FTA-TV House of Cards

Jan 7, 2005
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Just finished Season 4 and in my opinion, it was captivating. The other three seasons were really good, but I needed a break to digest the storylines every couple of episodes. With this Season, I just had to keep watching!

A few notes:

1. As entertaining as Frank was, I hope he gets found out. Because after killing a Washington Herald reporter and the major candidate for the Governor of Pennsylvania, threatening to kill the Secretary of State, ousting a sitting president through false impeachment, committing large scale corruption and conspiring to kill a prostitute, he had a human side to him; most exemplified by his relationship to Freddy, the rib guy. Sure his relationships with Meechum and Vice President Blythe were good, but his relationship with Freddy was kind of refreshing amidst the bravado, scheming and evil doing. When his suggestion for the send off for Freddy consisted of him cooking ribs for a party in keeping with his ever present and perpetual status as "the help", that eliminated what little bit of humanity Frank had left. The guy needs to be found out and jailed for the s**t he's done.

2. Claire's taking it up to the President was fantastic and showed how conniving the two of them are as a team.

3. Doug needs to be murdered. He's a psychopathic menace and the thought of him killing while he's meant to be the senior adviser to the leader of the free world irks me. He's just a weird little man.

4. Old mate Hammerschmidt will find out everything eventually. I always liked him and seeing him expose the President for everything he is will make me smile.

5. The sexual dynamics of the President, First Lady and those close to them are interesting, although far fetched. Sure, we don't believe that Barack and Michelle only do missionary and we know about Lady Eleanor's rug munching escapades, but they're about three episodes away from having a 46-way between the President, First Lady and the Democratic members of the US Senate.

6. That widower seemed nice, but that whole sexually charged moment with Doug in the finale made me want to plough through the TV and say "bitch, he a killer!".

7. The scene between Frank and Catherine Durant made me yell out "holy shiiiiiiit!". Great TV.

8. I think they need to end the series next season. The theoretical meaning of a House of Cards centres on the notion that if there's an imbalance in a delicate structure, the structure can crumble at any time. Frank's mistakes haven't been a mere imbalance in the very delicate structure of the US Presidency, rather a god damned avalanche. He will be found out, and whenever that is, it will mark the end of a very accurate and well done political drama.
******* lol at you listing all the vile things he's done, and concluding that rather than them it's patronising of Freddy that is the final straw :D

On the sexual dynamics, I think it's brilliant. And you may think far-fetched but is it? Really? This couple is driven by power, not by companionship or affection, it's not at all surprising that some parties might want it and the others happy for them to take it where they can. And don't forget how many UK politicians have been done for kinky s**t. In the US and in Washington there would be a huge swingers subculture. In short, just because we don't hear about it doesn't mean the facades are real.

The opinion that it needs to end next season is valid in some ways, although I disagree, but it's not valid to conclude it due to the name. "House of Cards" was the title of the UK show this was modeled on and took inspiration from, ergo the name isn't necessarily connected to what happens in the show. Having said that, I kind of agree it a house of cards, and that it will at some point come tumbling down; but at the same time I don't. I mean, for me, this show is one of the most accurate portrayals of what actually goes on in the lives of people with genuine power (although obviously the murders are not necessarily reflective), but this is how people do things. This is WHY people do things. Starting wars to hold power is nothing new, far from it. So is it really a house of cards? I don't know.

Personally, I hope that the obvious "tumbling down" thing doesn't occur, that Frank and Claire don't "get what's coming from them, the karma bus" that everyone expects to happen. I think a true twist would be Frank getting away with it, a la Bush/Rumsfeld etc
 

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******* lol at you listing all the vile things he's done, and concluding that rather than them it's patronising of Freddy that is the final straw :D

On the sexual dynamics, I think it's brilliant. And you may think far-fetched but is it? Really? This couple is driven by power, not by companionship or affection, it's not at all surprising that some parties might want it and the others happy for them to take it where they can. And don't forget how many UK politicians have been done for kinky s**t. In the US and in Washington there would be a huge swingers subculture. In short, just because we don't hear about it doesn't mean the facades are real.

The opinion that it needs to end next season is valid in some ways, although I disagree, but it's not valid to conclude it due to the name. "House of Cards" was the title of the UK show this was modeled on and took inspiration from, ergo the name isn't necessarily connected to what happens in the show. Having said that, I kind of agree it a house of cards, and that it will at some point come tumbling down; but at the same time I don't. I mean, for me, this show is one of the most accurate portrayals of what actually goes on in the lives of people with genuine power (although obviously the murders are not necessarily reflective), but this is how people do things. This is WHY people do things. Starting wars to hold power is nothing new, far from it. So is it really a house of cards? I don't know.

Personally, I hope that the obvious "tumbling down" thing doesn't occur, that Frank and Claire don't "get what's coming from them, the karma bus" that everyone expects to happen. I think a true twist would be Frank getting away with it, a la Bush/Rumsfeld etc

I don't agree with what he did, but for me, there was a part of him that was still human. After the Freddy thing, that notion ceased to exist.

I agree with you regarding the Underwood's being driven by power above all else. I never said otherwise. But the amount of strange sexual stuff they get into seems far fetched. And yes, that is because what we consider normal behaviour from the Chief Executive is based on centuries of a public façade from the Oval Office.

It may be based on the UK series, but the central premise of the show is based on the structural integrity of a House of Cards. I think the logical ending is that they get found out and it's a win for democracy, justice, and deontological ethics rather than the perpetual power they hope to achieve. To portray the United States as being susceptible to polyarchy is ludicrous. There has to be some element of reality to the ending. And no, the Bush/Rumsfeld partnership wasn't like the Underwood partnership. Completely different dynamics, even with their total disregard for Just War Theory, the UNSC and general decency on the international stage.
 
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I don't agree with what he did, but for me, there was a part of him that was still human. After the Freddy thing, that notion ceased to exist.

I agree with you regarding the Underwood's being driven by power above all else. I never said otherwise. But the amount of strange sexual stuff they get into seems far fetched. And yes, that is because what we consider normal behaviour from the Chief Executive is based on centuries of a public façade from the Oval Office.

It may be based on the UK series, but the central premise of the show is based on the structural integrity of a House of Cards. I think the logical ending is that they get found out and it's a win for democracy, justice, and deontological ethics rather than the perpetual power they hope to achieve. To portray the United States as being susceptible to polyarchy is ludicrous. There has to be some element of reality to the ending. And no, the Bush/Rumsfeld partnership wasn't like the Underwood partnership. Completely different dynamics, even with their total disregard for Just War Theory, the UNSC and general decency on the international stage.
I tend to think a "win for democracy, justice etc" is antithetical to the show itself, and it's for that reason I hope it doesn't pan out that way. I don't quite understand your assertion regarding a polyarchy being ludicrous, without evidence. Why is it ludicrous? I'm open to your argument, just not open to accepting it as an unsupported statement of fact. Whilst the power shared between Claire and Frank is more overt than it has been IRL due to her holding a separate position of power, I think it's loosely modeled on the Clinton's personally, where I think it's undeniable that Hillary had a massive amount of influence over the executive position. Nancy Reagen, too, had distinct influence.

I wasn't comparing them to Bush/Rumsfeld btw, I was talking about the "getting away with it" element of it all - whereby you can run a grand con and not have the house come tumbling down, other than through the normal rise and fall of administrations
 

Croweater

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I tend to think a "win for democracy, justice etc" is antithetical to the show itself, and it's for that reason I hope it doesn't pan out that way. I don't quite understand your assertion regarding a polyarchy being ludicrous, without evidence. Why is it ludicrous? I'm open to your argument, just not open to accepting it as an unsupported statement of fact. Whilst the power shared between Claire and Frank is more overt than it has been IRL due to her holding a separate position of power, I think it's loosely modeled on the Clinton's personally, where I think it's undeniable that Hillary had a massive amount of influence over the executive position. Nancy Reagen, too, had distinct influence.

I wasn't comparing them to Bush/Rumsfeld btw, I was talking about the "getting away with it" element of it all - whereby you can run a grand con and not have the house come tumbling down, other than through the normal rise and fall of administrations

It's an antithesis to Frank's personality, not the show. Throughout the series, the discussion on doing what's right has been a focal point. The influence of the news media in sourcing information on corruption and murder, the Denton-Sharp partnership to expose the President, Lucas Goodwin and Zoe Barnes unearthing the death of Michael Russo and desperately trying to get someone to pay attention. They're all examples of the show pitting evil against the greater good.

And I knew the parable you were making with Bush and Rumsfeld. But the Iraq War was a lot different to murdering reporters and falsely impeaching a sitting President. However, if you were talking about 9/11, take it to the conspiracy board.
 
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It's an antithesis to Frank's personality, not the show. Throughout the series, the discussion on doing what's right has been a focal point. The influence of the news media in sourcing information on corruption and murder, the Denton-Sharp partnership to expose the President, Lucas Goodwin and Zoe Barnes unearthing the death of Michael Russo and desperately trying to get someone to pay attention. They're all examples of the show pitting evil against the greater good.

And I knew the parable you were making with Bush and Rumsfeld. But the Iraq War was a lot different to murdering reporters and falsely impeaching a sitting President. However, if you were talking about 9/11, take it to the conspiracy board.
interesting. I am enjoying your perspective.

I would argue though that Frank's personality IS the show. Which is, of course, embodied by his asides to us the audience, where we gain access to his innermost thoughts and feelings that absolutely no-one else (until the last ep!) is privy to.

For me, the "greater good" you refer to is an inverted antagonist to Frank's protagonist. The sheer genius of the show is that it has me cheering for Frank against someone like Heather, who by all possible metrics would make a way better President - yet I am barracking for Frank! Pure genius.

So the show is actually all about Frank's (and Claire's) personality, and overcoming all that other crap. So yes, I can see the "house of cards" argument, and I can see it all coming crashing down, and it wouldn't surprise me if it went that way; but it wouldn't surprise me (and it would thrill me) if it didn't.

I was most heartened by the last episode. I thought the story that Old Mate Hammerschmidt was writing would be the collapse of it, and that they might even hold that story over into the next season and have that as the defining narrative. The fact that they didn't, and that it appears possible that Frank and Claire have already completely beaten that threat by pure audacity and amorality in the pursuit of power, is just awesome imo.

FYI I most certainly was referring to hidden weapons of mass destruction and definitely not 9/11 ;)
 

Croweater

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interesting. I am enjoying your perspective.

I would argue though that Frank's personality IS the show. Which is, of course, embodied by his asides to us the audience, where we gain access to his innermost thoughts and feelings that absolutely no-one else (until the last ep!) is privy to.

For me, the "greater good" you refer to is an inverted antagonist to Frank's protagonist. The sheer genius of the show is that it has me cheering for Frank against someone like Heather, who by all possible metrics would make a way better President - yet I am barracking for Frank! Pure genius.

So the show is actually all about Frank's (and Claire's) personality, and overcoming all that other crap. So yes, I can see the "house of cards" argument, and I can see it all coming crashing down, and it wouldn't surprise me if it went that way; but it wouldn't surprise me (and it would thrill me) if it didn't.

I was most heartened by the last episode. I thought the story that Old Mate Hammerschmidt was writing would be the collapse of it, and that they might even hold that story over into the next season and have that as the defining narrative. The fact that they didn't, and that it appears possible that Frank and Claire have already completely beaten that threat by pure audacity and amorality in the pursuit of power, is just awesome imo.

FYI I most certainly was referring to hidden weapons of mass destruction and definitely not 9/11 ;)

I can see your point regarding Frank's personality being the show and their ability to overcome everything forming the central premise. I agree to an extent. But only to an extent.

I think Hammerschmidt will be a defining character next season. I can't wait for it.

Although Frank is a nutcase, it is captivating TV. It's superbly written, it's mostly a very accurate representation of the US political system, and the performances are very good. Among all else, I like how the show has the licence to put whatever the hell it wants on the screen. That's why I like HBO and Netflix. They aren't malleable to public and political pressure. They tell everyone to GAGF.
 
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I can see your point regarding Frank's personality being the show and their ability to overcome everything forming the central premise. I agree to an extent. But only to an extent.

I think Hammerschmidt will be a defining character next season. I can't wait for it.

Although Frank is a nutcase, it is captivating TV. It's superbly written, it's mostly a very accurate representation of the US political system, and the performances are very good. Among all else, I like how the show has the licence to put whatever the hell it wants on the screen. That's why I like HBO and Netflix. They aren't malleable to public and political pressure. They tell everyone to GAGF.
So ******* good
 

MC Bad Genius

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Just finished season 4 and really loved it
season 3 probably dipped a bit for me...
Slight criticism - I was kind of hoping for a little bit more out of Neve Campbells's character (20 year obsession here!!!)

last scene of last episode was chilling

Took me half the season to even realise it was Neve Campbell!
 

MC Bad Genius

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I can see your point regarding Frank's personality being the show and their ability to overcome everything forming the central premise. I agree to an extent. But only to an extent.

I think Hammerschmidt will be a defining character next season. I can't wait for it.

Although Frank is a nutcase, it is captivating TV. It's superbly written, it's mostly a very accurate representation of the US political system, and the performances are very good. Among all else, I like how the show has the licence to put whatever the hell it wants on the screen. That's why I like HBO and Netflix. They aren't malleable to public and political pressure. They tell everyone to GAGF.

Speaking of putting whatever the hell they want on the screen, a friend recently told me she'd never watch the show because of what happened in the opening scene in Season 1 Episode 1. I couldn't remember it at all, but when I rewatched I realised how confronting it is. That freedom definitely makes it possible to go in darker/stranger/shocking directions than it otherwise would.
 

MC Bad Genius

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interesting. I am enjoying your perspective.

I would argue though that Frank's personality IS the show. Which is, of course, embodied by his asides to us the audience, where we gain access to his innermost thoughts and feelings that absolutely no-one else (until the last ep!) is privy to.

For me, the "greater good" you refer to is an inverted antagonist to Frank's protagonist. The sheer genius of the show is that it has me cheering for Frank against someone like Heather, who by all possible metrics would make a way better President - yet I am barracking for Frank! Pure genius.

So the show is actually all about Frank's (and Claire's) personality, and overcoming all that other crap. So yes, I can see the "house of cards" argument, and I can see it all coming crashing down, and it wouldn't surprise me if it went that way; but it wouldn't surprise me (and it would thrill me) if it didn't.

I was most heartened by the last episode. I thought the story that Old Mate Hammerschmidt was writing would be the collapse of it, and that they might even hold that story over into the next season and have that as the defining narrative. The fact that they didn't, and that it appears possible that Frank and Claire have already completely beaten that threat by pure audacity and amorality in the pursuit of power, is just awesome imo.

FYI I most certainly was referring to hidden weapons of mass destruction and definitely not 9/11 ;)

I'm not sure the journalistic investigation is over at all, but I definitely agree with your point about cheering for Frank even though he is such a despicable person. I always marvelled at an audience's ability to be on Walter White's side for most of Breaking Bad, but at some point a lot of people moved to Team Hank because they wanted Walt to get his comeuppance. What I've found with House Of Cards is that people don't stop cheering for Frank, they just stop watching the show altogether!
 
Finished this off last night. Read the last few pages and agree with most ppl, superb season, maybe the best - although it's a long time since I saw the first one. The pace was great, and plotlines more entertaining than S3.

Spacey is outstanding. If being a "House of Cards" it all falls to pieces...wouldn't exactly be a happy ending if it meant that Egomaniac tosser Conway became president! Maybe an unexpected twist would be that FU gets away with everything, we'll see...

If we're OK to stop using spoiler tags then................










Incredible that they'd go to war purely to save his presidency. I know, I know, it's been done before but just to see it unfold like that...and then that final scene with Claire and Frank utterly unmoved by the execution, which I guess they wanted to happen on live tv to shock the nation and guarantee the country's support for war....they're monsters!!

Show of the year so far for mine, along with OJ. (I'm still watching BBS too).
 

GCNavyBlue

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Havent gone through the whole thread but are people aware of the early 90's british series based on the same book? For early 90's show it is pretty bossed out. Both great shows - i think Spacey's acting, likeability, and the modern take on it all puts this series on top of the british version.
 

Caj

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Just binge watched Season 3 & 4

Does anyone think that Frank's visions of his altercation with Claire might come to fruition in the end? Would be appropriate!!
 
Just binge watched Season 3 & 4

Does anyone think that Frank's visions of his altercation with Claire might come to fruition in the end? Would be appropriate!!
You mean at the start of S4? That wasn't a vision. That happened. That's why they weren't talking at the start of the season.

Or did I read it totally wrong?
 
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What is fascinating for me is what do they want with the actual power? Yes they are ruthless strat trade and actual wars, kill people, destroy people etc to achieve a goal but what if they win do they ultimately hope to achieve. What is the goal in amassing all this power. It is genius. This is where characters like the Conways, who have given away aren't the all American caricature they appear to be and Doug, Seth and Aidan (who are content to play a bit role) are fascinating. What do they all want? Why are they willing to pander to Frank?

The only character who reveals themselves is Freddy. Who goes from a criminal to a follower of Frank to being happy working in a flower shop and despising what Frank stands for.

What is it they all ultimately want if they achieve power?
 

Caj

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You mean at the start of S4? That wasn't a vision. That happened. That's why they weren't talking at the start of the season.

Or did I read it totally wrong?
I was trying to be a bit vague but I suppose spoilers aren't really necessary now. When he was in a coma he had visions of Claire stabbing him, I was theorising that perhaps that could be a foresight to how the show ends
 
I was trying to be a bit vague but I suppose spoilers aren't really necessary now. When he was in a coma he had visions of Claire stabbing him, I was theorising that perhaps that could be a foresight to how the show ends
Ah that one. Ignore my post then, misunderstood.
 
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Finally got into season 4 and am now up to date. Bit of a weird show. Sometimes I enjoy it immensely, other times I just find it harder to enjoy. Definitely love the way it portrays politicians. You only have to look at the politics of recent times and of times gone by to know that there is another whole new world in which politicians scheme in.

Agree with the criticisms of the show though. Doesn't touch a show like The Wire for me because some of the storyline purely is simply far too unbelievable and lacks any kind of feeling. The whole ICO storyline was pretty ridiculous, particularly the end where the president just goes off on his merry way and basically declares war on a region without any kind of scheming, backing etc.

You just have to add up all the scandals and crazy s**t that the Underwoods have got away with and it starts to become pretty absurd. They've gone to great lengths to keep their partnership and stay in the oval office, and nobody really understands why. Also strange how so many people are drawn to helping out such a corrupt figure.

Then there's the fact that there isn't a single likeable character on the show. There's the odd human storyline with Doug battling his alcohol demons but nobody gives a s**t about that because he's one of the most despicable character I've seen on a show. They seemingly wrote off every character that you at least kind of could root for in the fight against Underwood and only journo Tom is left. Maybe there's a Watergate coming, but personally I don't see it.

Every opponent of theirs goes away far too easily. They prop up a character as being a huge barrier and they seemingly blow over after a gust of wind. Was far too predictable for Conway to get involved in terrorist negotiations. I was surprised the journo didn't roll over like everyone else has.

Good show, but some variety and different direction wouldn't hurt.
 
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