Mega Thread Hot Topic - Drugs and AFL

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bomberclifford said:
I delete emails and sms messages all the time. It's not necessarily evidence of any wrong doing.

There was an independent investigation that made a recommended to GWS that there was nothing to be concerned about.
As 'dodgy' as the story about Whitfield trying to avoid an obsessive girlfriend sounds, it's still a plausible explanation.
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Carn. It's not as if it was junk mail being deleted. It was specific and it's damning that it was deleted.
 

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FallingLiefs said:
I'm not sure he loses it....

I really want Sam Mitchell to be a Brownlow medalist, on the other side I really don't want Cotchin to be a Brownlow medalist.

Tough call.
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I think the Brownlow is a farce especially with someone as vanilla as cotchin getting it. He should lose it on principle alone seeing as he was found guilty and all. It just sounds like another thing gillon is washing his hands with, lack of back bone from him as usual. I doubt he will just give it up.
 
I hate Trent Cotchin as much as the next person but you have to admit he was awesome in 2012. All the talk was back then that he was overtaking Gaz as the best in the game.

That's almost makes his and Richmond's shitful next 4 season (and probably decade if we look ahead) all the more sweet.
 
Caro reckons over next 10 days something will happen and the 2 officials and Whitfield will be charged and emphasising that the Gubby Allan and Craig Lambert will get hit hard. It will go up before the AFL Anti Doping Panel/Tribunal.
 
not surprised one bit the AFL have been trying to make this go away from the get go. I have no faith in the afl anti doping code what so ever
 
elsler said:
not surprised one bit the AFL have been trying to make this go away from the get go. I have no faith in the afl anti doping code what so ever
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They tried that with Essendon and look where it got them. Whitfield, Allan and Lambert are totally doomed here.
 
Ben Barba just got twelve weeks for a casual snort of gear after the NRL Grand Final and has been 'released from his contract' by Cronulla and suspended for 12 weeks by the NRL. Ben Barba is a Ben Cousins like character, a talented sportsman who isn't savvy enough to stay out of trouble. This is his second positive test for illicit substances.

Unlike the AFL, the NRL did not * about, Barba tested positive after the NRL Grand Final and five weeks later he is outed, if it had been the AFL we would be waiting until mid 2017 until they announced when they will announce a penalty. It seems to take the AFL an eternity to make their ******* minds up about anything. Given the speed with which the NRL acted on Barba it is mind boggling that an infringement by an AFL player in 2015 results in a see saw circus between the AFL and ASADA with neither able to make their minds up under which code Whitfield would be cited.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...-lachie-whitfield-affair-20160905-gr99oj.html

The AFL really are a joke and it would not surprise me if the book is thrown at Allan and Lambert while Whitfield gets a rap over the knuckles with a wet sock as part of some flak deflection exercise. While in the meantime Watson is allowed to keep his Brownlow.

For *'s sake grow some balls Gillion and Mike. It is your problem deal with it !
 
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Sounds like you're just gurgling hot air for the sake of the usual 'Gil the dill' narrative.

Testing and accepting a positive reading is like shooting a fish in a barrel for the administration. Arguing over subjectivity regarding the reasons behind missing a test is not something that can just be resolved within a month given the legal implications on both side.

My advice is to just shut up and wait for the verdict. Why you are so invested in this has got me beat.
 
Hellgood said:
Sounds like you're just gurgling hot air for the sake of the usual 'Gil the dill' narrative.

Testing and accepting a positive reading is like shooting a fish in a barrel for the administration. Arguing over subjectivity regarding the reasons behind missing a test is not something that can just be resolved within a month given the legal implications on both side.

My advice is to just shut up and wait for the verdict. Why you are so invested in this has got me beat.
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Here is another quote for you, not that I assume you bothered to read the last one.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...s/news-story/beaac65be438f22459cbbd5eb32b3dd9

Robinson wrote that in September and we are still waiting. Perhaps you should ask yourself why the AFL has to await legal opinion every time it wants to act against individuals who break a Drugs Code they all agree to ? Whitfield missed an obligatory test no excuse. Dealing with Allan and Lambert could and should be a separate matter. I am not saying throw the book at Whitfield I, and most other people are simply saying deal with it.

PS Spare me the advice as I you mistake me for someone who cares. In any case why pick on me...

MadFan23 said:
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powermacs said:
Gil is an absolute joke. Mitchell's manager just said the AFL asked him to present a case as to why he should be awarded the Brownlow. They seriously can not make a decision on anything.
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SEVEN clubs have been fined for breaches of rules relating to player whereabouts information under the AFL Anti-Doping Code.
Hawthorn was sanctioned $7500 for three breaches, West Coast and Geelong $5000 each for two breaches and Collingwood, Essendon, the Western Bulldogs and St Kilda $2500 for one breach apiece.
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http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-11-09/seven-clubs-fined-for-antidoping-code-breach

You'd think Essendon would be particularly diligent in avoiding any anti-doping issues. And Hawthorn are particularly unlucky or need better administrative practices.

Although the AFL found the failures were due to administrative errors rather than an intentional breach, the AFL's general counsel Andrew Dillon said all clubs needed to be diligent in meeting their paperwork requirements.
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OneGreatClub said:
He will state he believes he 100% deserves to keep it as he is innocent HOWEVER for the team good and to avoid further distraction he will do the brave :rolleyes: and honourable thing and recind it, amiright? ;)
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yup. and we'll never know how much of that statement is him, club, dad, manager, AFL or sponsors.

all of his possible personal motivations aside I prefer to see him surrender it rather than have it ripped off him unwillingly, and so would Essendon, thinking as ever only of themselves. some of the grating I'm sure comes from seeing a "jobewashing" outcome mixed with ambiguous signals on responsibility.
 
USADA boss Travis Tagart is in Oz for an anti-doping intel transfer with ASADA . He was on Lateline on Friday night. Did a bit of tough talking but also backed plenty of the existing system. You can watch the interview and/or read the full transcript at link below.

He gets introduced as the bloke who caught Lance and they show an interview Lance recently gave but Armstrong starts off with his usual BS. He still has plenty of the $150m he earned from cycling.

http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2016/s4573972.htm
....
Armstrong spoke about the scandal earlier this year:

LANCE ARMSTRONG (March): It's been a rough couple of years for a lot of reasons, whether it's... whether it's from our family's perspective, whether it's from my own personal perspective or whether it's a financial or a legal perspective. That's what I mean: it has just been a complete, colossal meltdown.

MATT WORDSWORTH: Travis Tygart, welcome to Australia. Welcome to the program. Firstly, Lance Armstrong. He said earlier this year that his entire life, whether it be financial, personal, legal, has been a "complete, colossal meltdown". Do you have any sympathy for him?

TRAVIS TYGART, USADA: Oh, well, of course. I mean, we hope the best for him, quite honestly. I mean, his sanction is in place. Our case is over. We did our best to expose what was going on in the sport of cycling and tried to change that culture that was corrupt at the time. And to some extent he was a rider just like everyone else and participated in some of the same doping that others did. So, of course we want the best for him. And hopefully he gets to a point where he can be a positive contributor to society again.

MATT WORDSWORTH: He still has some criticism of USADA. Even now he says it's inefficient; that it's not catching enough and that you needed a story and you were going after a big whale, but you haven't cleared the pool. Is that fair?
TRAVIS TYGART: Listen, there are some easy, convenient sound bites that athletes who have been caught will say to try to justify why they were caught or other reasons behind it. But at the end of the day our job is to fairly approach each and every case in a principled fashion to ensure that those that abide by the rules, who are victims to others who rob them when others dope: that their rights are protected. And we do that whether it's a global icon like a Lance Armstrong or a Marion Jones, or a weekend warrior that happens to fall under our jurisdiction. And that's incumbent upon us to be just as fair in that process as we expect athletes to be when they compete.....
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http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2016/s4573972.htm

about taking anti-doping authority away from sports and giving more power to the NADAs.

MATT WORDSWORTH: There is a push to change the system: to take the drug testing authority more from the sporting bodies, the international sporting bodies, and more towards your USADAs and your ASADAs and your WADAs. Can you explain what that change means?

TRAVIS TYGART: Yes. I'll tell you. We had a couple of weeks ago in Bonn, Germany 16 to 20 NADAs (national anti-doping agencies) come together: anti-doping leaders from around the world. And we said, "You can't have the fox guarding the hen house." If you think about it, sport is really good at promoting themselves and what you see on TV is wonderful and fans in the seats is fantastic. But they can't police themselves. It is contrary to their interests in promoting. So our position is: you have to remove sport from policing itself to ensure fairness; and that the promotion, the profit side of the sport doesn't get in the way of the policing side of it.

MATT WORDSWORTH: So would you also apply that to the NFL, the NBA and our own football codes?
TRAVIS TYGART: Absolutely. Listen...
MATT WORDSWORTH: They shouldn't be running their own drug-testing programs?

TRAVIS TYGART: Listen: having had to have made difficult decisions when global icons - Marion Johns, Lance Armstrong - cheat: it is a tough, tough decision. You hate it, because you know you will crush some people's dreams. It's their decision to cheat that requires us to hold them accountable, but if we had the president of UCI (Union Cycliste Internationale), for example - the international cycling president - on our board, I don't think the same outcome would have happened. So you have to remove any interests to stop those who are there to do the job to enforce the rules fairly against any and all athletes, whether high-profile or not.
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and he discusses the TUE issues, Wiggins etc although he plays a straight bat about it being health and privacy issues

MATT WORDSWORTH: I want to move on to a slightly more grey area at the moment: therapeutic use exemptions (TUE).This is where an athlete gets an exemption to use a banned substance because it is treating an honest medical condition. But do you think they're being abused?

TRAVIS TYGART: Listen, I think the rules have been discussed and they are in place and it strikes an extremely fair balance between the need of some athletes - a very small number of athletes - to obtain medical permission to use a substance, a medication that they need. So, for acne, for birth control, for asthma: I mean, how are we possibility going to deny someone the ability to use that? As long as it doesn't increase their performance or give them a performance advantage - and it's legitimate. And I think when the rules are followed, they're robust and it strikes an absolutely fair balance in that regard.

MATT WORDSWORTH: Just in recent weeks, through hacking of organisations like yourself, we've seen the TUE records of very high-profile athletes: our own Emily Seebohm; Sir Bradley Wiggins being probably the most high-profile. He used a product called triamcinolone acetonide. What would that possibly do to enhance your performance?

TRAVIS TYGART: Well, it is for a medical purpose. I mean, let me be crystal-clear: the Russians have illegally hacked through this affiliated group with Russia, The Fancy Bears, and put out on the internet both Australian athletes, US athletes, German athletes, athletes from around the world, who did everything right. They followed the rules that were in place. They disclosed - think about it - their medical records to the anti-doping authority. It's essentially the police - and they've done absolutely nothing wrong.

MATT WORDSWORTH: So to be fair to Sir Bradley Wiggins: he says he has suffered from allergies for a long time and this treatment treats his allergies. But some also say it's a performance-enhancing product and it was taken in each time a matter of three, four days before the Tour de France and 12 days before the Giro d'Italia. And he never told anybody at the time. Do you think, at least, these things should be made public so that everyone is aware?

TRAVIS TYGART: Listen, I think it's unfair to athletes to make their medical situations public. I think they do disclose it, as I just said, to the police.

MATT WORDSWORTH: But in a 2015 report into doping by the Cycling Independent Reform Commission, one rider is quoted as saying that he believed or they believed 90 per cent of TUEs were used for performance-enhancing purposes. That must be chilling testimony for you?

TRAVIS TYGART: Well, listen, I know that's not the case in the US. I mean, I don't see UCIs. And the case you cited was: UCI used to grant its own permissions. Now, the rules as of first of the year of 2015: those have to be done by independent panels and reviewed by the global regulator, the World Anti-Doping Agency. So I think that's in the past. And if you think about it, you would have to be a fool to run the risk of disclosing to the cops that you are trying to commit a crime, when they can prosecute you based on the information that you are bringing to their attention. So I think it's been way blown out of proportion. I think, you know, it was intentionally done to divert conversation away from what was clearly intentional and state-run doping by the Russian sports system and Government to create this kind of diversion from that issue, which has affected performance in a huge way........
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Chip Le Grand had a couple of stories on Watson yesterday in the Weekend Oz. This longer one in the sports section

The one question that brought down Jobe Watson
It was a year ago, on the 28th floor of the Deutsche Bank Place building overlooking Sydney Harbour, that Jobe Watson was formally asked the question that has plagued his conscience throughout the Essendon drug scandal: could he have done more to stop it?

The Essendon captain knew what the three tribunal members of the Court of Arbitration for Sport sitting in judgment of him wanted to hear. “I guess in hindsight you always think that you could have done more,’’ he began. He also knew the honest answer, the one he eventually gave, was quite different.

“At the time, it was the furthest thing in my mind that anyone would try and deliberately inject us to cheat,’’ he told the hearing. “When I think back on it, I think what a ridiculous thing for someone to want to do. It just didn’t make any more sense in my mind then, that I’d need to ask more questions. Why would anyone try and dope us without our knowledge?’’

What happened at Essendon has no precedent. There is not another documented case of a rogue sports scientist doping a team of professional footballers against their will after providing them with bogus assurances, in writing, about the substances he planned to give them. These circumstances and the four years of scandal they produced were yesterday distilled into a final, wretched decision by Watson to relinquish the Brownlow Medal he won in Essendon’s season of shame.....
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/spo...n/news-story/f13971f9ae1a695f73c1677c52a67857

Graphic that goes with this long article

upload_2016-11-13_17-39-39.png
 
The other article which was in the front part of the Wekend Oz

Doubts raised by AFL over Jobe Watson doping
The AFL raised doubts about whether Essendon captain Jobe Watson was injected with a banned substance by sports scientist Stephen Dank and argued that if the players were doped, they were not significantly at fault.

Following Watson’s decision, announced yesterday, to hand back the Brownlow Medal he won in Essendon’s drug-tainted season, The Weekend Australian can reveal league senior counsel Jeff Gleeson QC had urged the Court of Arbitration for Sport to consider the possibility that Watson was not doped at all.

Mr Gleeson, in a closing submission to last year’s court hearing that found Watson and 33 of his teammates guilty of taking a banned substance, argued that although Dank planned to use the banned peptide Thymosin Beta-4 at Essendon, his erratic manner made it less clear whether Watson or any other player was injected with it. “He was, it seems, the sort of fellow who would range around in the medicine cupboard and give players whatever he decided might work on a whim on any given day,’’ Gleeson said. “What about the problem that this inconsistent and erratic individual might not have given it to Jobe Watson?’’......
.......
Watson told ASADA he was injected between eight and 10 times during the 2012 season but does not know whether he was given Thymosin Beta-4. The material raises fresh questions about whether Dank had access to the banned peptide during the time in which Watson participated in his ill-fated injection program. It also details the steps taken by Watson to obtain more information about the substances Dank intended to use, including seeking medical advice from club doctor Bruce Reid.

Watson told the CAS hearing that the drug scandal had resulted in a breakdown of relationships he had with people at the club stretching back to childhood, when his father was a star player for the Bombers. “I suppose that, for us to be in the situation that we’re in now, there’s been a breakdown of relationships that I’ve had since I was a kid that I no longer have,’’ he told the hearing.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...g/news-story/3cac754b31c573b992787db76e4c8584
 
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