News & Events Hoons

[strengthwithin]

Show me the study and I will believe you. Seriously, get 4 teenagers in a hotted up car and whats the first thing they say..........How fast does it go?

Sure plenty of accidents happen in mini minors but when you hear about an accident where two cars were dragging, guaranteed it wasn't a mini versus a volkswagon beetle.

Did not know that and good deal. Still should be a national standard though.

I remeber seeing it on the RAC website but I'll try and find it and let you know.

The accident on the weekend with the 5 boys and his sister was an XR6. By your logic that car is still fine to drive as a P Plater but a 1988 5L VL is not allowed because it is a V8 but has less KW and is nowhere near as fast.

It's not the car its the driver, this is what so many people fail to understand.

 

[Tormented Tiger]

There, now was that so hard?

That's not a bad suggestion, even if your primary car will be a automatic, it is good practice and skill training if you ever have to use a manual in an emergency or have to take someone home in their car. Good call.

Only thing wrong is that it's just as much crap as everything else I've written. With a population of only 25,000,000 and such a large country the economics means we need as many people on the road as we can get to keep costs down for the individual. Think of all the jobs that are woven into road use.(new cars, 2nd hand, panel beaters, repairers, road repairs/upgrades, tourism, etc, etc) The government can't afford not to give people licences. What happened last week in Mill Park is going to happen again and again and the media will jump up and down and people will climb on their high horses and nothing will be done apart from a few hoons being made an example of. It's the nature of the beast.

 

[BobbyMorri]

There are so many aspects to driving that focusing on speed and speed alone as a factor is plain silly and doesn't work.

If I was to drive out to the country town of York East of Perth, the speed limit is 110kmh. The roads are single lane and windy and narrow. I generally drive under the limit if I go on those roads.

The freeway is at places 4 lanes wide, pretty straight and in good condition. If I go 130kmh early in the morning as I used to at 5-00 am, it was safe.

When I used to come home at 4-15 in the afternoon with traffic getting busier, it would have been ludicrous to try and drive at 130 as the conditions are so different.

At this time though, I would often be behind people that failed in the 80-100 metre long on ramp get up to 100kmh prior to merging with the traffic that was already on the freeway and travelling at 100kmh. This meant a line of 8 or 9 cars behind that car are forced to merge while going too slowly. This is as dangerous as going a bit too quickly.

Also, people that drive in the right hand lane at lower than the speed limit cause bottle necks and I am sure some do it out of a misguided sense of justice and feel that they have a duty to slow everybody elso down.

As for people expressing any glee that some young people have died, I understand that it is preferable that no innocents died, but lots of people have made mistakes in life and not suffered the ultimate fate. They were young, foolish and died as a result of it. It is sad, not a happy occasion.

Great post. You drive to the conditions. As for the earlier post about kangaroos crossing your path, and u doing 130KM/H, u do one thing. Run over it. U cant do anything. If the person above brakes for the Roo, and you are too close, then you arent driving to the conditions, cause you are tailgating. it not like the driver in front of you is new, he has been in front of you, you should know what he is roughly driving, what you are roughly driving, and you should now what you want to do safety.

 

[Mickey]

Nah, just another symptom of darwinism/natural selection.

I agree. The driver will win the 2010 Darwin award and his 4 dead mates will get honorary mentions...just for hopping in the car with a ******** that was pissed.

 

[TheStinger]

I remeber seeing it on the RAC website but I'll try and find it and let you know.

The accident on the weekend with the 5 boys and his sister was an XR6. By your logic that car is still fine to drive as a P Plater but a 1988 5L VL is not allowed because it is a V8 but has less KW and is nowhere near as fast.

It's not the car its the driver, this is what so many people fail to understand.

They changed the motorbike law from 250cc and under to a power to weight ratio because some of these rice rockets were getting too fast. T#his just means that the government has to have a good hard look at what types of cars would be allowable and which ones aren't.

Absolutely correct though that it is not the car but the nut behind the wheel, but would you rather give the nut an air rifle or an Uzi?

 

[crazyman27]

Just my two cents on the drink-driving issue (I've had my P's for one and a half years and have never received a speeding ticket):

I have driven a car under the influence of alcohol, as I'm sure many p-platers on this forum have, as I live a few minutes from the pub (a fair walk but a short drive) and there have been situations where I have been desperate to get home after having a few drinks and the easiest option is to take the car.

Now the times I have driven under the influence of alcohol I reckon I would've blown about .05 (I always make sure I've sobered up, stopped drinking for an hour or two, drunk plenty of water etc.). This means that when I make the short drive home, the fatigue factor is just as dangerous as the alcohol factor. I also take particular care of my speed (30-40kph the whole way) as I know I'm not as alert as I would normally be.

As you can tell I live in the country (would be able to find a bus or taxi home much easier if I lived in the city) and so there is very rarely another car on the road at 2am so the danger of a two car accident is very minimal.

I'm not stupid enough to drive absolutely trashed and I'm not gonna wrap my car around a tree, but if I get caught DUI I'll lose my license because some idiots make crap decisions.

 

[raskolnikov]

Firstly I couldn't care less about those 6 idiot teenagers that hit the tree on Sunday morning IMO better them than some bystander.

Sorry, I stopped reading there. You're an idiot. Yes, they were doing the wrong thing. Did they deserve to have the rest of their lives taken from them? No. Teenagers are young and stupid. Not to mention the grief it causes for the family and friends left behind. My 19 year old brother was killed in a car accident(nothing illegal involved). I wouldn't wish what my family went through on my worst enemy.

 

[DeadlyAkkuret]

Sorry, I stopped reading there. You're an idiot. Yes, they were doing the wrong thing. Did they deserve to have the rest of their lives taken from them? No. Teenagers are young and stupid. Not to mention the grief it causes for the family and friends left behind. My 19 year old brother was killed in a car accident(nothing illegal involved). I wouldn't wish what my family went through on my worst enemy.

I was surprised no one mentioned this sooner. Terrible way to start a thread

 

[the_fresh]

Sorry, I stopped reading there. You're an idiot. Yes, they were doing the wrong thing. Did they deserve to have the rest of their lives taken from them? No. Teenagers are young and stupid. Not to mention the grief it causes for the family and friends left behind. My 19 year old brother was killed in a car accident(nothing illegal involved). I wouldn't wish what my family went through on my worst enemy.

I'm sorry about your 19yo brother I too have lost a family member in a car crash some 20yo doing 100 in a 60 zone t-boned him running a red light.

A speeding car driven by someone who is drunk is far more dangerous than a loaded gun. It has the power to take out anyone in its path. Those kids going at that speed could have killed any number of bystanders it was only luck that tree stopped them at that tree and not in the bedroom of someone sleeping.
Yes they were kids, but they were dangerous and were stopped. I do feel for their family.

The so-called friends are only using this as a reason to act out at the crash site. Every car parked there should have a parking fine, every person there should be charged with drink in public and every person who gets behind the wheel after a few drinks should get done for drink driving.

IMO the sooner the police crack down on these types of idiots the better, I sound like an arseh*le but I'm fed up with it, everytime I get behind the wheel I'm cut off while doing the speed limit by some di(khead.

 

[the_fresh]

Just my two cents on the drink-driving issue (I've had my P's for one and a half years and have never received a speeding ticket):

I have driven a car under the influence of alcohol, as I'm sure many p-platers on this forum have, as I live a few minutes from the pub (a fair walk but a short drive) and there have been situations where I have been desperate to get home after having a few drinks and the easiest option is to take the car.

Now the times I have driven under the influence of alcohol I reckon I would've blown about .05 (I always make sure I've sobered up, stopped drinking for an hour or two, drunk plenty of water etc.). This means that when I make the short drive home, the fatigue factor is just as dangerous as the alcohol factor. I also take particular care of my speed (30-40kph the whole way) as I know I'm not as alert as I would normally be.

As you can tell I live in the country (would be able to find a bus or taxi home much easier if I lived in the city) and so there is very rarely another car on the road at 2am so the danger of a two car accident is very minimal.

I'm not stupid enough to drive absolutely trashed and I'm not gonna wrap my car around a tree, but if I get caught DUI I'll lose my license because some idiots make crap decisions.

This is what the issue is.
P-Platers think that it won't happen to them, sure most it won't but it could happen at any stage.

 

[Ruddeger07]

Sorry, I stopped reading there. You're an idiot. Yes, they were doing the wrong thing. Did they deserve to have the rest of their lives taken from them?

The OP is right in saying at least they didn't take out any innocent bystanders.

 

[Hard Ball Get]

Just my two cents on the drink-driving issue (I've had my P's for one and a half years and have never received a speeding ticket):

I have driven a car under the influence of alcohol, as I'm sure many p-platers on this forum have, as I live a few minutes from the pub (a fair walk but a short drive) and there have been situations where I have been desperate to get home after having a few drinks and the easiest option is to take the car.

Now the times I have driven under the influence of alcohol I reckon I would've blown about .05 (I always make sure I've sobered up, stopped drinking for an hour or two, drunk plenty of water etc.). This means that when I make the short drive home, the fatigue factor is just as dangerous as the alcohol factor. I also take particular care of my speed (30-40kph the whole way) as I know I'm not as alert as I would normally be.

As you can tell I live in the country (would be able to find a bus or taxi home much easier if I lived in the city) and so there is very rarely another car on the road at 2am so the danger of a two car accident is very minimal.

I'm not stupid enough to drive absolutely trashed and I'm not gonna wrap my car around a tree, but if I get caught DUI I'll lose my license because some idiots make crap decisions.

Which you are one of because you drive under the influence.

 

[raskolnikov]

The OP is right in saying at least they didn't take out any innocent bystanders.

Well of course but it didn't necessitate the "Good riddance to bad rubbish." call.

 

[Chief Ten Beers]

These idiots killed themselves. It's that simple. They're stupid as shit and deserve no sympathy at all. It was their decision to let a drunk driver who was many times over the limit drive this car. It was their decision to do those speeds. It was their decision to crowd the XR6 with too many passengers.

I'm so glad they didn't take out any innocent people with them. That's the main issue as far as I'm concerned.

 

[MF]

These idiots killed themselves. It's that simple. They're stupid as shit and deserve no sympathy at all. It was their decision to let a drunk driver who was many times over the limit drive this car. It was their decision to do those speeds. It was their decision to crowd the XR6 with too many passengers.

I'm so glad they didn't take out any innocent people with them. That's the main issue as far as I'm concerned.

Agreed. If they had gotten away with it they'd be doing the same thing again and again. I prefer them to be 6 foot under than sharing the roads with me or people I care about. I sympathise with their families and loved ones but it's a win for society IMO.

 

[Virgil]

Well of course but it didn't necessitate the "Good riddance to bad rubbish." call.

Wasn't necessary, but it was perfectly justified.

 

[Alpha Male]

In my 4 years on the road I have owned, in order:

A 1987 Holden Camira (4 cyl) - ($500 cash)
A 1990 Lexus LS400 (V8) - (Total of about $8000 inc new rims and tyres)
A 1991 Toyota Soarer (Turbo V6) (current) - (I've lost count how much I've spent on this all up)
A 1996 Mitsubishi Magna (V6) - ($5500 from a dealership)

Which one did I crash? Yep the little Holden with no power.

It wasn't a write off mind you but I did plenty of damage to it and I was lucky not to be hurt, however, I have driven differently in my other cars, not because I'm worried about getting hurt but because I spent so much money on them.

Teenagers are always going to act up. Regardless of how tough the law gets. We young people need to be hit where it hurts. The wallet.

I hang out with alot of kids, through car clubs, who have spent bugger all on their VL's and their Camry's but because they saw The Fast and The Furious and thought it was all cool these kids thrash the hell out of their cars because it's cheap for them so go get another one.

There are also kids in hotted up VK's and VL's who do the right thing. THese cars are like works of art. They have spent lots of money getting the interior fixed, the paint resprayed etc. These aren't your local autobarn jobs.

People tend to lok at flashy cars and think that the drivers are hoons when really, it's too damn expensive to be driving like an idiot.

I think it should go the other way. When a kid turns 18 and gets their P's give them a choice of late model second hand cars. Somewhere around the $15k mark. Then they are responsible for paying it off over the next 7 years. When you are 25 you can go for your life. If you pay it off sooner that's great. If you crash it and it was because of your own stupidity then too bad. You're stuck with the debt.

As it is now too many kids can buy 2/3/4 cars (like I did) and instead of fixing them up, just write them off one ofter the other not having to worry because you can get another one for 6 weeks pay!

 

[strengthwithin]

Show me the study and I will believe you. Seriously, get 4 teenagers in a hotted up car and whats the first thing they say..........How fast does it go?

I've found the article from The Office of Road Safety in WA.

Conclusion and recommendations
This is the first matched case-control investigation of the relationship between vehicle PWR and the risk of serious crash involvement for young novice drivers. Based on the analysis of 84 case-control pairs and the vehicle information for a larger sample of serious injury crashes, there is no evidence to suggest that the risk of a young novice driver being involved in a serious injury crash in the first two
years of licensing is influenced by the PWR of the vehicle they drive or that the serious injury crashes of this group are characterised by ‘high’ vehicle power to weight ratios.

http://www.officeofroadsafety.wa.gov.au/documents/PalamaraandGavinPowertoweightratio.pdf

Once again it's not the car it's the driver!

 

[External Inputs]

I've found the article from The Office of Road Safety in WA.



http://www.officeofroadsafety.wa.gov.au/documents/PalamaraandGavinPowertoweightratio.pdf

Once again it's not the car it's the driver!

I remember Grant Dorrington spouting some "statistics" about how people who'd done advanced driving courses were no less likely to be involved in an accident, inferring they were a waste of time. That must be the only field of human endeavor where more training results in no improvement.

There's many ways of compiling statistics, you can get the answer you want in a lot of cases and some of those to do with road safety seem to beggar belief.

It's always the driver, but if you're saying a powerful car in the hands of an inexperienced driver presents no greater risk, I'm sure you wouldn't find an insurance company who'd agree with you.


.

 

[strengthwithin]

I remember Grant Dorrington spouting some "statistics" about how people who'd done advanced driving courses were no less likely to be involved in an accident, inferring they were a waste of time. That must be the only field of human endeavor where more training results in no improvement.

There's many ways of compiling statistics, you can get the answer you want in a lot of cases and some of those to do with road safety seem to beggar belief.

It's always the driver, but if you're saying a powerful car in the hands of an inexperienced driver presents no greater risk, I'm sure you wouldn't find an insurance company who'd agree with you.


.

Wouldn't use this as a point of reference either considering an insurance company will use any means to charge you as much as possible, no matter how ridiculous something is. Eg. they charge you more on your insurance if you put a $400 head unit in your car that plays MP3. Seriously they put this under car modifications!! It should be irrelevant what stereo is in your car unless you want to pay extra to insure your stereo.

Do you punish everyone for a few peoples mistakes? People over 25 crash everyday but it only becomes newsworthy if the driver is a young kid. The media gets a thrill when a P Plater is in fatal accident it seems, it's even more entertaining if it's in a high powered car. Notice when a person aged over 25 dies in a high powered car it gets more of a mention in the media.

Don't get me wrong I wouldn't want my P Plater child to be driving a high powered vehicle but to blame this as the sole reason for P Plate fatalities is just ignorant.

 

[External Inputs]

Wouldn't use this as a point of reference either considering an insurance company will use any means to charge you as much as possible, no matter how ridiculous something is. Eg. they charge you more on your insurance if you put a $400 head unit in your car that plays MP3. Seriously they put this under car modifications!! It should be irrelevant what stereo is in your car unless you want to pay extra to insure your stereo.

Do you punish everyone for a few peoples mistakes? People over 25 crash everyday but it only becomes newsworthy if the driver is a young kid. The media gets a thrill when a P Plater is in fatal accident it seems, it's even more entertaining if it's in a high powered car. Notice when a person aged over 25 dies in a high powered car it gets more of a mention in the media.

Don't get me wrong I wouldn't want my P Plater child to be driving a high powered vehicle but to blame this as the sole reason for P Plate fatalities is just ignorant.

They charge you more for any legal upgrade if you want it covered, you can't pay a base model premium and expect it'll cover extras as well. Don't tell them if it's such an issue, but don't cry when you lose out.

I never said it was the sole reason at all, just that it was a greater risk, and since risk evaluation is what insurance is about, they'd be a reasonable guide.

.

 

[strengthwithin]

They charge you more for any legal upgrade if you want it covered, you can't pay a base model premium and expect it'll cover extras as well. Don't tell them if it's such an issue, but don't cry when you lose out.

I never said it was the sole reason at all, just that it was a greater risk, and since risk evaluation is what insurance is about, they'd be a reasonable guide.

.

I am 22 and have a VS Clubsport. I was refused insurance by 5 companies because I have an exhaust and it's lowered (my 2 modifications). My car is roughly 195kw with the exhaust. That is less that a Toyota Aurion V6 which is roughly 200kw. I've never been in an accident, haven't lost a point for over 3 years (lost 1 when i was 18) and have now had my license for 5 years. Comprehensive insurance for my car was $1300 and the whole car cost me $8000. Insurance on the Aurion is roughly $1300 and that car costs in excess of $35000.

I actually can't afford comprehensive insurance on my car because I am deemed a risk til I'm 25 (Besides why would I pay insurance on a car for almost a quarter of its worth). Well maybe I should buy a crap car and not care how i treat it? This double standard annoys me. It's not done on an individual basis but per demographic. I know it would be hard to single people out but what else do I have to do to show them I am a safe driver. How am I more of a risk in a VS Clubsport than an Aurion if the Aurion is a faster car?

 

[hamG]

How am I more of a risk in a VS Clubsport than an Aurion if the Aurion is a faster car?

Well because people who drive a brand new Aurion probably are not deemed as an insurance risk such as yourself with your what, 15 year old HSV? Perhaps you would be better comparing your car to a Supra, one of which you would have equally little luck in getting insurance for an old car built for performance.

 

[Pie eyed]

I am 22 and have a VS Clubsport. I was refused insurance by 5 companies because I have an exhaust and it's lowered (my 2 modifications). My car is roughly 195kw with the exhaust. That is less that a Toyota Aurion V6 which is roughly 200kw. I've never been in an accident, haven't lost a point for over 3 years (lost 1 when i was 18) and have now had my license for 5 years. Comprehensive insurance for my car was $1300 and the whole car cost me $8000. Insurance on the Aurion is roughly $1300 and that car costs in excess of $35000.

I actually can't afford comprehensive insurance on my car because I am deemed a risk til I'm 25 (Besides why would I pay insurance on a car for almost a quarter of its worth). Well maybe I should buy a crap car and not care how i treat it? This double standard annoys me. It's not done on an individual basis but per demographic. I know it would be hard to single people out but what else do I have to do to show them I am a safe driver. How am I more of a risk in a VS Clubsport than an Aurion if the Aurion is a faster car?

To be honest it is unfair and you may be a very reasonable risk as an indivudual, but you can blame the numerous under 25 yo males in powerful cars who have crashed their cars before you.
Insurance companies are in business for profit not risk.

 

[The Cranium]

25 Year Olds and under....

Pretty sure the clowns that hit the tree were all under 25....

Until the culture changes that people under 25 believe they have a right of passage from schoolies to having fun until the penny drops about being responsible for your own actions, these laws / regulations will never change.

A good example of a differing culture garnered on respect for laws - Germany, you can buy beer from a pub on a school night 17 year olds IIRC, you must leave the pub by 11PM. They don't get pissed, they have a few, chat, play pool etc etc.... This law would never be introduced in Australia due to our continual acceptance of drinking copious amounts of piss....