List Mgmt. Honest analysis of our playing list - "is it the cowboy, or the cattle?"

[Chadwiko]

The current head of football talent was there for every decision post 2019.

Then the current administration thought trading away a top 2 pick would help us get out of it.

This is the key thing to takeaway from the table I put together in the OP; the current list manager has been here for six years, and only five of the players on our entire list (that weren't father-son selections) weren't recruited by him.

He's the person in charge of list building and recruitment and retention. He's overseen it during the worst period of results in the clubs history.

Either we're a club that demands accountability or we are not. It's that simple.

 

[Only Forwards]

Either we're a club that demands accountability or we are not. It's that simple.

We are nice and affable and not anywhere near as ruthless as required.

on field or off it.

 

[Themanbun]

There's no one we let go in 2020 that would have made any real difference to this. They were the reason we were that bad to begin with. I know you think Jy doesn't chase enough and LDU too. Higgo was their mentor. He never chased enough. JMac couldn't tackle and was okay at attacking off the HBF but not that good at defending, especially teams that beat us on transition outside.

There was no one else that we delisted that was a 150 game North vet.

We can't talk about having not gutted good experience though and then when we did go "yeah but not those guys".

Tarrant and Higgo were pushed early. They both would've been able to impart a lot of knowledge.

Ziebell retired and we still haven't really replaced him with anyone better. He could've gone around again.

Guys like Anderson could've been kept around for second tier accountability and pressure on the firsts.

Goldstein pushed out and we're currently playing Teakle and CCJ lmao.

Instead of keeping some guys with footy brains around and experience they can impart, we've replaced them with blokes who were never gonna make it, and in some cases paid a pretty penny to do so.

We did this deliberately in order to sink and through hubris didn't think we'd drown.

There is absolutely no point cutting experienced guys willing to teach if you're replacing them with blokes who've no chance of making it. When you do that, we can't then turn around and complain about how we had no experience to kick off this rebuild.

 

[Chadwiko]

There is absolutely no point cutting experienced guys willing to teach if you're replacing them with blokes who've no chance of making it. When you do that, we can't then turn around and complain about how we had no experience to kick off this rebuild.

Extremely well-said. You're 100% correct.

 

[Themanbun]

I'm not saying these blokes would be responsible for heaps more wins, but the lessons they imparted would've helped speed run this development.

Higgo could've taught the Simpkins, Powells etc. how to play with a gun clearance mid. Tarrant would've been great for Comben. Goldy would've been awesome for both rucks and mids. Ziebell could've helped coach on field on almost any line, and at the very least help the blokes in the VFL.

The best lessons you'll get as a youngsters in elite sport are playing on old heads in match sim and intra clubs, as they talk you through what you should be trying and what they should be trying to do to you (even if their bodies don't let them anymore).

I don't for a second buy it that there's never been a rebuild like it. We did this to ourselves.

 

[Chadwiko]

I'm not saying these blokes would be responsible for heaps more wins, but the lessons they imparted would've helped speed run this development.

No, and anyone who implies that's the argument being put forth is either arguing in bad-faith... or they're an idiot.

The point is, if you're going to cut to the bone in order to fast-track a rebuild, you better be damn sure you have the structures and foundations in place that will enable that rebuild to succeed.

We very obviously did not, and every mistake we made was then compounded multiple times because of it.

 

[big_e]

We are nice and affable and not anywhere near as ruthless as required.

on field or off it.

Really?

We were accused of being too ruthless in 2020 when we were culling a dozen players and giving BBB the arse. Ask David Noble if we're too nice. We've "parted ways" with John Blakey, Gavin Brown, Jade Rawlings, pretty much every assistant coach we've had in the past five years. A bunch of recruiters. Brett Ratten wanted a full-time job and we said no.

We've sacked loads of people in the last few years, and put many, many noses out of joint. We went up against overwhelming criticism from the media and other clubs when we got the second round of draft assistance.

We can be criticised for a lot of things but being too nice ain't one of them.

 

[Flawed Genius]

Really?

We were accused of being too ruthless in 2020 when we were culling a dozen players and giving BBB the arse. Ask David Noble if we're too nice. We've "parted ways" with John Blakey, Gavin Brown, Jade Rawlings, pretty much every assistant coach we've had in the past five years. A bunch of recruiters. Brett Ratten wanted a full-time job and we said no.

We've sacked loads of people in the last few years, and put many, many noses out of joint. We went up against overwhelming criticism from the media and other clubs when we got the second round of draft assistance.

We can be criticised for a lot of things but being too nice ain't one of them.

I find it really hard to disagree with this one, but I wonder how much of it is ruthlessness and how much of it is incompetence masquerading as ruthlessness?

 

[ferball]

We can't talk about having not gutted good experience though and then when we did go "yeah but not those guys".

Tarrant and Higgo were pushed early. They both would've been able to impart a lot of knowledge.

Good experience or just experience?

JMac went home from the hub to see his kid born and then didn't come back after r11. The year before he said "winning a game would be nice but it isn't a priority" or wtte early in the season. That mentality is why we are still struggling. We didn't need to keep it around.

I met Jy and Higgo at an airport in 2018 and Jy spent the entire time listening to Higgo pass on information about playing, in general and specific things some other (oppo) mids liked to do. But at the same time I would say that when you criticise Jy and LDU for not working hard enough defensively ... they play exactly like Higgo did on that front.

He never worked hard enough defensively imo and if he'd stayed he wouldn't have made any difference to how our mids play now, certainly not in terms of two way running. They would have learnt alot of good stuff from Higgo and obviously did at the time but they never developed the defensive stuff you wanted to see from them under him and wouldn't have if he'd stayed.

Someone (supposedly itk )on this board claimed Tarrant wanted out after 2020 and only stayed cos JZ convinced him to see out his his contract. So how are you so sure he was pushed? (Tho I agree if he was, it was a bad idea.)

Ziebell retired and we still haven't really replaced him with anyone better. He could've gone around again.

He retired because he was ****ed, physically done. He'd still be playing if he had could.

Guys like Anderson could've been kept around for second tier accountability and pressure on the firsts.

Anderson and Froggy are the only two I think we could use now.

Anderson left because of COVID and its possible Froggy did too. Before the HUB he was always in club media, afterward never did it again. Something changed with him. But they are probably the only two we shouldn't have let go from 2021 onward. Dunno how much choice we had but both would spread defensively immediately and at full pace. Would rather them than Higgo to be honest.

Goldstein pushed out and we're currently playing Teakle and CCJ lmao.

Goldstein shouldn't be playing. He is ****ed. Its wrong. * should be ashamed.

Instead of keeping some guys with footy brains around and experience they can impart, we've replaced them with blokes who were never gonna make it, and in some cases paid a pretty penny to do so.

We did this deliberately in order to sink and through hubris didn't think we'd drown.

There is absolutely no point cutting experienced guys willing to teach if you're replacing them with blokes who've no chance of making it. When you do that, we can't then turn around and complain about how we had no experience to kick off this rebuild.

A few of the players you mentioned (JZ, JMac and Higgo specifically) all contributed to the mentality we have now imo and keeping them round for a rebuild would not have made things better for us.

 

[Lomas]

Good experience or just experience?

JMac went home from the hub to see his kid born and then didn't come back after r11. The year before he said "winning a game would be nice but it isn't a priority" or wtte early in the season. That mentality is why we are still struggling. We didn't need to keep it around.

I met Jy and Higgo at an airport in 2018 and Jy spent the entire time listening to Higgo pass on information about playing, in general and specific things some other (oppo) mids liked to do. But at the same time I would say that when you criticise Jy and LDU for not working hard enough defensively ... they play exactly like Higgo did on that front.

He never worked hard enough defensively imo and if he'd stayed he wouldn't have made any difference to how our mids play now, certainly not in terms of two way running. They would have learnt alot of good stuff from Higgo and obviously did at the time but they never developed the defensive stuff you wanted to see from them under him and wouldn't have if he'd stayed.

Someone (supposedly itk )on this board claimed Tarrant wanted out after 2020 and only stayed cos JZ convinced him to see out his his contract. So how are you so sure he was pushed? (Tho I agree if he was, it was a bad idea.)



He retired because he was ****ed, physically done. He'd still be playing if he had could.



Anderson and Froggy are the only two I think we could use now.

Anderson left because of COVID and its possible Froggy did too. Before the HUB he was always in club media, afterward never did it again. Something changed with him. But they are probably the only two we shouldn't have let go from 2021 onward. Dunno how much choice we had but both would spread defensively immediately and at full pace. Would rather them than Higgo to be honest.



Goldstein shouldn't be playing. He is ****ed. Its wrong. * should be ashamed.




A few of the players you mentioned (JZ, JMac and Higgo specifically) all contributed to the mentality we have now imo and keeping them round for a rebuild would not have made things better for us.

Poor old Goldie should be an assistant coach, only listed to save on soft cap, at * for sure.

 

[ferball]

Poor old Goldie should be an assistant coach, only listed to save on soft cap, at * for sure.

I'd love to see Goldy back to work with Goad. Not onfield tho.

 

[Dinkers]

The meltdowns have become ridiculous here over the last few weeks. It's starting to resemble the Carlton board.

I get that it's been a very long time, but this team cannot be compared with any other rebuild in footy history. It's a complete rebuild of the playing list and the culture of the club. I doubt a rebuild has ever occurred with just one 200+ gamer from a prior era (LMac). We have had to import experienced players in Daniel, Parker and Darling because we have none. Jy has played in one winning season in nine years.

We lose key players like Xerri and Larkey and it's no surprise that the whole thing falls over. You can't just put Teakle and Maley in there and expect the same performance. We are playing one 100+ gamer in our backline in Daniel - and he wouldn't get a game anywhere else.

There are positives all over the park this year, and if you can't see them then it's because you can't read any deeper than a win-loss record.

The whole thing fell over long before Xerri & Larkey got injured. DYB. Id love to read your positives for the year 2025. And good on you for being positive. Wish I was as I see it as a total shit show

 

[Themanbun]

Good experience or just experience?

JMac went home from the hub to see his kid born and then didn't come back after r11. The year before he said "winning a game would be nice but it isn't a priority" or wtte early in the season. That mentality is why we are still struggling. We didn't need to keep it around.

I met Jy and Higgo at an airport in 2018 and Jy spent the entire time listening to Higgo pass on information about playing, in general and specific things some other (oppo) mids liked to do. But at the same time I would say that when you criticise Jy and LDU for not working hard enough defensively ... they play exactly like Higgo did on that front.

He never worked hard enough defensively imo and if he'd stayed he wouldn't have made any difference to how our mids play now, certainly not in terms of two way running. They would have learnt alot of good stuff from Higgo and obviously did at the time but they never developed the defensive stuff you wanted to see from them under him and wouldn't have if he'd stayed.

Someone (supposedly itk )on this board claimed Tarrant wanted out after 2020 and only stayed cos JZ convinced him to see out his his contract. So how are you so sure he was pushed? (Tho I agree if he was, it was a bad idea.)



He retired because he was ****ed, physically done. He'd still be playing if he had could.



Anderson and Froggy are the only two I think we could use now.

Anderson left because of COVID and its possible Froggy did too. Before the HUB he was always in club media, afterward never did it again. Something changed with him. But they are probably the only two we shouldn't have let go from 2021 onward. Dunno how much choice we had but both would spread defensively immediately and at full pace. Would rather them than Higgo to be honest.



Goldstein shouldn't be playing. He is ****ed. Its wrong. * should be ashamed.




A few of the players you mentioned (JZ, JMac and Higgo specifically) all contributed to the mentality we have now imo and keeping them round for a rebuild would not have made things better for us.

I've mentioned a few times, it's not about killing it on field. And it's not about them leading by example as being perfect footballers.

We lost a shit tonne of craft from these blokes getting pushed out for absolute hail Mary plays.

JZ was an excellent reader of the play and rarely was caught out of position.

Higgo had so much stoppage craft to pass on. I daresay he'd have been able to help Phillips and Powell become much better versions of the players they are now at the coalface. The midfield play exactly like Higgo on the transition running front, but have nowhere near his stoppage intelligence. That was worth passing on and it's why Geelong had him working with guys like Holmes from day dot.

Tarrant wasn't auto-gone. The North Melbourne Football Club is absolutely delusional, and I have no idea how or why this stuff 'leaks' whenever we could possibly be perceived to have pushed someone out. We still managed to blame Ben Brown's manager for our handling of his situation when all he did was ask for another year, lmao.

Goldy again could be doing a job for us as a break glass in case of emergency playing coach. I'm not saying he should be a frontline ruck, but he's one of the craftiest players to ever walk out club halls. And we baulked at an extra year for him because we had ****ing Teakle and CCJ.

IMO there hasn't been near enough accountability for this debacle. We make bad lost decision after bad list decision and continually blame blokes who aren't around anymore.

 

[ferball]

I've mentioned a few times, it's not about killing it on field. And it's not about them leading by example as being perfect footballers.

We lost a shit tonne of craft from these blokes getting pushed out for absolute hail Mary plays.

JZ was an excellent reader of the play and rarely was caught out of position.

Higgo had so much stoppage craft to pass on. I daresay he'd have been able to help Phillips and Powell become much better versions of the players they are now at the coalface. The midfield play exactly like Higgo on the transition running front, but have nowhere near his stoppage intelligence. That was worth passing on and it's why Geelong had him working with guys like Holmes from day dot.

Tarrant wasn't auto-gone. The North Melbourne Football Club is absolutely delusional, and I have no idea how or why this stuff 'leaks' whenever we could possibly be perceived to have pushed someone out. We still managed to blame Ben Brown's manager for our handling of his situation when all he did was ask for another year, lmao.

Goldy again could be doing a job for us as a break glass in case of emergency playing coach. I'm not saying he should be a frontline ruck, but he's one of the craftiest players to ever walk out club halls. And we baulked at an extra year for him because we had ****ing Teakle and CCJ.

IMO there hasn't been near enough accountability for this debacle. We make bad lost decision after bad list decision and continually blame blokes who aren't around anymore.

The Taz story came out after the hub iirc, not when he left, ie it came out a year before he left.

JZ and Goldy are physically cooked. Maybe they should have had coaching jobs but they are unable to move properly. Watch Goldy now or a replay of JZ two years ago. When JZ retired he said he was done and Goldy genuinely struggles to play the game.

We got pick 30 for Higgo. Five picks later than Caleb Daniel.

Ben Brown had a massive contract in front of him by his standards. He could have signed it and backed himself in to get an extension but he didn't and then COVID hit.

You talk about accountability but imagine signing Brown for four years at $750K+ in 2020. He played 13 games then 19 then 6 then 7. In his next three years he kicked as many goals as he kicked in one season with us across 2017/18/19. In his last two season's he'd have been payed $750KPA to kick 11 goals from 7 games and 7 goals from 6 games.

In a side with no KPFs!

As bad or worse than the Daniel trade.

 

[amaz199]

I actually don't think the list is that bad. It's just, they don't know how to make things easier for themselves when defending, and when they need to attack. I kinda agree with TMB to an extent. I think we don't have the nous or confidence to execute set plays and back in each other to find the right option, etc.

When Sydney moved the ball, they found it really easy to find options at different angles, not just because they are a better side, but they have a strong connection with each other. Meaning, if they win the ball, they don't stay within 1m of each other; they spread and anticipate the play unfolding. It looks cohesive, but it's simply having some confidence in each other and executing coaching instructions instinctively.

Now, compared to us, when we move the ball, it's fumbly to start. It's rushed, hesitant, missing targets and worse, the one thing we are supposedly 'good' at (winning the clearance) is awful. None of the clearances go deep enough or wide enough, none of the forwards spread or lead enough (let alone work hard enough) and everything is clunky. It's like a bad transmission. When we somehow score, it's through individual brilliance or a lucky piece of play, when opposition score, its how a team working together should score regardless of the talent. A prime example is Stephens spoiling a perfect kick to Zurhaar and Sheezel having to mop up the mess. Individual brilliance got us the goal, but we didn't execute the play like a normal team should. It was rushed and made it harder for ourselves.

TMB makes a great point about the previous players though. They all had some form of experience to pass on, and it would've been integral to basically the youngest team in the AFL. Darling, Parker and even Daniel have helped to an extent, but it's like we've tried to reverse the damage we self-inflicted by desperately looking to get premiership-calibre experience through the door at any cost (regardless of their ability to impact on-field). It sounds great if you're a Geelong or Collingwood, but we're so far and away from a culture that sets standards. It's not going to move the needle much if at all. It has to come from the playing group that continually lets them and us, down.

We've put ourselves into this mess and unless we somehow figure out that we can play better footy for longer, we'll continue to struggle. It doesn't just happen. It needs to come from within and I think a lot of time has been given with very little to show for it.

Rawlings basically delisted those 11 guys to start with, but then he was in charge of the list managers who recruited the same types we needed to avoid (because they were the same types we delisted anyway - players with no upside). Guys like Curtis Taylor

5

Curtis Taylor

Age

25

Ht

188cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

6.0

1star

K

3.0

1star

HB

3.0

3star

M

1.5

2star

T

2.0

4star

CL

0.0

1star

No current season stats available

D

6.0

2star

K

3.0

1star

HB

3.0

3star

M

1.5

2star

T

2.0

4star

CL

0.0

1star

, Jack Mahony

42

Jack Mahony

Age

24

Ht

177cm

Wt

73kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

8.4

2star

K

2.6

1star

HB

5.8

4star

M

1.0

1star

T

2.2

4star

CL

0.0

1star

D

8.4

2star

K

2.6

1star

HB

5.8

3star

M

1.0

1star

T

2.2

3star

CL

0.0

1star

D

8.4

3star

K

2.6

1star

HB

5.8

4star

M

1.0

1star

T

2.2

4star

CL

0.0

1star

, Charlie Lazzaro... like what? What was the point? So we essentially kept going around in circles and were held together by whatever little experience we had left from an era that knew how to play like a team. You can't go into a season with almost zero experience from previous list builds that knew what finals were like or knew how to steady things when opposition got on top. It's not going to end well.

The list is mentally soft, but they can get out of it if they get real stubborn about losing. But I don't think they will. The young players have it tough, but the more experienced blokes that should be leading the way, don't know how to and its dragging back the youngsters.

Geelong are the complete opposite to us. They know how to do everything properly even though their list is nowhere near the quality of the 2011s or whatever. The culture, confidence and standards have all been ingrained into the four walls of the footy club and it's never gonna leave them. They all expect each other to execute the game plan as coached, and play like a normal football team should. They've cleverly held onto senior types with crucial experience so that their young players have a seamless transition from VFL/state leagues to AFL.

I bet Wardlaw, Sheezel and McKercher would be the talk of the town if they had a better senior core around them that knew how to win or had better standards. So much wouldn't be left to so few.

 

[big_e]

The Taz story came out after the hub iirc, not when he left, ie it came out a year before he left.

JZ and Goldy are physically cooked. Maybe they should have had coaching jobs but they are unable to move properly. Watch Goldy now or a replay of JZ two years ago. When JZ retired he said he was done and Goldy genuinely struggles to play the game.

We got pick 30 for Higgo. Five picks later than Caleb Daniel.

Ben Brown had a massive contract in front of him by his standards. He could have signed it and backed himself in to get an extension but he didn't and then COVID hit.

You talk about accountability but imagine signing Brown for four years at $750K+ in 2020. He played 13 games then 19 then 6 then 7. In his next three years he kicked as many goals as he kicked in one season with us across 2017/18/19. In his last two season's he'd have been payed $750KPA to kick 11 goals from 7 games and 7 goals from 6 games.

In a side with no KPFs!

As bad or worse than the Daniel trade.

We could have gone back to Brown and said "things have changed, COVID has reduced the salary cap and your knee's stuffed so how about two to three years, still on very good money but not $750k". Instead we just told him to piss off.

And yeah, his last two years weren't great, but he played 32 games in the first two at Melbourne, and God knows Nick Larkey would have benefitted from not being the only key forward at the ripe old age of 22.

 

[Themanbun]

You talk about accountability but imagine signing Brown for four years at $750K+ in 2020.

I've addressed the rest of it already so will only get to this I think.

I want advocating that. There are a large spectrum of options between yielding to his request and then pulling all offers and telling the world he's cooked and we don't want him.

I merely brought his name up of yet another example where some really poor people management occurred yet NMFC managed to make it someone else's fault.

There's nothing wrong or inherently horrible with his manager saying 'nice contract offer but we'd love an extra year'.

Somehow, people here made it out as if he'd done his client a horrifically insulting disservice and showed an arrogance that warranted how we handled his situation from there. It was piss poor. We got an ordinary pick as a result, and then we blew that ordinary pick.

 

[tazaa]

I think Higgins and Tarrant should have been given deals they wanted and retained.

Goldi moving on was the right call to see Xerri flourish.

Ziebell was cooked for the last 4 years of his career.

I think our drafting has been passable at best.
It’s not hard to **** up an early pick.

It’s the trading and free agent acquisitions that have been below average. Really poor contracts offered to players that their formers clubs were never going to give.

And here we are with a list that still has massive holes in it, nearly 5 years after we started the cull. Basketcase.

 

[ferball]

We could have gone back to Brown and said "things have changed, COVID has reduced the salary cap and your knee's stuffed so how about two to three years, still on very good money but not $750k". Instead we just told him to piss off.

And yeah, his last two years weren't great, but he played 32 games in the first two at Melbourne, and God knows Nick Larkey would have benefitted from not being the only key forward at the ripe old age of 22.

Didn't we just offer him a contract that wasn't as good as the first offer?

 

[ferball]

I've addressed the rest of it already so will only get to this I think.

I want advocating that. There are a large spectrum of options between yielding to his request and then pulling all offers and telling the world he's cooked and we don't want him.

I merely brought his name up of yet another example where some really poor people management occurred yet NMFC managed to make it someone else's fault.

There's nothing wrong or inherently horrible with his manager saying 'nice contract offer but we'd love an extra year'.

Somehow, people here made it out as if he'd done his client a horrifically insulting disservice and showed an arrogance that warranted how we handled his situation from there. It was piss poor. We got an ordinary pick as a result, and then we blew that ordinary pick.

There's nothing wrong with his manager asking for the extra year but there's also nothing wrong with us saying "we don't think you're gonna make it to that extra year," and turning down the offer. There also was alot of talk about his relationships within the club becoming sketchy because of what happened at the hub. Dunno how much truth there is to that. But generally between alot of players there definitely seems to be something because you could see the changes in the way players behaved. How much of that player cull had to do with things breaking down between players ala Adelaide after their infamous camp?

Personally I'd rather we kept Froggy and Jed. They're both young enough to still be playing and both provide exactly what we don't have now. Defensive spread and intensity.

 

[Arthur Cloke]

There's nothing wrong with his manager asking for the extra year but there's also nothing wrong with us saying "we don't think you're gonna make it to that extra year," and turning down the offer. There also was alot of talk about his relationships within the club becoming sketchy because of what happened at the hub. Dunno how much truth there is to that. But generally between alot of players there definitely seems to be something because you could see the changes in the way players behaved. How much of that player cull had to do with things breaking down between players ala Adelaide after their infamous camp?

Personally I'd rather we kept Froggy and Jed. They're both young enough to still be playing and both provide exactly what we don't have now. Defensive spread and intensity.

I hear ya ferball. Let me tell you a story. I went to school at Israel Premier Tech hoping to become a sparky. I spent 3-4 years there but things didn't work out so I just hopped on the first plane out of there. Now I'm on a yearly contract with the feet up riding in the caboose of the gravy train.

 

[ferball]

I hear ya ferball. Let me tell you a story. I went to school at Israel Premier Tech hoping to become a sparky. I spent 3-4 years there but things didn't work out so I just hopped on the first plane out of there. Now I'm on a yearly contract with the feet up riding in the caboose of the gravy train.

Yep.

Would have made perfect sense. Worked for Boomer all those years.

 

[Only Forwards]

It’s the trading and free agent acquisitions that have been below average. Really poor contracts offered to players that their formers clubs were never going to give.

Brady et al are not good at teh negotiating table.

A lot has been made of the Daniel trade. How we over paid. I have seen it explained on here once as to a guess as to why we overpaid. It talks to the hole we are in.

There was a 4 way trade where Geelong underpaid for Smith and the Dogs were percieverbly short changed. (I would argue hindsight on matt Kennedy being far from under paid but anyway).

Point stands the in a world where trades are wins or losses in the moment the dogs felt they had lost in needing to create a trade that was probably unders.

So then they have a trade where they can somewhat redeem themselves where they are negotiating with a club in a much lessor position who have practically showed their hand. So they play a bit of hardball and we cave. Because for reasons we want our guy.

The point at which this is poor negotiation is We wanted Daniel, the dogs didn't want Daniel, and IIRC Daniel at no point came out and explicitly said he wanted to get to us.

We paid overs because Geelong paid unders and the dogs needed to redeem some trade value.

We are not good at that stuff and we start from a position of disadvantage.

I shudder to think of what may happen now that we can trade 2 years into the future. There is the outside possibility that we really f*** ourselves. Worse that the gives up pick 2-3 for a two picks of 27 + potentially a pick in the 30s.

We are in no position to undersell assets like that. It should mean someone loses their job.

Imagine for a second that we retained pick 2-3 this year and someone straight up offered picks 27 + 30 for it?

This joint Chernobyl itself.

 

[Arthur Cloke]

Brady et al are not good at teh negotiating table.

A lot has been made of the Daniel trade. How we over paid. I have seen it explained on here once as to a guess as to why we overpaid. It talks to the hole we are in.

There was a 4 way trade where Geelong underpaid for Smith and the Dogs were percieverbly short changed. (I would argue hindsight on matt Kennedy being far from under paid but anyway).

Point stands the in a world where trades are wins or losses in the moment the dogs felt they had lost in needing to create a trade that was probably unders.

So then they have a trade where they can somewhat redeem themselves where they are negotiating with a club in a much lessor position who have practically showed their hand. So they play a bit of hardball and we cave. Because for reasons we want our guy.

The point at which this is poor negotiation is We wanted Daniel, the dogs didn't want Daniel, and IIRC Daniel at no point came out and explicitly said he wanted to get to us.

We paid overs because Geelong paid unders and the dogs needed to redeem some trade value.

We are not good at that stuff and we start from a position of disadvantage.

I shudder to think of what may happen now that we can trade 2 years into the future. There is the outside possibility that we really f*** ourselves. Worse that the gives up pick 2-3 for a two picks of 27 + potentially a pick in the 30s.

We are in no position to undersell assets like that. It should mean someone loses their job.

Imagine for a second that we retained pick 2-3 this year and someone straight up offered picks 27 + 30 for it?

This joint Chernobyl itself.

We "Brady'd" the negotiations.

I use that term at home a fair bit nowadays. Like when I was clearing a reverse kanga last week, I got the plunger stuck & I had to call a plumber (aaahhhh, aaaahhhh). I just said to the young lass, "I've Brady'd the blockage" & she immediately knew what I meant as she responded "I see".

 

[speedy]

The title is missing a third option, it’s both.