Strong first post brah
Hostage Situation - Martin Place, Sydney
- Thread starter NotAMagpieBogan
- Start date
- Tagged users None
Why are they only targeting women with this? Gutless bullying pricksFYI to those questioning #illridewithyou and it maybe being a bit unnecessary.
- Mar 6, 2014
- 41,562
- 39,805
- AFL Club
- Geelong
Because they are gutless, bullying pricks.
They're not targeting anyone really. These types talk a lot and do little.
You're correct. It is a neologism coined by a famous Ballarat based philosopher slash cult leader.
Doesn't anyone have a recording of the RT live feed from before, during, and after the police raid?
Reading through this thread, the media aren't reporting everything - a video on Live Leaks says that it was a total of 15 minutes after the big group escaped at night that the last hostage escaped, and then a minute after that the police went in (and at the same time another hostage escaped from the fire escape).
If that's the case, I can only assume he was still asleep when the big group escaped, and at some stage woke up at which point Teri jumped him.
There was a hostage who escaped (the female one who ran a massive loop) after the big group that no-one is reporting on or mentioning. I can't help but think he eventually woke up and upon realisation of the escapes finally snapped, and the media aren't reporting it to avoid any guilt being placed on the hostages who escaped.
Reading through this thread, the media aren't reporting everything - a video on Live Leaks says that it was a total of 15 minutes after the big group escaped at night that the last hostage escaped, and then a minute after that the police went in (and at the same time another hostage escaped from the fire escape).
If that's the case, I can only assume he was still asleep when the big group escaped, and at some stage woke up at which point Teri jumped him.
There was a hostage who escaped (the female one who ran a massive loop) after the big group that no-one is reporting on or mentioning. I can't help but think he eventually woke up and upon realisation of the escapes finally snapped, and the media aren't reporting it to avoid any guilt being placed on the hostages who escaped.
Small Moves
Premiership Player
Overseas media reporting that TAG East were in fact involved in the entry. NSWPOL had come out and said they weren't required, however I was informed by an inside source beforehand that TAG East would be involved.
Interested to see what is made of this in the coming days.
Interested to see what is made of this in the coming days.
- Mar 25, 2003
- 35,681
- 28,334
There is a few minutes between the big group of escapees and "the end" (so to speak).
It might have been 6 or 7 minutes, but I don't think it was 15, but I'm not really sure the time length is really of any relevance.
There was only a matter of seconds between the first gun shot and cops going in.
The prevailing theory seems to be that after the main escape he started getting agitated and then s**t really took off. I think that's pretty well accepted.
And it would seem the most likely reason people escaped was because he started to fall asleep.
I don't think it's confirmed but there are many reasons why there was a delay after the main group escaped and it all started going off. Some where probably closer to an exit, those that didn't leave where probably scared about waking him up (You're gotta be thinking if he wakes in the three seconds it takes me to reach the door then I'm a gonna), and then also a combination of the two. There could be other factors at play. He has most likely been asleep through the whole big escape and woken to only see half a dozen hostages left.
I don't think any guilt should be placed on those who escaped. After that ordeal, you see the guy falling asleep, there is a definite instinct to flea.
- Mar 17, 2009
- 3,329
- 2,532
- AFL Club
- Essendon
FYI to those questioning #illridewithyou and it maybe being a bit unnecessary.
The 'Strayan Defence League?
versus
How do these numbers crunch?
How many Tactical Assault Groups are there? East, West, North and South?
Er, no. It's a serious issue, but a different issue.
2. West and east.
Cheers Reep
Is this like 2pac and Biggie?
2 West and Easy East? And I thought Commandos would be into metalcore and s**t...
Small Moves
Premiership Player
Two - TAG East and West.
East is based in Sydney and consists of soldiers from the 2nd Commando Regiment.
West is based out at Swanbourne in WA and consists of members from the SASR.
Both have world class training facilities and resources - I think some people would be surprised to know that we're one of the most advanced countries in the world when it comes to counterterrorism.
So I've done the maths, and despite most reports claiming there were 17 hostages, there were actually 18 - for some reason noone is mentioning the first Lindt male employee to escape. Have realised that the 7th escapee of the night (who ran the loop) was the one I thought came out of the fire escape during the battle - she actually was hiding behind police as they entered and once safe ran away with an officer. It was apparently a minute between her escape and police entering - I think it was within this timeframe that Tori was murdered.
An article has come up saying Joel (a hostage who escaped as a group) called Tori as soon as he escaped, expecting Tori to have escape as well. If this is true, it means Tori stopped the gunman then and there (who probably woke up when the escape group broke the lock to storm free). I think the gunman didn't kill anyone at that point though, but then 5-15 minutes later the 7th escapee made a run, at which point Tori got in a struggle with the gunman.
Visions
Brownlow Medallist
- Oct 2, 2007
- 11,844
- 14,984
- AFL Club
- Collingwood
- Other Teams
- Liverpool FC, HNS Vatreni
Going by the process of elimination that seems to be Fiona Ma. She escaped just before the police stormed the cafe (you can see her being led away at the back as they enter the building firing).
Going by the timeline (look at the times in this thread), the mass escape of 6 people happened about 2.04am. Five ran down past the two cops standing on the corner, one of them (the guy in white shirt) went totally the other opposite direction across the mall down Philip St where he lay on the ground in front of the two cops there (a lot of people thought he escaped separately but was in fact part of the mass breakout).
2.12am - Fiona escapes. 2.14am - Shots fired and police enter building.
Whether he was asleep and woke up and snapped, really the only people who might be able to shed light are the 3 survivors who were in there at the end just before the police stormed in. They would be Marcia, Selina and the other 75 year old who hasn't been named yet.
Nevertheless who can blame any of the hostages for taking their chance when they did.
Visions
Brownlow Medallist
- Oct 2, 2007
- 11,844
- 14,984
- AFL Club
- Collingwood
- Other Teams
- Liverpool FC, HNS Vatreni
How? I get 17.
First escapees (3)- John, Stefan, Paulo (Lindt employee you mentioned)
Second Escape (2) - Elly, Bae
Third Escape (6) - Jarrod, Harriette, Viswakanth, Puspendu, Joel, Julie (the one that Katrina was said to have protected while dying. This would mean that Katrina was shot by this stage but there are no mentions of shots being fired)
Fourth escape (1) - Fiona
Still inside (5) - Tori, Katrina, Marcia, Selina, unnamed woman (the 4th hostage youtube video one)
Small Moves
Premiership Player
Could explain the one or two 'bangs' heard well before the final minutes of the siege.
(not the ones towards the end)
Just to address this as i feel its required, i'm not attacking you.
BUT.........TV is utter bullshit.
despite all the crap about double taps and what not, it just never happens.
the large number of shots are suppressing fire.
this, despite what it looks like is actually a fair advanced tactic when used this way.
the first barrage of shots took down the glass doors, allowing entry while preventing the target from being able to shoot them on entry.
once inside they continue to shoot ahead of them on full auto again preventing the target from aiming at them.
at the same time flash grenades are going off behind them which again prevents the target from being able to aim and shoot, he might be able to blind fire but thats about it.
which is why they stay in close formation and try to fire as a unit because a person's natural reaction is to shoot at the centre of all this carnage (shield guy)and while all this is going on with the flash grenades the barrage of shots the incoming fire, possibly second teams shooting and stun grenades that they are walking towards.
They are not only need to stay in formation move at a specific speed so they they stay coordinated with secondary teams and don't end up shoot each other they also are on alert to identify target from hostage and do all this quick enough that they can take the target at out with as minimal casualties as possible.
this idea that hollywood has produced with their stylised shoot outs gives people a false sense of reality. short of a spec ops planned surgical strike (which takes longer than 17 hours) you don't get much more professional than that.
it isn't pretty it's not meant to be, hell look at the most famous spec op's raid in history the iranian embassy. took 17 minutes over a 800 rounds fired by the SAS, the breach got stuffed with the point man getting tangled in the rope, they had to kick in the window in. one hostage died and one of the sas commandos was severely burnt.
it's not the movies there's no silent ninja insertion and a whisper quiet shot to the head that nobody notices. it just doesn't happen.
hell look at the specialist raids in afghanistan primary entry, they use a combat shotgun to rip straight through the shitty doors at the same time throw in as many as 5-6 flashbags in any opening from windows to doors to cracks in the walls and enter the moment they go off anyone thats moving gets literally a kick in the guts be them men women or children and this is for intel gathering when no one knows their coming.
If your armed and they think your expecting you, they will more or less breach the same way....... and if you don't have hostages you better hope you have some top class intel, because if you don't and they for a second don't think they can you alive. the SAS wont go in, they'll use other assets.
namely a 25MM chaingun mounted on an alsav.
thats our top notch Tier one operators the best in the world, primary choice when there's no hostages to worry about.
if you take the best known recuse where a spec ops team used sniping, that maersk highjacking.
that sniper team had 3 days to prepare had clear line of sight and nothing between them and the target.
so lets say they went all sniping, first off single shot won't work there's no accurate way to shot through glass even taking a .50 cal. the moment it hits the glass the trajectory is deflected you simply cannot tell where the bullet will go.
hence you need 2 snipers and a spotter. the spotter gives them the go because the snipers have every limited view through their scope.
first sniper takes out the window the second does the kill shot both shots have to be within less then a second of each other.
a building with small, thick windows a guy moving around. its a tough strike for anyone, even the best. and just remember this wasn't their call the scumbag shot a hostage and as a result they breached. they couldn't wait for a sniper team to get to do a precision hit. he was shooting they needed to act.
cops aren't executioners, they would have happily waited 3-4 days if required, they went in because the situation broke down.
the only time you will EVER see a double tap (which in real life is a at least 3 though often its 6, two in the head two in each lung prevents any possibility of resuscitation) is if its a straight up execution, the team plans knows everything and strikes when the target least expects it, the targets often unarmed and many times sound asleep when they move in.
Visions
Brownlow Medallist
- Oct 2, 2007
- 11,844
- 14,984
- AFL Club
- Collingwood
- Other Teams
- Liverpool FC, HNS Vatreni
Interesting. Would mean that police didn't storm the building after the first shots were fired as originally reported.
- Oct 7, 2009
- 18,958
- 30,158
- AFL Club
- Collingwood
- Other Teams
- Dallas Cowboys Chicago Bulls
So Joel Herats father has said that Monis wasn't falling asleep, he was wide awake and herded them into groups of 6.
Herats group decided to make a run for it as they felt he was becoming extremely agitated.
The group of 6 fled and Thompson was killed shortly after..
Herats group decided to make a run for it as they felt he was becoming extremely agitated.
The group of 6 fled and Thompson was killed shortly after..
