Mega Thread Hot Topic - Drugs and AFL

[Byrons Firen]

Agree, he only cheated at footy ffs. Hardly a reason to want him dead.

I don't want him dead. I want him to tell the players what was injected into them. Is that unreasonable?
They're young men in or approaching fatherhood. Are they not entitled to know that what was injected into them is/was OK and didn't
have long term consequences. He trusted Dank and was it not with Hird's knowledge kept from the club doctor (his own GP iirc).
Why was the club doctor sidelined. The victums are the naive but trusting players put into a position by Hird that may
have ongoing consequences. Ultimately none of this would have happened without the direct involvement of Hird.
Sometimes you reap what you sow.

 

[chiwigi]

I don't want him dead. I want him to tell the players what was injected into them. Is that unreasonable?
They're young men in or approaching fatherhood. Are they not entitled to know that what was injected into them is/was OK and didn't
have long term consequences. He trusted Dank and was it not with Hird's knowledge kept from the club doctor (his own GP iirc).
Why was the club doctor sidelined. The victums are the naive but trusting players put into a position by Hird that may
have ongoing consequences. Ultimately none of this would have happened without the direct involvement of Hird.
Sometimes you reap what you sow.

They are adults who did it for the advantage, the consequences are absolutely minimal. The over reaction is ridiculous, they all cheated. To pin it on Hird the way people have is absurd. yes he was in charge, but it's not like he was injecting children. He was injecting people looking for the advantage and happy to ignore any red flags to win. That's why they all got banned!

 

[Byrons Firen]

They are adults who did it for the advantage, the consequences are absolutely minimal. The over reaction is ridiculous, they all cheated. To pin it on Hird the way people have is absurd. yes he was in charge, but it's not like he was injecting children. He was injecting people looking for the advantage and happy to ignore any red flags to win. That's why they all got banned!

Circular argument that has had more than it's fair share of comment. I don't know the consequences cos I don't know what they were given.
People pin it on Hird because he was in charge. Whether the players were looking for an advantage or took it because they were told to
and that it was safe is imo more likely than players en masse saying "hey coach can you give us injections to give us an advantage"
Two schools of thought in all this and neither is likely to budge.

 

[Portology]

Circular argument that has had more than it's fair share of comment. I don't know the consequences cos I don't know what they were given.
People pin it on Hird because he was in charge. Whether the players were looking for an advantage or took it because they were told to
and that it was safe is imo more likely than players en masse saying "hey coach can you give us injections to give us an advantage"
Two schools of thought in all this and neither is likely to budge.

Yep. The cognitive dissonance has taken its toll on the man, and maybe on some on this board.

Rethinking blame for the *scandal* in the wake of Hird's sad health issue doesn't seem reasonable.

Allocating somewhat more blame for the scandal on to the dude who desperately wanted to believe the drugs were ok, who ignored the well documented bad character of the people advising him, blaming that bloke a bit more than the players who swallowed a line from a respected leader that was multiplied by the power of groupthink - that is reasonable. All guilty - yes, different offences technically speaking - yes, different degrees of guilt - of course.

Feeling annoyed that Hird lost "merely" reputation rather than suffering financially (apart from the legal expenses his choices cost him), and that his delaying tactics may have cost the players a slightly better deal for their offence - I don't think that ought to minimise sympathy for Hird's mental health issue.

If Smith wrote that Hird "had no one to blame but himself", well isn't that just a poor, crude relation to Shakespeare's "the fault lies not in the stars but in ourselves"?


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[chiwigi]

Circular argument that has had more than it's fair share of comment. I don't know the consequences cos I don't know what they were given.
People pin it on Hird because he was in charge. Whether the players were looking for an advantage or took it because they were told to
and that it was safe is imo more likely than players en masse saying "hey coach can you give us injections to give us an advantage"
Two schools of thought in all this and neither is likely to budge.

It's not a circular argument when people are arguing that they don't care if he does or that he has brought suicidal tendencies upon himself. The players are just as culpable and that's why they were suspended, the people who had ALL the facts suspended the players! They were not innocent bystanders.

 

[Power Girl]

They are adults who did it for the advantage, the consequences are absolutely minimal. The over reaction is ridiculous, they all cheated. To pin it on Hird the way people have is absurd. yes he was in charge, but it's not like he was injecting children. He was injecting people looking for the advantage and happy to ignore any red flags to win. That's why they all got banned!

I'm pretty sure an 18-20 year old lad who is extremely grateful for their chance and well aware of how quickly they can be replaced is not going to challenge the coaching panel who exist to tell them what to do - what to eat, how and what exercise they should be doing, when to rest, how and what they can do for recreation. No one especially younger men are going to challenge that. I don't challenge my doctor when he or she tell me to take medication and I am slightly older and have more life experiences than a young AFL player. So imo I blame all of the coaching staff, medical staff and the hierarchy of administration more so than the players.

 

[Steve Dore]

I'm pretty sure an 18-20 year old lad who is extremely grateful for their chance and well aware of how quickly they can be replaced is not going to challenge the coaching panel who exist to tell them what to do - what to eat, how and what exercise they should be doing, when to rest, how and what they can do for recreation. No one especially younger men are going to challenge that. I don't challenge my doctor when he or she tell me to take medication and I am slightly older and have more life experiences than a young AFL player. So imo I blame all of the coaching staff, medical staff and the hierarchy of administration more so than the players.

When the coach is worshiped like a deity at the club so much so that the club doctor, with years of experience, is hesitant to question what he is doing it is unfair to blame some 18 year old for not questioning what their coach has told them to do. It is also not as if there is a culture in many (most successful?) sporting clubs of trusting the coach and doing what he says without question.

 

[chiwigi]

I'm pretty sure an 18-20 year old lad who is extremely grateful for their chance and well aware of how quickly they can be replaced is not going to challenge the coaching panel who exist to tell them what to do - what to eat, how and what exercise they should be doing, when to rest, how and what they can do for recreation. No one especially younger men are going to challenge that. I don't challenge my doctor when he or she tell me to take medication and I am slightly older and have more life experiences than a young AFL player. So imo I blame all of the coaching staff, medical staff and the hierarchy of administration more so than the players.

18-20 old enough to drink, vote, fight, get married and do anything else. Old enough to own their decisions.

 

[TeeKray]

18-20 old enough to drink, vote, fight, get married and do anything else. Old enough to own their decisions.

In reality, no 18-20 year old (and beyond to be honest) is in any sort of position to challenge the systems put in place by a guy like James Hird given his standing in the game and at the club. You've also got the implicit approval of Mark Thompson, who at the time had coached 2 of the previous 5 premiership teams. If dissent was coming from anywhere it had to be from Jobe Watson and the leadership group. The players in general were grossly let down by the club.

 

[JayPea14]

In reality, no 18-20 year old (and beyond to be honest) is in any sort of position to challenge the systems put in place by a guy like James Hird given his standing in the game and at the club. You've also got the implicit approval of Mark Thompson, who at the time had coached 2 of the previous 5 premiership teams. If dissent was coming from anywhere it had to be from Jobe Watson and the leadership group. The players in general were grossly let down by the club.

Zaharakis says "Hi"

 

[Power Girl]

People have to put trust in professionals to advise them or do you do your own everything including surgery etc?

 

[Byrons Firen]

Old enough to know what side their bread is buttered on too. Naive enough to believe their coach, a legend of the game,
having their best interests at heart.

 

[Far Kern]

People aren't considering the propensity of humans to do what the group is doing, whether they feel personally uncomfortable about it or not. This plays out in far nastier scenarios than this.



Question: "What did you inject into my boy?"
Answer: "Derrrrp."

Scumbag.

 

[Byrons Firen]

As for this particular sub theme within the threads title if it's getting down to who has the last word with an echo
i'm bowing out of the comp, satisfied in my position and will agree to disagree.

 

[Grave Danger]

Zaharakis says "Hi"

Would be interesting to know if his objections went beyond anything other than a phobia of needles. Have to wait for his book I s'pose.

 

[Schulzenfest]

Zaharakis says "Hi"

Zaharakis didn't have the injections because he has a phobia of needles. I'm pretty confident he didn't think to himself 'hey, maybe there are illegal PED's in these injections so I'm not going to take them, but I'm not going to share these concerns with my teammates'.

 

[Grave Danger]

Zaharakis didn't have the injections because he has a phobia of needles. I'm pretty confident he didn't think to himself 'hey, maybe there are illegal PED's in these injections so I'm not going to take them, but I'm not going to share these concerns with my teammates'.

Were the 34 banned players only those who had injections, or did they include taking stuff by other means? If that's the case, maybe Zaharakis was a genuine conchy.

 

[Steve Dore]

Were the 34 banned players only those who had injections, or did they include taking stuff by other means? If that's the case, maybe Zaharakis was a genuine conchy.

My understanding is that the banned substances were only administered via injection.

 

[PatientMental]

Has long time personal relationship with one of the key architects of the regime in Shane Charter from his playing days (raising questions of a not so clean playing career), but somehow it's not his fault 34 players got suspended?

What the s**t?

 

[Hodges 153!]

I don't challenge my doctor when he or she tell me to take medication and I am slightly older and have more life experiences than a young AFL player.

But if an appropriate person of authority asks "have you taken any medication", would you tick yes or no?

 

[Steve Dore]

But if an appropriate person of authority asks "have you taken any medication", would you tick yes or no?

"I haven't taken any medication, only a supplement."

 

[SteppingTiger]

But if an appropriate person of authority asks "have you taken any medication", would you tick yes or no?

Again, if the club deity and co told you that you had to tick NO, then many would

 

[NEGAN]

How much blame does the club doctor cop?

 

[Steve Dore]

How much blame does the club doctor cop?

None, apparently.

 

[Rankor]

This thread should be locked now. We know the verdicts.

Unlock when something new comes to light.