Holden has been put out of its misery

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Black_White

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Yes the numbers have been dropping correct, the question is why. My speculation is a fair one.

I seriously doubt the numbers on FTA or Fox will increase purely on the back of the layman spectator can't link to Holden v Falcon anymore. It's now Opel v Mustang, neither of which relate to the common fan - apart from the fact it's tin top v8. But it will never be the same as Holden v Falcon i:e aussie made cars.

Now that aussie made cars are gone there's nothing the family at no.10 Smith st. can relate to anymore.

This category will die as a result. Bookmark that.
I was having a conversation with a couple of people last week who were saying that they were going to warehouse a couple of Holdens in the expectation they would be worth squillions in a few decades.
I had to point out that their prospective buyers, those with a love affair with these cars, are now middle/late aged. They won’t be around to buy, and their offspring couldn’t give a sh*t about Holden/Ford V8’s. They want massive “trucks” that you can’t fit into a normal car parking space!
 

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Lebbo73

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I was having a conversation with a couple of people last week who were saying that they were going to warehouse a couple of Holdens in the expectation they would be worth squillions in a few decades.
I had to point out that their prospective buyers, those with a love affair with these cars, are now middle/late aged. They won’t be around to buy, and their offspring couldn’t give a sh*t about Holden/Ford V8’s. They want massive “trucks” that you can’t fit into a normal car parking space!
Do you call car parking spaces normal? Even when I had small cars I used to say that we should be able to sue shopping centres because the spaces are too small.
 

Carringbush2010

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They want massive “trucks” that you can’t fit into a normal car parking space!
Yeah that's a current 'fad'in the 'now'. So right now an A9X is worth somewhere in the minimum around 80 - 100k right, before the news last Monday.

Anyone who has any interest in cars will know what that car is and will view it as an investment. Just because v8 sedans aren't popular among the don't give a sh*t about cars public or that the majority of the now teens won't know what it is doesn't mean they won't increase in value.

I'll be calling Shannons in regards to my LJ and WM Statesman to negotiate the agreed value. They may not increase in value immediately but I'm willing to bet they will increase as a result of the brand closing down at some point. The LJ in particular.
 

Kwality

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Here is a ute worth keeping: Blackjack: the unlikely prototype survivor

corvette-c8-holden-ute-mule-revealed

The notion of a ute was chosen to try and mask the fact that the engine had moved to behind the driver’s cabin, but the Frankenstein proportions of the car – a VE front clip mated to a C7 Corvette cabin and a pick-up bed, topped with an inverted two-post wing and enormous wheel arches – led many (including Wheels) to speculate as to its true origins – Chevrolet’s first-ever mid-engined Corvette.

Underneath the glossy black paint, CNC-milled aluminium rails and mounts allowed engineers to fit a GM V8 – but Blackjack wasn’t designed to test engines or transmissions. Its function was to test the basics of the chassis layout; suspension hard points, engine location, centre of gravity and the like.

Besides the relocation of the engine from in front to behind the driver, the C8 also runs conventional coil spring-based suspension, rather than the oddball composite transverse components fitted to the C7.

Holden vF ute Blackjack Corvette C8


Blackjack is basically Genesis – the first of the first for the Corvette C8.


Check out the link !!

Another mule from my era is by Chrysler:
397 is for all purposes a factory Hemi6pack VFX Pacer ute. It is complianced as a special and is the only verified VF Pacer ute known to have left the factory! It was built with a full VG Pacer interior, had a variety of technical specifications in its time including initial testing of the 265 6 pack engine, and factory testing of the 340 4 speed settup.

On closure of the racing development program the ute was sold to Leo Geoghegan and became the tow car for his racing efforts. It was also a "loaner" to many foreign drivers who visited our shores. The car was sold from Geoghegans Sporty Cars and the new owner took it to the NSW central west region. It rarely left the area.
 

Black_White

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Yeah that's a current 'fad'in the 'now'. So right now an A9X is worth somewhere in the minimum around 80 - 100k right, before the news last Monday.

Anyone who has any interest in cars will know what that car is and will view it as an investment. Just because v8 sedans aren't popular among the don't give a sh*t about cars public or that the majority of the now teens won't know what it is doesn't mean they won't increase in value.

I'll be calling Shannons in regards to my LJ and WM Statesman to negotiate the agreed value. They may not increase in value immediately but I'm willing to bet they will increase as a result of the brand closing down at some point. The LJ in particular.
These guys weren’t putting away an A9X or anything particularly exciting or small runs.
 

Carringbush2010

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Yeah, not every car with a Holden badge is going to be a valuable collectors piece. Not much chance I'll hang onto my ute under the impression I'm sitting on a goldmine.
There are many factors as to whether or not a Holden will increase in value because it's a Holden, certainly badge types are already investment pieces. Think SS SLR XU1 GTS GTR Sandman Grange Senator to name a few not to mention factory optioned cars like mine (LJ optioned with an M21 box and XU1 dash). Or cars that have always been in registration (like mine). For anyone that's interested:
1582461906738.png



On the flipside you'd have cars like Barina, Cruze, Camira, Jackaroo to name a few are not likely to have much if any increase in value, however somewhere someone will pay the asking price for a Barina, Camira etc.
 

Kwality

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There are many factors as to whether or not a Holden will increase in value because it's a Holden, certainly badge types are already investment pieces. Think SS SLR XU1 GTS GTR Sandman Grange Senator to name a few not to mention factory optioned cars like mine (LJ optioned with an M21 box and XU1 dash). Or cars that have always been in registration (like mine). For anyone that's interested:
View attachment 827947


On the flipside you'd have cars like Barina, Cruze, Camira, Jackaroo to name a few are not likely to have much if any increase in value, however somewhere someone will pay the asking price for a Barina, Camira etc.
Last Holden V8 models ....
 

Carringbush2010

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Last Holden V8 models ....
[/QU

The VF? Absolutely! More so than any previous model! Because it's the last Australian assembled car (probably). Bottom line is some Holden models WILL increase in value more so because the brand is closing down like mine in particular.
 

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Lebbo73

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And the solution to the “small“ car parks was to introduce bigger vehicles? Who’s at fault here?
The 1970’s & 80’s Fairlanes, Falcon, Kingswoods & Commodores were as wide and longer than SUV’s we drive today. There’s no question that car parks aren’t too small.
I bought a brand new CX5 last September. I have three children and we actually went in to buy a CX3. It was too small. No one was getting in the back behind the driver and nothing fit in the boot. We traded in a crappy 2008 Holden Captiva.
In saying this, we own a 2011 Ford Territory SZ Titanium 2.7Lt turbo diesel 7 seater. My daughter and I play cricket on Saturday’s so it’s very handy. Plus, I’m always going to Brisbane and back because of her cricket and another daughter’s singing talents.
There’s a good reason why we don’t drive Mini’s anymore.
 

wizardwaffle

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I actually have no issue with the government divvying out subsidies but even they couldn't save the industry. Without the ability to export in any reasonable numbers, the death of Holden and Ford (and collaterally, Toyota) was inevitable.

Holden, sadly, was a lame duck. After the giddy heights of 2002-2005 where they sold 175,000+ cars per year, those sales had plummeted to less than 120,000 by 2009. Last year they sold just over 43,000 cars. They took a dump on their own loyal following by introducing a range of substandard Korean cars that torched their goodwill and the last car that had any attractiveness left to the public was the (real) Commodore. But even the Commodore's sales had haemorrhaged from 80,000+ a year during those years (and a high of nearly 95,000 in 1998) to 45,000 by 2009 and a meagre 28,000 when the end of subsidies was announced in 2013.
Had the subsidies remained, where was Holden's sustainable future going to come from? The Commodore would now be a 14 year old platform now and need of a new mode, which wouldn't happen for a dead market. Even if they built their three highest selling models in house, it would number in the 20,000s. That's not nearly enough volume for any sustainable manufacturing future and with their track record over the past 15 years it's folly to think they'd ever stumble upon a "saviour" model.

In terms of Ford, they were very much in the same boat as Holden. Falcon sales skidded to near a complete halt, from numbering 73,000 sales in 2003 to an unimaginable 14,000 by 2012. The market had moved on from large sedans. Even the much heralded Territory only sold roughly as many numbers as the Falcon. It would be out of production by now anyway as the build from which they were based is now over 20 years old and their replacement options have been sales duds. Unless they built Rangers over here and exported them - impossible when they can be made for a fraction of the price in neighbouring Thailand - just like Holden, there is nothing in Ford's range that could've been a potential manufacturing saviour. In fact, if you take out the figures of the Ranger and Colorado from last years sales figures, Holden actually outsold Ford. Diabolical.

The only sustainable manufacturer was Toyota who exported 70 percent of the Camrys and Corollas they manufactured - over 1,000,000 in total. Unfortunately they had no viable future with the untenable manufacturing of Holden and Ford.
The fact that the Holden brand name is dead is all in the hands of General Motors. Firstly they sold Opel, the company which made most of Holdens vehicles off to Renualt. So they had to find somewhere else to make the cars for Holden. We already knew that the Commodore and Astra were gone, and Holden were going to sell 4WD and SUV from now on. Now they say, we don't make enough money from RHD vehicles so we won't make them, and because of that Holden cease to exist. Opel was are greater influence on Holden, look at all the modern cars of Holden they have been remakes or rebadging of Opels.

What happened to Opel Australia dealers needs to be said as well. The dealers had gotten together to hear what they thought was going to be new vehicles for the up coming year. They were brought into a room and told that Opel in Australia was finished.



I see that Opel Australia could have been relabeled Holden and sold their cars here, with development and design still done in Australia for the Opel cars. It would have been the modern car giant in Opel with the history of Holden behind it. It wasn't going to be like it was back when cars were made here, but we would still have Holdens coming onto the road. There would be little change in the line up which Holden had out here last year, there would still be the Commodore - Opel Insignia, the Astra, the new Holden Corsa - Opel Corsa, the new Holden Crossland - Opel Crossland, Electric Vehicles Ampera, Corsa and Crossland. Vehicles for the workmen could come from the return of the Combo and the arrival of Movano, Vivaro and Zafira. Better than no Holden at all and it would be like Vauxhall in England.

The cars were not substandard Korean cars for long, they did sell some Daewoos as Holdens, but these were not liked by the Australian public, so we didn't sell them here long.

Holden was a lame duck because their American masters are for making vehicles for America, and they aren't RHD vehicles. Ford has continued to sell vehicles in Australia because it sell vehicles in RHD vehicle markets else where in the world. Their vehicles came from the company which General Motors sold, Opel. Which should have been sold with the Holden name.
 
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Black_White

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There are many factors as to whether or not a Holden will increase in value because it's a Holden, certainly badge types are already investment pieces. Think SS SLR XU1 GTS GTR Sandman Grange Senator to name a few not to mention factory optioned cars like mine (LJ optioned with an M21 box and XU1 dash). Or cars that have always been in registration (like mine). For anyone that's interested:
View attachment 827947



On the flipside you'd have cars like Barina, Cruze, Camira, Jackaroo to name a few are not likely to have much if any increase in value, however somewhere someone will pay the asking price for a Barina, Camira etc.
The Mrs had an Sri Barina. Made in Spain I think. That normal Barina had a 1.4ltr, but the Sri had a 1.8 and it was a little cracker of a car. Would easily take V8’s off the line at lights, though they would swamp you further up the road. The look on some of these guys faces was priceless when you left them for dead initially.
A mate of mine had his brother die a year or so ago. The man was a hoarder and he found a couple of Toranas in his shed. One in particular was pretty much mint.
He sold it and had enough money from the sale to buy a tricked up Audi.
F617F7B4-5072-4FCB-9258-64CA3D4E794A.jpeg
765DA5A1-D54E-40E3-A073-7048E72E1A0A.jpeg
39775496-DB66-4190-B625-DAF40E9EB352.jpeg
 

Carringbush2010

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The Mrs had an Sri Barina. Made in Spain I think. That normal Barina had a 1.4ltr, but the Sri had a 1.8 and it was a little cracker of a car. Would easily take V8’s off the line at lights, though they would swamp you further up the road. The look on some of these guys faces was priceless when you left them for dead initially.
A mate of mine had his brother die a year or so ago. The man was a hoarder and he found a couple of Toranas in his shed. One in particular was pretty much mint.
He sold it and had enough money from the sale to buy a tricked up Audi.
View attachment 828237View attachment 828238View attachment 828239
That's a car that 'may' increase in value because it's a badged car 'sri' but it won't appreciate the same as this lovely red two door you've posted here. Even though this car is not an SS or slr it will likely increase in value more because A/ It's a Torana and B/ It's wholly and solely Australian made. Unlike the Barina example you've used.
 

Black_White

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The 1970’s & 80’s Fairlanes, Falcon, Kingswoods & Commodores were as wide and longer than SUV’s we drive today. There’s no question that car parks aren’t too small.
I bought a brand new CX5 last September. I have three children and we actually went in to buy a CX3. It was too small. No one was getting in the back behind the driver and nothing fit in the boot. We traded in a crappy 2008 Holden Captiva.
In saying this, we own a 2011 Ford Territory SZ Titanium 2.7Lt turbo diesel 7 seater. My daughter and I play cricket on Saturday’s so it’s very handy. Plus, I’m always going to Brisbane and back because of her cricket and another daughter’s singing talents.
There’s a good reason why we don’t drive Mini’s anymore.
Hard to blame ’s and beyond.
Fuel prices were a part of that, but both major manufacturers downsized their big sellers, the Japanese were already there, and because of that the car parks reduced the size of their spaces.
Why we have decided to upsize again hasn’t been recognised by the car park operators. And who can blame them? Changing the sizes to accomodate the ridiculous sizes of these vehicles today would be detrimental to their business model.
I work in the building supply industry. We are a trade offering and I’ve been doing it for over 30 years. I can tell you that the “utes” that the trade now use are utterly useless as a work vehicle. Cannot carry a standard door in the tray without breaking the law and possibly losing the load as the pivot point is dangerously close to tipping it out.
Racks aren’t really made for these vehicles and if they do attach one, they are to high to load. And I’m 6’5”!
We’ve followed the USofA and it hasn’t made any sense.
 

Galaxie77

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AlbertM has this as his tag on every post on V8 Central
”Ford fans be proud. History of Australian motor racing shows Ford has been and will always be superior. They have to slow them down when they get serious about racing. The Phase 4 scared the **** out of people, they banned it. Sierra gets called on a technicality, Falcon EF "...had its wings clipped to make Holden part of the show", AU not allowed to show it's potential, Falcon BF gets clipped. Mustang Is so good Supercars made up a rule and gets a bag of cement in the roof, and it still wins.
_Mford”

Explains perfectly why plenty of Ford fans gave Supercars the flick many years ago. I even dropped off from about 2014 until 2018.
That dude is pushing it a bit... they have changed the rules before to benefit Ford too... Project blueprint....
It was not only the Phase 4, it was the XU-1 V8 and the Charger 340 that unfortunately brought on the super car scare.
The European Sierra team was caught cheating in 87.... bad luck.
Some just cant let go of the rivalry and enjoy the cars that were made here.
 

Carringbush2010

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That dude is pushing it a bit... they have changed the rules before to benefit Ford too... Project blueprint....
It was not only the Phase 4, it was the XU-1 V8 and the Charger 340 that unfortunately brought on the super car scare.
The European Sierra team was caught cheating in 87.... bad luck.
Some just cant let go of the rivalry and enjoy the cars that were made here.
The XU1 V8 was probably the tipping point, we're talking about a merely if even a one tonne car with a 200+ kw engine in it, in the early 1970's no less. Even these days that's a seriously scary proposition. Something from nearly 50 years ago I might add, only WRX's and Evos come to mind of similar power to weight ratios - if they even meet that. If I am correct both of those cars ARE heavier than an XU1. Yes even the Lancer

Remember the XY GT was 260 kw - standard- standard! Even that was not enough to scare the government of the time, although I'm sure there would've concerned conversations around it.

The phase 4 GT would've possibly been just as scary - possibly, Ford Australia's V8 development was almost world ground breaking at the time. As was Holden's.
 

Black_White

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That's a car that 'may' increase in value because it's a badged car 'sri' but it won't appreciate the same as this lovely red two door you've posted here. Even though this car is not an SS or slr it will likely increase in value more because A/ It's a Torana and B/ It's wholly and solely Australian made. Unlike the Barina example you've used.
I would never consider the Barina to be collectable. Because it’s a Barina! Just a hell of a little hottie.
The Torana I pictured went for over 80k. So yeah, good result.
The question I ask, and you have correctly identified that it’s not a good badge, is will it be worth that money in 30 years? When the lovers of these 70’s cars are dead and the Lion is forgotten.
 

Carringbush2010

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I would never consider the Barina to be collectable. Because it’s a Barina! Just a hell of a little hottie.
The Torana I pictured went for over 80k. So yeah, good result.
The question I ask, and you have correctly identified that it’s not a good badge, is will it be worth that money in 30 years? When the lovers of these 70’s cars are dead and the Lion is forgotten.
To be honest yes I do think that car will be worth good coin in 30 years time, there's a lot of young people that are into these old cars even though are 20, 30 years their junior. Go to any club and it's not unlikely you'll find father and son, mother and daughter members with junior being anywhere from primary school age and into to their 30's and 40's.

So no I don't subscribe to the idea that in 30 years time all of a sudden Holden will just fall off a cliff as a memory.
 

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