MRP / Trib. Holeman and Plowman both Given 2 Weeks WTF

[lordbob]

High contact is generally only paid in a marking contest when the players first intent is not the ball, or when their attempt at the ball is unrealistic. Which is outlined in the rules.

Just like when a player takes a specky and he clips the back of an opponents head it is not a free kick.

Intent to contest the ball overrides everything, particularly in a marking contest.

Not true, if you have your right hand on the oponents shoulder slightly and punch with your left, you are paid for high contact.

 

[Arr0w]

WHy is his foot above omeras foot then? being taller doesnt mean your feet are higher off the ground, he jumped into omera, if omera wasnt there he would have continued his upwards trajectory and gotten a bit higher still more so than a normal running motion.

If you are leaning forward you are making your shoulder lower to the ground, so that he is leaning and his shoulder ends higher than 10cm above omeras shoulder tells you the truth you clearly dont want to see.

Rubbish, it was similar to a sprinter's elevation

 

[Sam The Doc]

Lordbob.. take a break. have some dinner, relax, unwind. O'Meara will be in the team next time Hawthorn play, no need to look for any kind of payback.

 

[lordbob]

its not payback, i just dont want this to be common place in the afl. players shouldnt be jumping into other players heads with their shoulders. wouldnt want a hawk player to do the same thing. its dangerous and can seriously hurt people.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

its not payback, i just dont want this to be common place in the afl. players shouldnt be jumping into other players heads with their shoulders. wouldnt want a hawk player to do the same thing. its dangerous and can seriously hurt people.

When this usually happens, the player might make contact with the shoulder initially and then it slides up into the jaw or head. In this case, Plowman made contact with O'Meara's shoulder and O'Meara's head tilted over to make contact with the top of Plowman's shoulder/neck area. It was a secondary impact.

 

[Monkey King]

No one is contending taht his original intent wasnt to go for the ball. He was clearly going for the ball until the last second when he changed his mind when he saw omera and he braced for impact and JUMPED INTO omera.

And here's the problem when you slow it down and overwatch the slo-mo. It wasn't the last second Plowman braced for O'Meara's contact, it was the last millisecond. Almost faster than the conscious mind has time to process. As a number of former players have said about this dodgy suspension, Plowman's action is like flinching, it's instinctive.

I encourage you to try it yourself. Put you arms by your sides and just fall down flat on your face without lifting your arms to brace. Bet you can't, and that's with plenty of cognitive forewarning.

You can see Plowman below from frames within about the last 0.5 seconds, with a fist held out to the ball, foot on the ground, right the way through to the collision. O'Meara caught Plowman halfway between a step of him running at full speed. Plowman did not launch himself into O'Meara. The whole HE JUMPED INTO HIM part is bullshit to me.

If he jumps with an arm out then brings the arm in, its a brace. If he braces then jumps its a bump. He braced then jumped. Arms were never extended to contest legitimately.

Sounds like a set of imaginary rules from someone who doesn't actually play football.

As the above photos show - Plowman had fist extended. Perhaps the angle between the humorous and radius was too acute to qualify as an "extension" under your pedantic imaginary rules?

 

[al sleiman]

What a load of crap.

I never tried to exonerate Hartigan for elbowing Walsh or thought for one second he shouldn't be suspended. The 3 match ban is about right. Hartigan clearly threw an elbow and got Walsh in the head, so everyone knew he was a goner. I was merely querying his intentions. Was he aiming for the head? It seemed like such a foolish flagrant act, and so late in the game.

I'd only seen the Carlton fan's footage from high up on level 3, so I was initially giving him the benefit of the doubt. I wondered if maybe he was aiming for Walsh's shoulder and misjudged the distance. Maybe it skimmed Walsh's shoulder and deflected upwards.

Many times throughout every game, players throw elbows into each other's arms, chests and backs when they're met with blocks and shepherds away from the ball, or when they're getting into melees and push & shoving contests. It's common. And sometimes it goes wrong...

But now that I've seen the AFL camera footage from a lower angle, I think it clearly was a dog shot from Hartigan. He is lucky he didn't hurt Walsh or else he would've got a 4 or 5 match ban.



Anyone who throws a punch or elbow should get weeks if they get someone in the head. Everyone agrees on that.


But this doesn't mean players like Plowman shouldn't also be suspended when they stuff up and recklessly bump an opponent in the head. It wasn't his intention, but players still need to be held to account when they get it wrong and concuss an opponent. The game has changed. Players have to show a duty of care.

Plowman had enough time to make a decision. He wasn't blindsided by O'Meara. He went in for the mark or spoil, to make a contest... but then he chose to protect himself & he bumped O'Meara in the head.

It definitely should've been a free kick. I'm still in two minds whether he should be suspended. It wasn't deliberate and malicious. But the AFL have to draw a line somewhere for that type of situation. We can't have players taking their eye off the ball and cleaning up opponents who are wide open and trying to mark the ball.

My main contention in this thread is that we don't allow bumps to the head in general play when players are chasing a loose ball. So why do people think it's okay to bump a guy in the head when he is trying to mark a pass from a teammate?

Okay... This was an accident... Let's give Plowman a pass. Let him play. But I'd hate to see other players getting away with this. The AFL (and umpires) have to start cracking down on players who are not making a legit attempt to mark or spoil, but are simply crashing into their opponent to prevent them from marking the ball.

Let's leave that shiit to the NFL.


edit: actually... even the NFL no longer allows head high hits on defenceless wide receivers... and they wear helmets and padding.
NFL defensive backs used to earn their pay by coming off the line like Plowman did and smashing the crap out of receivers who'd just caught the ball.
That was how they were expected to knock the ball loose and prevent the completed catch. It was a BRUTAL game. But even the NFL people have come to their senses and they realise they must protect the brain cells of their wide receivers and so they've outlawed that type of defense.

The AFL have followed the NFL's lead on concussion protocols, so I'd be surprised if they 'dropped the ball' on this issue.
But it's the tribunal chooklotto, so who knows? Maybe it will take another 2 or 3 of these incidents before they make the rules clear.

Plenty of Carlton fans started calling me names before I did. People called me an idiot, a dummy, a nuffie, told me I was "full of sh*t" and "dribbling". But I can understand why you might've missed that. It must be difficult to read every post in threads like this when you've only got one eye open.

One was intentional and the other was defensive impact 2 different fruit, one is semi a accident and Harriman was a plain stupid selfish act

 

[DamoESP]

Good to see the club are appealing the Tribunals decision, hearing is at 5pm eastern

 

[sprockets]

And here's the problem when you slow it down and overwatch the slo-mo. It wasn't the last second Plowman braced for O'Meara's contact, it was the last millisecond. Almost faster than the conscious mind has time to process. As a number of former players have said about this dodgy suspension, Plowman's action is like flinching, it's instinctive.

I encourage you to try it yourself. Put you arms by your sides and just fall down flat on your face without lifting your arms to brace. Bet you can't, and that's with plenty of cognitive forewarning.

You can see Plowman below from frames within about the last 0.5 seconds, with a fist held out to the ball, foot on the ground, right the way through to the collision. O'Meara caught Plowman halfway between a step of him running at full speed. Plowman did not launch himself into O'Meara. The whole HE JUMPED INTO HIM part is bullshit to me.


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Sounds like a set of imaginary rules from someone who doesn't actually play football.

As the above photos show - Plowman had fist extended. Perhaps the angle between the humorous and radius was too acute to qualify as an "extension" under your pedantic imaginary rules?

What you're failing to understand is that before he braced for impact he saw that he wasn't going to be in a position to mark . Probably well before, considering O'Meara was within his range of sight. He didn't even try a late spoil, which goes against him, and instead he simply decided to run through O'Meara. If his braced arm was outstretched there might be a case for an attempted spoil and he probably wouldn't be having a holiday. His problem was that he didn't go for the ball.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

contact seconds before

I don't think you know how long a second is.

 

[theiaofseed]

I don't think you know how long a second is.

Had over 3 second before making contact

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

its not payback, i just dont want this to be common place in the afl. players shouldnt be jumping into other players heads with their shoulders. wouldnt want a hawk player to do the same thing. its dangerous and can seriously hurt people.

With stills I can 'prove' that in a car accident someone's car jumped into mine. You've never done physics right? The force of a collision at high speed will see objects leave the ground. When freeze frames are then applied you can try to prove the car jumped. It ******* didn't though did it.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

What you're failing to understand is that before he braced for impact he saw that he wasn't going to be in a position to mark . Probably well before, considering O'Meara was within his range of sight. He didn't even try a late spoil, which goes against him, and instead he simply decided to run through O'Meara. If his braced arm was outstretched there might be a case for an attempted spoil and he probably wouldn't be having a holiday. His problem was that he didn't go for the ball.

Correct weight. Lucky to not get more weeks.

zero attempt to mark and a questionable attempt to spoil.

He tried to make O’meara earn it. He fudged it.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Had over 3 second before making contact

And he was lining up a chest mark for most of them, not a bump. You stated he spent seconds lining up a bump. Rubbish make-believe of sad 'fans' who can't extend their observations beyond the bias. If the contest was the other way around it'd be fine, because that's the way fan bias works, and there's far too much of it on display.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Correct weight. Lucky to not get more weeks.

zero attempt to mark and a questionable attempt to spoil.

He tried to make O’meara earn it. He fudged it.

He went for a chest mark and had someone come across him from the side at the last fraction of a second. You watched hodge do dog 'make them earn it' acts for years, surprised you can't tell the difference between a contest and sniping.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

He went for a chest mark and had someone come across him from the side at the last fraction of a second. You watched hodge do dog 'make them earn it' acts for years, surprised you can't tell the difference between a contest and sniping.

“He went for a chest mark”

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

“He went for a chest mark”

Unsurprising reply, glass ego? What else was he doing running directly at the ball then, considering o'meara wasn't in that line for most of that time?

 

[theiaofseed]

And he was lining up a chest mark for most of them, not a bump. You stated he spent seconds lining up a bump. Rubbish make-believe of sad 'fans' who can't extend their observations beyond the bias. If the contest was the other way around it'd be fine, because that's the way fan bias works, and there's far too much of it on display.

Funny that's the exact reason why he was suspended but I'm the one which is bias and sad, not the person defending a player which caused a concussion

 

[Monkey King]

What you're failing to understand is that before he braced for impact he saw that he wasn't going to be in a position to mark . Probably well before, considering O'Meara was within his range of sight. He didn't even try a late spoil, which goes against him, and instead he simply decided to run through O'Meara. If his braced arm was outstretched there might be a case for an attempted spoil and he probably wouldn't be having a holiday. His problem was that he didn't go for the ball.

Plowman is a defender. Marking wasn't his intention. He ran to contest the incoming ball. Had a fist clenched and extended out from his body the whole way up to contact, as the screenshots in the post you replied to clearly show. There is no rule stating you must extend your arm out fully at a certain angle.

How anyone could not consider that a marking contest is just staggering.

 

[Monkey King]

Correct weight. Lucky to not get more weeks.

zero attempt to mark and a questionable attempt to spoil.

He tried to make O’meara earn it. He fudged it.

Old rubber neck O'Meara ran into a contest with no awareness to protect himself. If Plowman's suspension is upheld the only thing fudged here is the game.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Gotta love the Carlton fans throwing the lame insults at a player who dared to mark the ball and was concussed for doing so


Says a fair bit about you, fellas.

 

[Gethelred]

Gotta love the Carlton fans throwing the lame insults at a player who dared to mark the ball and was concussed for doing so


Says a fair bit about you, fellas.

Wonders why Hawthorn players players are copping it after this...




And this...




And this...




And this...




And this...





Are you sure you follow the sport if you're wondering why your player's copping it a bit, after a literal decade of your players sniping other sides?

 

[lordbob]

With stills I can 'prove' that in a car accident someone's car jumped into mine. You've never done physics right? The force of a collision at high speed will see objects leave the ground. When freeze frames are then applied you can try to prove the car jumped. It ******* didn't though did it.

just watch the video and you see at the last second he turns and jumps into it. case closed nothing mroe to see. Stills are there for those who are too lazy to go see the vid in slow mo for themselves.

 

[YeoShuey]

Rubbish decision by the Appeal board.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Wonders why Hawthorn players players are copping it after this...




And this...




And this...




And this...




And this...





Are you sure you follow the sport if you're wondering why your player's copping it a bit, after a literal decade of your players sniping other sides?

How cooked are you to think that any of those clips are relevant to the O’meara concussion?