How about we offer real initiatives to aid Indigenous talent for 2023. NOT JUST TALK?

[Required]

This was being discussed in one of the many Clarkson and Fagan threads. But this is a bit off topic, but more relevant to the outcome for Indigenous kids, and so needs its own thread....

All the talk about the Indigenous kids, Fagan and Clarkson is pretty negative in one way or another. Id prefer to see people look to positive outcomes that may help all parties, and in particular Indigenous kids be able to follow their dream, and for clubs to take a chance on them.


The current situation, In trying to do the right thing by these players, it may have the opposite effect with clubs now more hesitant to engage Indigenous kids going forward. Not the high draft picks, but the 50/50 ones? Im going to 'assume' that may end up being the case as businesses always lean towards less risk, be it stated or not. In which case we need to ensure that this doesnt happen and put something in place to prevent it.


I dont know about others, but id be happy for the AFL to allow clubs to add 2 spots in their rookie list for Indigenous kids in the future? I know this is a slippery slope in giving one group an 'advantage' over the many other cultures in Australia that play AFL. But Indigenous kids historically have been a part of the game, and i think what is currently transpiring shows we havent done our best to support them. This in some way may help clubs to give more of these kids an opportunity?

Gadzorks commented;

Use the mega dollar media deal to create the additional two list spots per team and make the spots valid for two years not one. Can call it a rookie C category or whatever.

Means from year two of the program there are four kids in these positions. While they won't all be best mates it's a group that hopefully can work together.

Apply the standard rookie rules re moving onto the main list.

Each club now has a indigenous liaison person so their welfare will be monitored and supported.

Even if these players don't make it into the main list they have learnt how it works and that knowledge goes back to their families and communities.

So the communities of both the clubs and the players are learning about each other.

That's gotta be a good thing right?

 

[bzparkes]

Hopefully we can start by teaching them to use capslock appropriately when starting forum threads.

 

[Required]

Hopefully we can start by teaching them to use capslock appropriately when starting forum threads.

See, there it is. Because i made what you consider an grammatical error, you assume im one of 'them'. What hope do Indigenous kids have with that sort of attitude ingrained?

.

 

[bzparkes]

What makes you think im one of 'Them..'?

What?

You titled your thread all caps, no need to shout.

 

[Required]

Moving on, anyone have other ideas that could help Indigenous talent realise their AFL dreams? Something more than words? I think we've moved past 'sorry'.
.

 

[bzparkes]

Not sure extra list spots are required, they can already come onto lists via the Cat B category after all.

It'd probably be more appropriate for coaching/support staff to undergo cultural sensitivity training to gain greater empathy when working with players from remote indigenous backgrounds.

For all the * ups WCE have had over the years, internal issues with indigenous players wasn't one of them, as far as I am aware.

We had Phil Narkle as liaison officer for 11 years and Chance Bateman

Chance Bateman

Age

41

Ht

175cm

Wt

75kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.1

4star

K

8.8

3star

HB

6.3

4star

M

3.9

4star

T

2.1

4star

CL

1.1

3star

No current season stats available

D

18.6

5star

K

11.0

4star

HB

7.6

5star

M

4.6

5star

T

2.8

5star

CL

1.2

4star

returned to resume the role he left after the soft cuts to the cap during covid.

Should be a mandatory requirement for all clubs and it should be outside the cap, at the very least.

 

[Required]

Not sure extra list spots are required, they can already come onto lists via the Cat B category after all.

It'd probably be more appropriate for coaching/support staff to undergo cultural sensitivity training to gain greater empathy when working with players from remote indigenous backgrounds.

For all the * ups WCE have had over the years, internal issues with indigenous players wasn't one of them, as far as I am aware.

We had Phil Narkle as liaison officer for 11 years and Chance Bateman returned to resume the role he left after the soft cuts to the cap during covid.

Should be a mandatory requirement for all clubs and it should be outside the cap, at the very least.

The point of the two extra rookie spots is they would be filled by Indigenous kids only, and possibly MUST be filled. As Gadzorks explained his idea.

WA are probably more 'in tune' with Indigenous culture and so have a greater understanding of issues. Also WA has a big Indigenous community compared to Melbourne.

Yes, mandatory Liaison officers is a great idea. Especially if all clubs must fill 2 rookie spots with Indigenous talent.
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[Calypso]

Think it’s a great idea (and very well contextualised, OP). I take bzp’s point that they can already join as Cat B rookies. However, like others have commented, the Hawthorn matter may deter clubs from taking indigenous players, so having a Cat C just for them, with the carrot of 2 extra list spots, may tilt things back the other way. It will also spotlight which clubs may be avoiding taking indigenous players.

I got the impression that the Hawthorn 3 were late picks. They were not footballing royalty - Riolis, Motlops, Mileras, etc - who grow up with family footy role models and expectations for a career, but kids without such experience and support. A specific program, with incentive for clubs, could work really well. I also like the 2-year idea: the second years could be asked to mentor the first year players, developing leadership skills.

 

[Rob]

Moving on, anyone have other ideas that could help Indigenous talent realise their AFL dreams? Something more than words? I think we've moved past 'sorry'.
.

List spots aren't the problem. There are many times the number of Indigenous players on AFL lists than the number as an overall proportion in society. Extra list spots are a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

Isn't the problem how Indigenous players are treated?

 

[Required]

List spots aren't the problem. There are many times the number of Indigenous players on AFL lists than the number as an overall proportion in society. Extra list spots are a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

Isn't the problem how Indigenous players are treated?

As Calypso stated above, and i said in the OP; Clubs may now be more inclined to see 50/50 Indigenous potential draftees as having some extra risk associated after all this? That is a real concern and i think it requires some sort of concrete action to make sure clubs continue to give these kids a chance. Businesses try to eliminate risk, either stated or not.

By mandating 2 list spots for Indigenous kids, (and a Liason officer) ensures clubs continue to give these kids a chance, and any issues the kids have are mediated by people that understand them.
.

 

[Kwality]

Think it’s a great idea (and very well contextualised, OP). I take bzp’s point that they can already join as Cat B rookies. However, like others have commented, the Hawthorn matter may deter clubs from taking indigenous players, so having a Cat C just for them, with the carrot of 2 extra list spots, may tilt things back the other way. It will also spotlight which clubs may be avoiding taking indigenous players.

I got the impression that the Hawthorn 3 were late picks. They were not footballing royalty - Riolis, Motlops, Mileras, etc - who grow up with family footy role models and expectations for a career, but kids without such experience and support. A specific program, with incentive for clubs, could work really well. I also like the 2-year idea: the second years could be asked to mentor the first year players, developing leadership skills.

So there are indigenous kids coming through to the draft now. The problems currently dominating discussions are the kids already in AFL clubs.
How can putting more kids on to lists solve anything.
Frankly it will only increase the number of kids that dont make the grade.

To me its the 2nd tier that needs more support to play a bigger part in nurturing the talent that dont get drafted

Liam Ryan (West Coast) wasnt ever in the pathway:
Ryan is from Geraldton, Western Australia. His father Darren "Snotty" Ryan played WAFL football for Claremont. Ryan began his football career with Rovers in the Great Northern Football League (GNFL). In 2016 he moved to Perth to play for the Subiaco Football Club in the West Australian Football League (WAFL).[2] Beginning in the reserves, he was moved up to the seniors after only four games, and subsequently kicked 40 goals from 16 senior games. In the 2017 WAFL season, Ryan won the Bernie Naylor Medal as the competition's leading goal-kicker. He kicked 73 goals from 23 games.[3][4]
Ryan was drafted into the AFL by West Coast with their third selection and twenty-sixth overall in the 2017 national draft.[5] He made his debut in the games versus Sydney at Optus Stadium in the opening round of the 2018 season.[6]

Liam Ryan (footballer) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Ryans AFL career hasnt been without its challenges

AFL news: Liam Ryan leaves gruelling West Coast Eagles pre-season camp early

‘He didn’t handle it too well’: Eagle leaves ‘physical’ camp early

www.foxsports.com.au

Liam Ryan involved in minor traffic incident, West Coast Eagles forward assessed in hospital

Flying Ryan crashes, hospitalised after ‘minor traffic incident’

www.foxsports.com.au

WATCH: Emotional Eagle Liam Ryan swarmed by teammates after family tragedy

WATCH: Emotional Eagle swarmed by teammates after family tragedy

www.foxsports.com.au

If extra indigenous spots were to be considered its in the 2nd tier competitions with the AFL picking up the tab.