Holding on to the dream

Joined
Jan 8, 2009
Posts
1,964
Likes
1,280
Location
Geelong
AFL Club
Geelong
Other Teams
Geelong reserves,Falcons,
Thread starter #1
If we are sucessful or not this year I think we may need to offload some ageing premiership players so we can develop Gillies,duncan,Simpson,Motlop etc prior to some significant retirements.

Should we strategically trade someone of relevant value to gain a quick mid or Key position next year as the draft will be comprimised.

Perhaps a deal with the devil (Gold Coast)

We all want to keep the romance of holding on to all of our premiership heroes but we don't want to sacrifice our devlopment and sustained success ?
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Vdubs

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Jan 1, 2008
Posts
27,399
Likes
25,182
Location
48 J 09
AFL Club
Geelong
Other Teams
Arsenal
#3
Milburn, Rooke, Scarlett
Milburn-age, time up
Rooke-nothing more to give?
Scarlett-maybe same as Rooke?
If they all gracefully retire, we have a lot more $ options. Only suggest them if they are stuffed
 
Joined
Jun 7, 2009
Posts
1,121
Likes
2
Location
Geelong
AFL Club
Geelong
#4
I don't think Milburn will go past this year. I think Scarlett has at least 1 more year in him after this year but if he has more trouble with injuries this year he may not. I don't think we really need to trade anyone.
 

Turbocat

Premium Platinum
Joined
Dec 10, 2003
Posts
35,913
Likes
31,482
Location
Newtown
AFL Club
Geelong
#5
NO , I don't want instigate a trade of anyone of the players who brought an end to our generational drought. Sure you may be able to make a case for it , and if you pick a really descent player you may get a decent trade but I don't wan't to lose anyone.I certainly don't want to mess with the vibe and put players of side. You may find adverse consequences with more players deciding to chase the dollars. Look at Bradshaw now at the Swans. Not Happy Jan with Voss.

Now I understand , its a business. Certainly some may want to move for a longer contract offer or better money, in that case we should try to resolve it to our best ability but for us to throw names around , NO.

Anyway , who do you have in mind. I really doubt any aging star will pull the great deal your after. One must remember that for any buyer there must be some tread left on the tyres , a bit fuel left in the tank To trade for a top 10 pick , it would take someone of the status of Bartel or Kelly and I think they have earned the right to stay.
 

Big Fozza

Premiership Player
Joined
Mar 23, 2009
Posts
4,976
Likes
2,391
Location
Brisbane
AFL Club
Geelong
#6
I agree with turbo cat.

There's no point in trading out a proven quality player for an unproven youngster. Milburn is in his last year and maybe wojak as well but I think everyone else, particularly scarlo have a bit left in the tank.

I think Bomber and co are trying to build a lasting legacy and stay competitive. This means no massive changes but slowly blooding players to take over spots. See what happened to WC and how quickly losing a couple of stars can ruin a side.

To me it's not about holding onto premiership players for the sake of it but keeping quality, proven players whilst staying competitve, strong and in he mix for another flag.
 

Pure_Ownage

Premium Platinum
Joined
Nov 26, 2008
Posts
33,636
Likes
30,871
Location
PODS fan club office
AFL Club
Geelong
#7
I wouldn't think so.

The only exception would be if Mooney wants a retirement package with GC.

We shouldn't trade out key 25-26 year old midfielders, who will be the core of keeping our window open beyond this year.

I would think that the likely retirements of Milburn Wojac and maybe Scarlett at the end of the year (which should enable Ling to go to the veterans list I think), combined with the continued willingness of guys to take less $$ than they could get elsewhere, should help.

The biggest risk, as always with a tight salary cap is that youngsters (i.e. Hogan and so on) will go elsewhere in search of more opportunities.
 

pinion

Club Legend
Joined
Sep 24, 2009
Posts
1,737
Likes
489
Location
melbourne
AFL Club
Geelong
#8
i think milburn, scarlett, wojcinski, rooke and mooney are all year by year prospects now.

i think our attitude beyond 2010 will depend a lot on the gold coast's recruiting. if they get ablett or selwood i think our window is slammed shut, if we keep them and they happen to poach a big name from st kilda, the bulldogs or collingwood then we're probably ahead of the pack.

with two weak drafts ahead, we're probably better off making the minimum required changes to our list
 

Turbocat

Premium Platinum
Joined
Dec 10, 2003
Posts
35,913
Likes
31,482
Location
Newtown
AFL Club
Geelong
#9
...
with two weak drafts ahead, we're probably better off making the minimum required changes to our list
Actually I believe the draft is quite a deep draft this year. Looking back we certainly haven't been afraid to go with our instincts ( or should I say Well's insticts) , for eg in 2005 it was already know that 2006 would be a strong draft.
One might have thought we might have done the min and take an extra the following year , yet we ended up having 5 picks with Stokes being our fifth pick@61. I think it was only Thurley deciding to move onto the Roos that gave us that pick so sometimes luck is a kind mistress , but to know who to pick with that late pick was not luck.

As has been discussed we probably have a heap of Rookies that look promising. GFC may feel confident that they will become senior players and not want to lose them. So we may only use two picks and promote these Rookies.

On the other hand if we loose more players in the off season than we could now anticipate , we may just use more picks this year if SW thinks the right players is there. The third pick for the Premier will be 59 still a place where one can get a decent player and it wouldn't sunrise if we picked one of our VFL players like Raidme or Bright.
 

pinion

Club Legend
Joined
Sep 24, 2009
Posts
1,737
Likes
489
Location
melbourne
AFL Club
Geelong
#10
Actually I believe the draft is quite a deep draft this year. Looking back we certainly haven't been afraid to go with our instincts ( or should I say Well's insticts) , for eg in 2005 it was already know that 2006 would be a strong draft.
you might be right, but on purely anecdotal evidence the gold coast has already taken 12 players that would have been eligible for this year's draft and the cats are unlikely to get a pick inside the top 20

then again, last year's draft was said to be terrible, but we look to have at least three pretty handy players out of it so far

none the less, i wouldn't be rebuilding our list with this year's draft
 

Turbocat

Premium Platinum
Joined
Dec 10, 2003
Posts
35,913
Likes
31,482
Location
Newtown
AFL Club
Geelong
#11
Rebuilding a list is an euphemism for "we stuffed up and are trying to rectify it". Richmond has been rebuilding for close to 30 years , in good drafts and bad with plenty of early picks and late they have managed to always need to "Rebuild" every 5 years or so.

The way we are blooding players seems to be very clever way of giving experience to our young group , to prepare them for a day not to far away when they must become the mainstays.

Rather than rebuild I hope we can correctly manage our list just like its a F1 Race Team,
- get the best possible personnel for your team
- develop your equipment for optimum performance and strategic advantage - maintain your equipment for maximum performance
- develop your future equipment to keep up and ahead of the opposition.

If an F1 team ever needs to "rebuild" they have really "stuffed up" big time.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Joined
Sep 24, 2008
Posts
1,871
Likes
2
Location
Belmont
AFL Club
Geelong
#12
this thread is worse than the crap i dish out

milburn is in his last year
scarlett has 2-3 years left

any player who has accepted 30% less in salary to stay at geelong stays, i wish i could trade the blasphemous supporters

have a look at fletchers value at essendon
 

pinion

Club Legend
Joined
Sep 24, 2009
Posts
1,737
Likes
489
Location
melbourne
AFL Club
Geelong
#13
Rebuilding a list is an euphemism for "we stuffed up and are trying to rectify it". Richmond has been rebuilding for close to 30 years , in good drafts and bad with plenty of early picks and late they have managed to always need to "Rebuild" every 5 years or so.

The way we are blooding players seems to be very clever way of giving experience to our young group , to prepare them for a day not to far away when they must become the mainstays.

Rather than rebuild I hope we can correctly manage our list just like its a F1 Race Team,
- get the best possible personnel for your team
- develop your equipment for optimum performance and strategic advantage - maintain your equipment for maximum performance
- develop your future equipment to keep up and ahead of the opposition.

If an F1 team ever needs to "rebuild" they have really "stuffed up" big time.
worst analogy ever, unless there's some sort of formula 1 draft that i'm unaware of.

the cats have gotten precious little out of the last few drafts, whether that's through low picks or the players taken with low picks not getting the oportunity. at some point you have to rebuild, especially when we have so many players recruited within a short space of time (99-01)
 

pinion

Club Legend
Joined
Sep 24, 2009
Posts
1,737
Likes
489
Location
melbourne
AFL Club
Geelong
#14
this thread is worse than the crap i dish out

milburn is in his last year
scarlett has 2-3 years left

any player who has accepted 30% less in salary to stay at geelong stays, i wish i could trade the blasphemous supporters

have a look at fletchers value at essendon
scarlett's a year by year proposition now. it doesn't mean he won't play another 4 years, but he had injuries last year and seems to be struggling to get on the park this year. and it's usually injuries rather than form that ends careers these days
 

Reg Hickey

Club Legend
Joined
May 29, 2006
Posts
1,747
Likes
678
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Geelong
#15
worst analogy ever, unless there's some sort of formula 1 draft that i'm unaware of.
And of course the infamous F1 salary cap as well ... :rolleyes:

the cats have gotten precious little out of the last few drafts, whether that's through low picks or the players taken with low picks not getting the oportunity. at some point you have to rebuild, especially when we have so many players recruited within a short space of time (99-01)
"Precious little"? Wtf?

James Podsiadly (2009), Mitch Duncan (2009), Harry Taylor (2007), Shane Mumford (2007), Joel Selwood (2006), Tom Hawkins (2006), Travis Varcoe (2005), Mathew Stokes (2005). There's 5 premiership players in there that have been at the club less than 5 years.

And they're just the ones that have already had a decent impact at senior level. The thing about recent drafts is that the players we picked up are still young :rolleyes: - I'd back it in that quite a few of Menzel, Christensen, Vardy, Ranga, Mitch Brown, Gillies, Motlop, A Varcoe, Big Dawson, Laidler, Djerrkura and Hogan will also make it at senior level when they mature a bit more.

That's a pretty good drafting effort if you ask me. Look up a few other clubs and see how it compares.
 

pinion

Club Legend
Joined
Sep 24, 2009
Posts
1,737
Likes
489
Location
melbourne
AFL Club
Geelong
#16
well it's more the last three drafts that i'd be concerned about. harry taylor was a great find, a few others (duncan and others yet untried) may go on be handy, and a 28 year old podsiadly is hardly a player you can rebuild a forward line around. if you look at what has so far been delivered across the AFL from the 2007-2009 drafts, i think us, the saints and the bulldogs are probably fighting for last spot

my point goes more to the original post though - if we can hang onto our core team at the same time the talent pool is being diluted then we're better off sticking with what we've got rather than delisting in time for a couple of compromised drafts.
 

MC Extra Dollop

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Posts
20,667
Likes
17,014
AFL Club
Geelong
#17
Milburn, Rooke, Scarlett
Milburn-age, time up
Rooke-nothing more to give?
Scarlett-maybe same as Rooke?
If they all gracefully retire, we have a lot more $ options. Only suggest them if they are stuffed
We would get jack s**t for Rooke and Milburn. Certainly not enough to compensate their absence from the team and the potential fallout from the hurt of casting aside two great servents of the club for a couple of very low draft picks (at best).

Scarlett is worth more to us than anything we would get in return for him. You've got to appreciate the romance of these guys staying as one-club players. We don't have s**t in the AFL like players signing one day contracts to retire as a (insert nickname of the team the player spent most of his career with, only to leave for more money, or because of a falling out). FFS, would you want to see Scarlett in another jumper??
 

Turbocat

Premium Platinum
Joined
Dec 10, 2003
Posts
35,913
Likes
31,482
Location
Newtown
AFL Club
Geelong
#18
worst analogy ever, unless there's some sort of formula 1 draft that i'm unaware of.

the cats have gotten precious little out of the last few drafts, whether that's through low picks or the players taken with low picks not getting the oportunity. at some point you have to rebuild, especially when we have so many players recruited within a short space of time (99-01)
I tell you what the worst analogy is , to compare a sporting team / franchise to a building

You totally missed the point. Its not about where you get the talent , whether its drafted or whatever . Its about getting the best talent you can get your hands on , making them the best they can be , maintaining them with the best support , and at the same time have a plan for the future of your team by developing more talent for the future.

Its not that long ago that Geelong was considered a very reasonable but ordinary team with no star power. The vast majority of our team has come from picks that every other team could have taken. We didn't get our success given to us , it was developed making the most of what had. We have no Cooney's or Riewoldts gained thru poor performance, we have not been able to pick the obvious youthful talent. Duncan is just the latest example of this , how long will it be till they start wondering how he fell true to us.

If you have to "Rebuild" then you have had a flaw in you organisations approach in the past. Sure there are times when you may have bigger adjustments, when a bigger group leaves but this idea that you must rebuilding to have success is incorrect , IMO.
 

AidanNelson2009

Team Captain
Suspended
Joined
Jul 11, 2009
Posts
407
Likes
0
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Geelong
Other Teams
Manchester United
#19
Darren Milburn won't play on after this season, Matthew Scarlett has atleast 2 more years left in him and Rooke is still a very important player to this current Geelong team. Our young guys will get chances to develop, we don't need to offload some of our premiership players just so our young rookies can get game time. Duncan has already played about 5 games this season, along with Hogan who has played 2. Players like Motlop, Laidler and Simpson will get there time in the first team when they are ready and when a few of out premiership players call it a day. Obviously we still want to invest in some good players in the draft and keep recruiting good talent so the Cats don't bottom out and stay up there with the best, but look at Sydney, they won the 2005 flag, 5 years later and they are back up near the top. I believe the cats could do this. Right now the average age of our players is 25, which is fantastic.
 
Top Bottom