Supercars?
juice t
#TheExers
The Australian Mustang Championship
General Giant
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General Giant
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NSWCROW
Make me an Admin!
Better yet , fork the cash and develop a Camaro/Mustang gt3
General Giant
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Can see WAU doing it, as they already sell the Camero(which has had a 3rd party GT3 ver before).
Plus they will be selling the new Corvette (which already has GTE spec) next year.
Could see ford putting in the effort if the regulations became the number 1 competition here with how well the regs are seen world wide as well.
Then add how easy that would make other makes to join the competition.
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Like last year
General Giant
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Lebbo73
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Future: Ford Mustang vs GM what?
General Giant
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Future? Supercars has none of it doesn’t find regulations that fit in the motor industry world wide.
Mustang is a yank vehicle just as a Camaro is.
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Lebbo73
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Just relax mate. It‘s obvious that what I posted was a lighthearted dig at Holden fans and it went swish straight over your head.
General Giant
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Eh? I’m Very relaxed. Don’t watch Supercars and haven’t for a while so am unconcerned.Just relax mate. It‘s obvious that what I posted was a lighthearted dig at Holden fans and it went swish straight over your head.
And Holden was dead in my eyes years ago.
On these boards if you want light hearted digs add a smiley. Especially considering some of the stupid garbage that gets believed and posted.
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Bomberboyokay
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Lebbo73
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If there wasn’t so much money wasted on inefficient renewables, unions didn’t demand $80k/annum for assembly line workers and we had built several of the energy efficient coal fired power station, GM would probably still be manufacturing cars in Oz.
Don’t forget the government sending bucket loads of cash overseas and not helping out our manufacturers.
Black_White
Brownlow Medallist
We, the taxpayer, were contributing $250 per vehicle produced in Australia. No matter the manufacturer.
Meanwhile, the German Government were contributing $400 per vehicle produced. Across manufacturers such as Mercedes, BMW and the biggest manufacturer in the world, VW.
And yet the Liberals were able to deceive us into thinking our contribution was unusual and excessive.
$250 per vehicle.... what was the GST return on those vehicles? What was the PAYG tax on the employees?
Now we have lost any chance of being manufacturers, we are now a nation of B&B’s and coffee shops.
How proud I am.
Klyntonius
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They euthanised a dying industry.
General Giant
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Umm no.
The government subsidies were less than other countries such as Europe who do the same thing.
Also less than the funds directed at the mining industry and other industries in the country.
The Government wanted to flex and it backfired.
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wizardwaffle
Club Legend
The final nail in the coffin of Holden was General Motors getting out of the business of making right hand drive cars. This was brought about by General Motors selling Opel and Vauxhaul to others. The Commodore was the Opel Insight and the Opel Astra was the Astra. Going forward Holden had to find new cars to import to sell. What General Motors sales in the States is like what we had here, a full sized family car the Impala that isn't selling, the Malibu which sold here for a short time, the Cruze which was made here, the Sonic, and the Spark which was the Barina here.
When the move was made to make all those General Motors companies have circle logos so importing would be easier as it would be just take one logo off and replace it with another logo the same size. The Cheve logo never came in a circle. It would have been better for General Motors to sell Holden off with Opel and Vauxhall. They kept them instead, even though they were selling Opel cars as their own. Now GM wants to get out of the right hand drive vehicles. We have a car company without cars.
Saying that Holden died because they kept selling the Commodore is wrong. They were making 150 000 a year in 2013. The habits of car buyers changed to vehicles like the Toyota HiLux and Ford Ranger. Holden did start making the Cruze here, but it never got a good enough hold of the market to be kept being made here.
Holden should be the importer of vehicles from Europe under Opel. They could have made a better go at selling Opels as Holdens in Australia than Opel did a few years back. General Motors doesn't want to make right hand drive cars then go on your merry way, just leave our car company here. A new rear drive version of the Commodore could have been the thing to start the ball rolling again for Holden. Now we will never know.
Holden was one of those icons of Australia. So said to see them go. Even if the company was selling overseas cars at least it was selling them to Australian market, with a design studio in Port Melbourne and proving ground at Lang Lang, it was still Australia's company which was closed by Americans.
When the move was made to make all those General Motors companies have circle logos so importing would be easier as it would be just take one logo off and replace it with another logo the same size. The Cheve logo never came in a circle. It would have been better for General Motors to sell Holden off with Opel and Vauxhall. They kept them instead, even though they were selling Opel cars as their own. Now GM wants to get out of the right hand drive vehicles. We have a car company without cars.
Saying that Holden died because they kept selling the Commodore is wrong. They were making 150 000 a year in 2013. The habits of car buyers changed to vehicles like the Toyota HiLux and Ford Ranger. Holden did start making the Cruze here, but it never got a good enough hold of the market to be kept being made here.
Holden should be the importer of vehicles from Europe under Opel. They could have made a better go at selling Opels as Holdens in Australia than Opel did a few years back. General Motors doesn't want to make right hand drive cars then go on your merry way, just leave our car company here. A new rear drive version of the Commodore could have been the thing to start the ball rolling again for Holden. Now we will never know.
Holden was one of those icons of Australia. So said to see them go. Even if the company was selling overseas cars at least it was selling them to Australian market, with a design studio in Port Melbourne and proving ground at Lang Lang, it was still Australia's company which was closed by Americans.
tandino
Brownlow Medallist
No real surprises.
Realistically the problem was that Governments were subsidising Holden to compete with Ford and Ford to compete with Holden in a narrower segment and to fight for customers that did not exist.
The wind up of Mitsubishi should have been the canary in the coal mine. What did Holden do in response to ever decreasing sales?
Realistically the problem was that Governments were subsidising Holden to compete with Ford and Ford to compete with Holden in a narrower segment and to fight for customers that did not exist.
The wind up of Mitsubishi should have been the canary in the coal mine. What did Holden do in response to ever decreasing sales?
Klyntonius
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I actually have no issue with the government divvying out subsidies but even they couldn't save the industry. Without the ability to export in any reasonable numbers, the death of Holden and Ford (and collaterally, Toyota) was inevitable.
Holden, sadly, was a lame duck. After the giddy heights of 2002-2005 where they sold 175,000+ cars per year, those sales had plummeted to less than 120,000 by 2009. Last year they sold just over 43,000 cars. They took a dump on their own loyal following by introducing a range of substandard Korean cars that torched their goodwill and the last car that had any attractiveness left to the public was the (real) Commodore. But even the Commodore's sales had haemorrhaged from 80,000+ a year during those years (and a high of nearly 95,000 in 1998) to 45,000 by 2009 and a meagre 28,000 when the end of subsidies was announced in 2013.
Had the subsidies remained, where was Holden's sustainable future going to come from? The Commodore would now be a 14 year old platform now and need of a new mode, which wouldn't happen for a dead market. Even if they built their three highest selling models in house, it would number in the 20,000s. That's not nearly enough volume for any sustainable manufacturing future and with their track record over the past 15 years it's folly to think they'd ever stumble upon a "saviour" model.
In terms of Ford, they were very much in the same boat as Holden. Falcon sales skidded to near a complete halt, from numbering 73,000 sales in 2003 to an unimaginable 14,000 by 2012. The market had moved on from large sedans. Even the much heralded Territory only sold roughly as many numbers as the Falcon. It would be out of production by now anyway as the build from which they were based is now over 20 years old and their replacement options have been sales duds. Unless they built Rangers over here and exported them - impossible when they can be made for a fraction of the price in neighbouring Thailand - just like Holden, there is nothing in Ford's range that could've been a potential manufacturing saviour. In fact, if you take out the figures of the Ranger and Colorado from last years sales figures, Holden actually outsold Ford. Diabolical.
The only sustainable manufacturer was Toyota who exported 70 percent of the Camrys and Corollas they manufactured - over 1,000,000 in total. Unfortunately they had no viable future with the untenable manufacturing of Holden and Ford.
