Mega Thread Hot Topic - Drugs and AFL

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The government isn't going to shut out the AFL long term, let's remember they don't give the AFL money out of the goodness of their hearts, it's for votes. Those voters aren't going to disappear and you can bet one of the major parties in close seat(s) would quickly be back giving / offering money to get wins.

Bad PR in the short term is more manageable for the AFL, IMO, then risking losing TV rights and other monies from other than the government in the short / medium term.
Why would the goverment give the AFL $$$ for community programs when they get bagged for giving it to them, when they could give it to WADA compliant sports to do the community program? You dont reckon NRL, A-League, ARU, cricket, netball, basketball clubs will ask the feds for funding to run those programs in place of the AFL?

Look at the uproar that Athletics Ausralia was considering appointing someone who was in Charlie Francis'/Ben Johnson's training group as national athletics coach recently.

The AFL are full of spin merchants and PR consultants. They will not be prepared to accept the fall out from not being WADA compliant.

The 4 big US sports are the only major sports that have told WADA to get nicked. The yanks being the only global super power tell the rest or the world to get stuffed. They only use the UN when they get some benefit and ignore it when they dont. Soccer and Euro basketball dont tell WADA to get stuffed. We arent as big and as great as we think.
 

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MrMeaner

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Work safe Victoria should feel fairly ashamed that an individual needs to take such a well publisised case to Court.

Or does an AFL imposed fine excuse them of any responsibility?
I understand it is still investigating. It might also be waiting for the outcome of the tribunal.

To be fair, the issues are slightly different in this, the tribunal case and any potential WorkSafe prosecution.
 
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I understand it is still investigating. It might also be waiting for the outcome of the tribunal.

To be fair, the issues are slightly different in this, the tribunal case and any potential WorkSafe prosecution.
Yeah, they're still investigating as far as I know. You'd think they'd be surely waiting for the outcome of the tribunal otherwise their investigation is proceeding embarrassingly slow. Most of what happened that would be relevant to WorkSafe is already in the public domain.
 

Andre

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J-Mac was too much drink on a post season trip and a tragic case of that leading to being in the wrong place. That (the drink) is nothing of note for a post-season trip, outside of the end result in this case. It has no place being an article on some clubs having a culture of accepting drug abuse (and even at our nadir there were never the faintest whiffs of smoke along these lines, and these things always generate smoke if not fire). Otherwise a good article.

But then it's strongly suspected that a certain high flying forward who recently moved clubs had a 3rd strike conviction buried as he's a poster boy for AFL marketing. If there was a buck in it, the AFL hierarchy would sell their grandmothers to cannibals.
 

philreich

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Just received this e-mail from a mate - make of it what you will:

Ross Stevenson said on this mornings Rumour File on 3AW that next weeks verdict for the 34 Bombers players will be "insufficient evidence" - i.e. Essendon will be able to field a full strength side in Round 1.

There has been plenty of rumours but am hoping this one is spot on.
 

Honeyboy Wilson

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Just received this e-mail from a mate - make of it what you will:

Ross Stevenson said on this mornings Rumour File on 3AW that next weeks verdict for the 34 Bombers players will be "insufficient evidence" - i.e. Essendon will be able to field a full strength side in Round 1.

There has been plenty of rumours but am hoping this one is spot on.
I'll make of it that no one knows, and people are going to start rumours. There are only a few outcomes from this case, and that's one of them, so it's easy to start a rumour about.
 
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It's extremely unlikely there'll be a leak from the tribunal judges. Like lotto jackpot odds of a leak. These are retired county court judges and a senior barrister. We won't know a thing until Tuesday.
Very true.I have a feeling a select few already know where it is going from a few snippets of info being spoken.
 

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blaargh

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It's bizarre - as much as I know that we are the club most affected by this outcome, I still hope that the essendon players receive some sort of conviction and ban.

My personal ideal outcome would be a 6 month, backdated ban that results in a month of real time suspensions.

There will be such an unbelievable shit storm of whingers if there is no conviction and the whole process has been pointless. Bottom line is - players must be protected from uncontrolled, unsupervised and dubious work place expectations.
 

Wargreymon90

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The standard of will be 'beyond reasonable doubt' and we still don't know for sure what they have been given? Or do we?

If the evidence is insufficient, then the players will receive no ban at all
 
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The standard of will be 'beyond reasonable doubt' and we still don't know for sure what they have been given? Or do we?

If the evidence is insufficient, then the players will receive no ban at all
Read this thread - use the search function the level of proof is comfortable satisfaction which is lower than reasonable doubt but more than balance of probabilities.

It also sounds like you have not read the WADA Code and/or the AFL Anti Doping Code.
 

Wargreymon90

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Read this thread - use the search function the level of proof is comfortable satisfaction which is lower than reasonable doubt but more than balance of probabilities.

It also sounds like you have not read the WADA Code and/or the AFL Anti Doping Code.
you are correct

But considering the stigma of being labelled a drug cheat and the fact that it impacts significantly on their career. I would have thought that SOP would be 'beyond reasonable doubt'. perhaps im wrong
 
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you are correct

But considering the stigma of being labelled a drug cheat and the fact that it impacts significantly on their career. I would have thought that SOP would be 'beyond reasonable doubt'. perhaps im wrong
Its got othing to do with the stigma but whats in the code. And the use of common sense.
 

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you dont think its common sense that if you wish to say someone is a drug cheat that you would want there to be no doubt that the substance they took was illegal?
Read this thread in full I have explained my position in this case and drugs in sport plenty of times. I have a very different starting point than ypu and most. Murders and Rapists get away with using beyond reasonable doubt to their fullest advantage. This about someone kicking a dead piece of animal around a field..

How come no player has had the guts to come out and demand that Dank, Charters and Alvi come and testify before the tribunal??? Its not a court of law so if they lie they wont go to jail or get a fine. The players silence says a fair bit.
 
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Common sense would say that this whole saga should have finished ages ago.
Correct but lawyers, the massive amount of process built into PED investigations and the fact the key suppliers of drugs - chemical assistance for the squimish - refuse to testify and more importantly the AFL trying to manage the PR spin is why this has gone on for 2 years.
 

Wargreymon90

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Read this thread in full I have explained my position in this case and drugs in sport plenty of times. I have a very different starting point than ypu and most. Murders and Rapists get away with using beyond reasonable doubt to their fullest advantage. This about someone kicking a dead piece of animal around a field..

How come no player has had the guts to come out and demand that Dank, Charters and Alvi come and testify before the tribunal??? Its not a court of law so if they lie they wont go to jail or get a fine. The players silence says a fair bit.
136 pages. Aint got time for that :p

I see what you are saying that sportsman shouldn't be subject to the some SOP as criminals. But players silence can not be used as evidence against them. Im have no idea what evidence ASADA has presented, but if there is insufficient proof that the alleged substances were injected into the players, what exactly are they being punished for?

Im not taking sides here. Im generally interested as I have no idea about this area of law
 
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136 pages. Aint got time for that :p

I see what you are saying that sportsman shouldn't be subject to the some SOP as criminals. But players silence can not be used as evidence against them. Im have no idea what evidence ASADA has presented, but if there is insufficient proof that the alleged substances were injected into the players, what exactly are they being punished for?

Im not taking sides here. Im generally interested as I have no idea about this area of law
circumstancial evidence has both correctly and incorrectly put people behind bars. Its a legitimate tool to prosecute someone with. The evidence you want is what you get in a positive drug test. We dont have that so that's why we had this investigation that started off with evidence gathered by the Australian Crime Commission who has coercive powers to collect evidence but doesnt do the prosecuting.
 
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