Society/Culture How about we all just grow up and not be so petulant. The Chol 'incident'

Evolved1

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In 2020, you'd have thought we'd moved past these displays of boys club conduct within professional AFL clubs. I guess not. It shows how far the league still has to go in professionalism.

That type of behaviour wouldn't be tolerated at a McDonalds if it was done by bunch of teen boys, so why should it be tolerated in a professional sports club that employs grown men?

Just harmless fun and games...maybe, maybe not. It shouldn't be tolerated as the norm because you don't really know how it affects each player. Even if it was just fun for all and a one off situation, it's a bad look for the AFL who want to provide inoffensive family friendly viewing.
 

medusala

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Really? This is somehow news.

Photos of the English female soccer team after a game in the dressing rooms were widely circulated. The press refused to touch it as it would harm the game.

Makes this incident look light a meeting of the temperance society. Sports media is full of those who know which side their bread is buttered on.
 
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In 2020, you'd have thought we'd moved past these displays of boys club conduct within professional AFL clubs. I guess not. It shows how far the league still has to go in professionalism.

That type of behaviour wouldn't be tolerated at a McDonalds if it was done by bunch of teen boys, so why should it be tolerated in a professional sports club that employs grown men?

Just harmless fun and games...maybe, maybe not. It shouldn't be tolerated as the norm because you don't really know how it affects each player. Even if it was just fun for all and a one off situation, it's a bad look for the AFL who want to provide inoffensive family friendly viewing.

This is not Maccas, how far do we want to sterilize?

The issue should be what the intent is, not what Mrs Jones on the couch thinks.

Just because footy club environments are footy club environments or 'boys club' as you describe does not make AFL clubs unprofessional.

Offence is taken not given, it is no one elses business.

If the AFL want to sterilize to this point, why not exclude players with tattoos or mohawk hair cuts? After all they are taboo, the AFL wouldn't tattooed players getting around in case someone somewhere has ptsd about tattoos and mohawks. How about white players because y'know white male privilege? Where does one draw the line?

How much do we want to 'protect' the minority? Why don't we just go the easy path and shut the game down altogether if this is an issue?
 
Oct 2, 2007
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Why are you bringing minors into a non debate? This has zero to do with under age players, this is about the hyperbole around what is essentially nothing, it's banter (for want of a better word) among team mates in a football team. Nothing more, and it's no one elses business.

If members of the public take offence to something so trivial then that's on them.

So coaches should only analy finger the guys and play with their knobs after they're drafted in as adults? Then it's OK to you?

What about in other workplaces? Should it be OK for me to anally finger and grab the willys of uni grads to my Law Firm? They're in their early 20s. What about in the public service to new employees?

Its not sexual. Just a bit of light hearted boys club banter.

Youre saying that should be OK?

At what age can I sexually assault my team mates when its OK and just boys club fun?
 
Oooh boy!, so you actually believe that society as a whole has a real issue with footy players doing what footy players do because a couple of players said so?

Obviously you don't realize that players can't just say 'nah it's just us team mates' to the media because it's not politically correct.

There was nothing wrong with it, only to a minor few,
And obviously Chol can't come out and say "Actually I had a problem with that behaviour" to the media because it would throw his team mates under the bus, yet you have no issue taking his words at face value because its convenient for your view. The fact the players involved, the club, and the AFL reacted the way they did shows they take the issue far more seriously than yourself and from where I'm sitting, it's clear you know that because you've come to the politics forum, and you've made this thread about why we all just need to grow up.

Anyway, you evidently look at this behaviour through rose coloured glasses and are trying your utmost to portray it as just harmless fun that's present in every football locker room around the country when in reality, harmless fun can easily be taken too far and not everybody is comfortable speaking up when they feel somebody has crossed the line towards them. Now, the fact that Chol came out and said "I took no offence" is irrelevant to why this case was a big deal; when it's visible in a professional atmosphere it's endorsement of a sort of behaviour that is responsible for a lot of angst around the country and that a lot of junior clubs in particular go to lengths to stamp out. I'm not surprised in the least that the AFL doesn't want to associate their brand with those actions, not sure why this has surprised you?

If the cameras weren't there, this wouldn't have been an issue (probably) unless another player spoke up. But they were, and here we are.

If the AFL want to sterilize to this point, why not exclude players with tattoos or mohawk hair cuts? After all they are taboo, the AFL wouldn't tattooed players getting around in case someone somewhere has ptsd about tattoos and mohawks. How about white players because y'know white male privilege? Where does one draw the line?
Comparing hairstyles to grabbing dicks? Really? I'm guessing you can tell the difference in that you won't get sent to prison if you have a mohawk in the presence of somebody who doesn't like mohawks, but grab the wrong dick and that's where you can wind up.
 

Evolved1

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This is not Maccas, how far do we want to sterilize?

The issue should be what the intent is, not what Mrs Jones on the couch thinks.

Just because footy club environments are footy club environments or 'boys club' as you describe does not make AFL clubs unprofessional.

Offence is taken not given, it is no one elses business.

If the AFL want to sterilize to this point, why not exclude players with tattoos or mohawk hair cuts? After all they are taboo, the AFL wouldn't tattooed players getting around in case someone somewhere has ptsd about tattoos and mohawks. How about white players because y'know white male privilege? Where does one draw the line?

How much do we want to 'protect' the minority? Why don't we just go the easy path and shut the game down altogether if this is an issue?
Just like any McDonalds, AFL clubs are obligated to provide a safe workplace for their employees free of sexual harassment and sexual assault. It's not about baseless sanitisation at all, just adherence to workplace laws.

There's no need to shut down the game because the players can't grope their colleagues by their balls. That's a bit dramatic, isn't it?

Are tattoos and mohawks illegal in your workplace? I don't see any relevance from comparing tattoos to groping. One of those has no effect on other people while the other can.

The ADF has had controversies from 'harmless' sexual harassment, and I don't see how that sort of behaviour is edifying for the game or the players. Like it or not, Mrs Jones has a say in what sporting codes her kids will play. There are commercial considerations at stake here too.

If the players are willing to forgo 50% of their salary for the benefit of groping their teammates, I'd be shocked.
 
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So coaches should only analy finger the guys and play with their knobs after they're drafted in as adults? Then it's OK to you?

What about in other workplaces? Should it be OK for me to anally finger and grab the willys of uni grads to my Law Firm? They're in their early 20s. What about in the public service to new employees?

Its not sexual. Just a bit of light hearted boys club banter.

Youre saying that should be OK?

At what age can I sexually assault my team mates when its OK and just boys club fun?

If you're going to continue bringing minors into this debate, which is not relevant then I think we're done.
 
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And obviously Chol can't come out and say "Actually I had a problem with that behaviour" to the media because it would throw his team mates under the bus, yet you have no issue taking his words at face value because its convenient for your view. The fact the players involved, the club, and the AFL reacted the way they did shows they take the issue far more seriously than yourself and from where I'm sitting, it's clear you know that because you've come to the politics forum, and you've made this thread about why we all just need to grow up.

Anyway, you evidently look at this behaviour through rose coloured glasses and are trying your utmost to portray it as just harmless fun that's present in every football locker room around the country when in reality, harmless fun can easily be taken too far and not everybody is comfortable speaking up when they feel somebody has crossed the line towards them. Now, the fact that Chol came out and said "I took no offence" is irrelevant to why this case was a big deal; when it's visible in a professional atmosphere it's endorsement of a sort of behaviour that is responsible for a lot of angst around the country and that a lot of junior clubs in particular go to lengths to stamp out. I'm not surprised in the least that the AFL doesn't want to associate their brand with those actions, not sure why this has surprised you?

If the cameras weren't there, this wouldn't have been an issue (probably) unless another player spoke up. But they were, and here we are.


Comparing hairstyles to grabbing dicks? Really? I'm guessing you can tell the difference in that you won't get sent to prison if you have a mohawk in the presence of somebody who doesn't like mohawks, but grab the wrong dick and that's where you can wind up.

As expected you're sensationalizing this incident, you're assuming that Chol might've been offended. And you're also assuming there is a possibility that sexual harassment and assault exists among team mates.

You do realize how silly that sounds (obviously not), a tight knit group with a collective goal to win a flag. How well do you think they'd be travelling if that actually was true? That would mean that the players goal would be to assault and harass, not gun for a flag, do you really honestly think that this is the case here? That would be a classic example of naivety.

Of course the AFL don't want their brand associated with team mate horse play, because it's not politically correct. Doesn't mean footballers have the same mindset and I seriously doubt that the bulk of society sees this as 'damaging' not to the hyperbole level displayed by the media. To a kid working at Maccas, or a colleague at the office - of course yes.

This is an adult football team with a focus on winning football games, not mentally fragile types. If they feel they've been assaulted or harassed by a dick punch or an ass grab from a team mate with jovial intention then they wouldn't have the mettle to play football - that'd be the last thing on their mind.

Just because the idiot box says 'everyone thinks this is wrong' doesn't mean you have to believe it. Don't be so naive.
 
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Just like any McDonalds, AFL clubs are obligated to provide a safe workplace for their employees free of sexual harassment and sexual assault. It's not about baseless sanitisation at all, just adherence to workplace laws.

There's no need to shut down the game because the players can't grope their colleagues by their balls. That's a bit dramatic, isn't it?

Are tattoos and mohawks illegal in your workplace? I don't see any relevance from comparing tattoos to groping. One of those has no effect on other people while the other can.

The ADF has had controversies from 'harmless' sexual harassment, and I don't see how that sort of behaviour is edifying for the game or the players. Like it or not, Mrs Jones has a say in what sporting codes her kids will play. There are commercial considerations at stake here too.

If the players are willing to forgo 50% of their salary for the benefit of groping their teammates, I'd be shocked.

It is NOT sexual assault, it is team mates playing up with jovial intention. The last time I looked AF was not safe to play, that is their work place, certainly more dangerous than being grabbed on the ass. Do you propose we shut footy down because it's a dangerous work place?, because it is - fact.

Tattoos and mohawks are offensive to someone somewhere, just like someone else getting dick punched on the tv when you're on the couch.

If something so trivial like tattoos or dick punches among footy team mates is offensive then life is going to be really hard isn't it. Fragile types that are offended by such things are the minority not the majority. The media don't need to hyperbolize the situation.

Mrs Jones is one of those in the minority, political correctness is not actually popular regardless how much the idiot box tells you it is. There's your 'commercial considerations'.
 
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If you're going to continue bringing minors into this debate, which is not relevant then I think we're done.

Im not talking about minors. Read the damn post.

Are you saying that its appropriate for me to anally finger and grab the dicks of my adult interns?

Boys club only here. I don't get any sexual gratification from it.

Let me be more specific:

Is it OK for Buckley and Pendles to welcome new recruits to the Pies with regular anal fingering and grabbing their knobs? As long as those two don't get any sexual gratification from it, this is OK?

Youre saying this is appropriate in a workplace environment?

Yes or No answer please.
 

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FMD! How do we want to treat our footballers? We are talking about football right? Y'know where you have to be mentally and physically prepared. It's a seriously tough game, not sure mates ribbing you, and you fold, would warrant you playing this game - let alone at the top level.

You mean those mentally tough footballers who, if they get drafted by an interstate club, need to be traded so they can be reunited with their mummies as quickly as possible?
 
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This is not Maccas, how far do we want to sterilize?

The issue should be what the intent is, not what Mrs Jones on the couch thinks.

Just because footy club environments are footy club environments or 'boys club' as you describe does not make AFL clubs unprofessional.

Offence is taken not given, it is no one elses business.

If the AFL want to sterilize to this point, why not exclude players with tattoos or mohawk hair cuts? After all they are taboo, the AFL wouldn't tattooed players getting around in case someone somewhere has ptsd about tattoos and mohawks. How about white players because y'know white male privilege? Where does one draw the line?

How much do we want to 'protect' the minority? Why don't we just go the easy path and shut the game down altogether if this is an issue?
Yeah, if you want to be able to go up to some guy and grab him on the utensil you should be allowed to do it, right?

And sticking your finger up his arse in a no brainer, hell everyone does this at my work
 
If the intent is not to assault
But every touch is an assault.

After that you work out if there are defences.

Incidental shoulder bump in the street? Defence is that it is a part of everyday life.

Doctor touches you? You’ve given consent.

A fist fight? Did you both challenge and accept and so consent to the consequences of a normal punch up?

Grabbing in the locker room? Have all parties been playing a game like that and so consented to the occasional grab?

I think what struck everyone is that Chol did not at all look like he was in on the game. He looked like he was on the defensive the whole time. He wasn’t grabbing back. He looked like the target, not a participant.

But now the club’s legal counsel - not his own - have grilled him and he has come out protecting the club and players like a good soldier.

After Lumumba claims he was targeted for throwing Buckley under the bus, and the general culture of footy is to keep quiet and look after everyone else, why would anyone ever raise their hand and say it isn’t OK? Specially if your club is heading for finals?

I think if we’re being honest with ourselves, we all know what we saw.
 

Maddhew

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This is an interesting article. It seems like the selective outrage only applies when the groping is committed by a white male on black male. Female on female ok, south asian on white ok, white on black bad.
 

Maddhew

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The racial element of the outrage is also racist.

And no, not at white people. The very idea that power constructs are bred into people and that in an exchange with a white man, the black man can only be a victim is so f@%cking racist it's not funny.

That's not to say that these exchanges can't be racially motivated, but to jump to that conclusion, even after the player himself stated he was comfortable with the exchange is extraordinary.

I saw 2 Richmond footballers mucking around. The colour of the skin did not even enter my mind. The fact people have become conditioned to see otherwise is an indictment on the identity politics played by the left and perpetuated by MSM over the past 2 decades.
 

Maddhew

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The exchange probably is also a fantastic example of inclusiveness in modern day AFL. The code has been criticised in the past for its attitudes towards minorities. In 2020 you see some guys engaging in regular locker room antics and banter, and people lose their s**t because one of them is black. How would people react if everyone's ass was grabbed except for Chol's? In this situation...Can't Chol just be a Richmond player? why does he have to be a black Richmond player?
 
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The racial element of the outrage is also racist.

And no, not at white people. The very idea that power constructs are bred into people and that in an exchange with a white man, the black man can only be a victim is so f@%cking racist it's not funny.

That's not to say that these exchanges can't be racially motivated, but to jump to that conclusion, even after the player himself stated he was comfortable with the exchange is extraordinary.

I saw 2 Richmond footballers mucking around. The colour of the skin did not even enter my mind. The fact people have become conditioned to see otherwise is an indictment on the identity politics played by the left and perpetuated by MSM over the past 2 decades.
Cultural attitudes towards homosexuality are very different, I'd argue that while I doubt he was targeted for because of his background but his reaction certainly reflected it because unless you're a proctologist trying to finger another guy's arse is really f***ing gay.
 
Where is the uproar?


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Jan 12, 2011
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Just as there isn't an "uproar" about Richmond there is no "uproar" about the others

What we do have however is a conversation about what is right and what is wrong and it shouldn't be applied to a single incident, it should be applied to all incidents

Oh, I just got it....it is you who is in "uproar"
 
You've given examples of male and female sports where there was no real response.

Do any of these people look uncomfortable? Did any of those people leap back, swatting the hands away? Was it multiple people grabbing them? Were they grabbed in the front or back?

Personally, I don't think these examples look anything like the Richmond incidents.

Chol says all fair play, which is fine. But it's a good convo to have.

It's good to tell kids that, if they have an issue like this, they can speak up without everyone telling them to harden up it's locker room bants.
 
Riewoldt did it to one of the other guys as well, can't remember who but i feel like Chol was singled out by the media because he is black, trying to make it into a race issue as well which the media do love of course.
I have to say it's weird though - have we ever seen that in the post-game circle before? I can't recall.
 
Just as there isn't an "uproar" about Richmond there is no "uproar" about the others

What we do have however is a conversation about what is right and what is wrong and it shouldn't be applied to a single incident, it should be applied to all incidents

Oh, I just got it....it is you who is in "uproar"
A quick google search of 'Chol' comes up with the following straight away. I would say that is a bit of an uproar

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What really amazes me is the person it happened to is not distressed and doesn't feel victimized. So why do other people need to get offended for him?
 
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