How bad is Richmond?

[eagles_rule]

Wel everyone seems to think the Adelaide teams will finish bottom this year, but I tend to disagree. Richmond really do look shocking at the moment. They cannot even manage to beat Freo at home. They were only as close as they were because of the inaccuarcy of Freo. God help you if you lose Richardson through injury. I can't see anyone else kicking a bag for you this year.

 

[christo]

Steady on!

I don’t think freo should be used to measure how bad a team is. After all the eagles could not beat freo at home last year.

 

[The Dutchman!]

Also,

Richmond were very competitive for 3 quarters against both North and Essedon.

Fremantle have a dynamite midfield and will beat a lot better teams than Richmond this year.

All in all, a pretty stupid comment.

Dutch

 

[Eagle_Fan]

Gotta agree with Dutchy eagles_rule.

Don't you remember round 16 last year? Freo are a good team, who will do some damage once they master consistancy.

And as an Eagles fan, we're not really in a position to criticise to Richmond. Us v Them at night in Melbourne is one of the only games we can write off as a loss at the beginning of each season. And seeing that the Tigers play 17 "home" games, it's too early to discount them.

BTW/ anyone else notice the sudden influx of eagles fans? coincidence I'm sure.....

 

[Grendel]

I loathe richmond with a passion and am really glad they are crap and have been since 82'.
However to be clinical and see where andwhy they are trash in obvious. They have a backline that makes the Hawks look like the greatest delivers in history. The only kick they have back there is Cameron. The rest are truly shocking I cant believe just how bad both the Kellaways are. Gaspar is a fine stopper at chb but his foot skills are woeful. The midfield is to reliant on Knights and Campbell. Daffy thinks he is tough but goes missing as soon as any pressure is applied and if it werent for richardson (he could be scary if he ever DID really put it all together) there is nothing else to go to, maybe rogers on a good day. Ottens will be a good player but is young and will have ups and downs, hopefully the tige culture will leave its mark and he will never become the force he might be at a good club

If anyone thinks ive enjoyed pointing out the tige filths weakness your right

HEARS TO IT CONTINUING FOR MANY A DAY YET!

 

[Mark]

I think you are underestimating Fremantle here. They have shown a lot of improvement this year and have become a very "hard at it" side, which Richmond always struggle against. Freo's group of midfielders in Fletcher, Haselby, Cook and Prescott are pretty tough and get a lot of the ball. Bandy into their defence has sured that line up a bit as has Dale Kickett's good form. Up forward Waterhouse is always elusive and Fewster has added extra height. And then there's Modra who if playing in Victoria would be ranked as a top 15 player and is a genuine champion of the goalsquare.

 

[eagles_rule]

Put it this way then, who will finish below Richmond this year, I don't there will be many if any at all. Currently on the ladder they are above Hawthorn, Port Adelaide, St.Kilda and Adelaide.

Hawthorn always seem to play better in the second half of the season, god knows why.

Port Adelaide I think are beginning to show improvement with a good win over Brisbane, though it is true Brisbane would have been very tired after all the travelling.

Adelaide cannot play any worse, they will only improve, especialy when Rehn gets back to full fitness, and Ayres learns where to put the players (Ayres really is a shocking coach in terms of player position).

That leaves St.Kilda. Both these teams I predict will fight it out for the wooden spoon. I think St.Kilda can improve a lot more than Richmond. St.Kilda definitely has much more potential.

Richmond has been over-rated for years. They have been sliding not improving. They definitely have a culture problem. Anyway that is what I think, what do you others reckon?

 

[Bloodstained Angel]

Its a culture problem down at Punt Road Eagle_fan

How on earth can Spud Frawley do the best he can when he has to have one eye constantly looking over his back ?
(and one hand free to pull the knives out of it ?)

 

[sainter]

I don't think you can discount any teams at this stage.

The Kangaroos were 1 win, 3 loses (and 6 goals down against us in round 5) before recovering to win the flag last year

St Kilda were 1 win, 4 loses in 97 before being cruely denied premiership number two!

And then you can look at teams like Geelong who won the first 5 matches in 99, lost the next 9 and from memory won the last 5 too.

I find it ironic that people think they predict what is going to happen after 4 rounds of a 22 round season. There is lots of footy to come, crisis talks, more scratching allegations, law suits, biased newspaper columns in the Herald-Sun, channel 7 commentators obsessions with certain players and whatever else that could only happen in football.

By the way, I can only hope our from against the tigers in the VFL last night translates into the so-called firsts team this sunday. (113 point win)

 

[Pessimistic]

I had a spreadsheet one year which evaluated form against teams etc. It turned out to be pretty good after five rounds in terms of general finishing places but as you said. 1-3 teams will definately improve as the season goes on and a similar number go to pot. But you get the other 10 in the right order.

 

[Tiger35]

Hmmm...yes..well...Just how bad IS Richmond ?? Apparently not as bad as the 9 (yes..9..count 'em) teams below them on the ladder.

 

[Joel]

Hey people we aren't half way through the season yet! This season is warped bad, the only sure thing is that Essendon will win. And this is coming from a Pies supporter.

 

[Shinboners]

Tiger35

Well, since you wearn't sticking your neck out to defend the Tigers when we were all having a go at them, obviously you didn't believe in them either. But then again, you're probably just another Tiger fan coming back out from the woodwork.

As much as I hate Richmond, credit to Spud for how he's got his team playing.

 

[Tiger35]

Shinboner,
I only discovered this great forum for footy fans last week. I always pick Richmond in the office footy tips, even back in the dark days when the question wasn't so much "Will Richmond lose ?" but more likely "How much will they lose by ?". Sure Tigers fans come out of the woodwork when the club succeeds, but that can be said for ALL clubs.

 

[Shinboners]

Tiger35

Yeah, I'll have to take your word on that. But it still strikes me as kind of odd how a few Geelong fans suddenly popped up on this board when they had a few wins....ditto for Collingwood, and now you with Richmond. Speaking of which, has anyone heard from Power Mad lately?

 

[The Dutchman!]

No such thing as a sure thing in Footy Joel- Eagles 91 and Essendon 99 just prove it.

Gotta say I am not overly enjoying this season - the dread of something going horribly wrong is getting very heavy. I know its hard to believe when you're 9-0 but all I can think about is very poorly timed long term injuries to key players.

Time for the happy pills I think....

 

[sainter]

Shinboner,

And I found this forum at the beginning of a never ending losing streak!

Friday night left me absolutely shattered but life goes on. Having said that, being a saints supporter I am somewhat immune to the disappointment of losing but Friday was heartbreaking. Great to see Max completely devastated. Especially for a club accused of not putting in or caring about their results.

I have to say that with Anthony Stevens coming back into the team soon and a fit Leigh Colbert, the Kangaroos are being seriously underestimated. I can not believe this "Essendon is unbeatable" mentality.

 

[The Dutchman!]

Damn right Sainter...

North have really surpassed my expectations of them this year. They have injuries and suspensions and are still winning the close ones.

I had really written them off as a low top 8 falling giant but you've gotta be impressed with their sheer will to win.

That said, I think the biggest threat to Essendon at least this year is injury - always a possibility in our game - can't see complacency being a problem with the pain the club and all its supporters are carrying around after the Carlton debacle...

Also, Sainter I realise that what I said may sound arrogant to the Saints at the moment - it wasn't intended to be - after 97 I'm sure you know what I mean about having a lot to lose if everything goes pair-shaped.

Dutch

 

[Dan26]

Dutch,

You would be enjoying the season a lot more if the wins we are having actually meant something. If they contributed to winning something. (except for an overrated double chance, which, come preliminary final day, doesn't exist anyway)

I'm sure Man United supporters were enjoying their season, becasue every win they had contributed to winning the premiership. Every win got them a step closer. They didn't have the ridiculous scenario of having a "double or nothing" scenario in the Grand Final. Double or nothing sucks.

Because you're in England, who is going to win the FA Cup final coming up, between Villa and Chelsea ? You'd have to admit, it is a great season climaxing event (like our Grand Final), and becaue it is seperate to the championship, still allows ManU to be recognised for their efforts !

So, who's going to win it ?

 

[The Dutchman!]

That's one side of the coin Dan and fair dues.

The other side of the coin is that our game structure is better simply because no one really knows until that last siren blows on GF day who is going to get the crown.

The fact that I'm still nervous about injuries rather than blaise or bored by the bombers run is probably a good thing. It keeps us all interested. Particularly when one or two wins separate 3-14 places below.

I can tell you the UK Premiership has been a complete dud here this year for the very reason that it lacks a GF and finals system. Its been a Rangers style one-horse race since December. The only thing that has kept it remotely interesting has been the race for 2 and 3 for access to the European Champions League.

Key Question: Why do you think the UK Premiership system is better?

In my opinion since its inception in the early 90s the English Premier League has almost always produced dud finishes to seasons because:

1. No salary cap or draft (even the US has a draft)
2. Premiership season one-horse race.
3. No GF or finals system allows teams to focus on other things to keep things interesting - ie: Europe.

This European access factor is a weird, vexed issue (poisoned chalice) for fans. Sure it makes money but it generally hurts you in your attempts to win the title (Man U last year aside).

Chelsea has missed out on a decent Premiership result (4 or 5 is not a good return on their players) because of their focus on both the Champions League (missed out in the Qtrs of the Champions League against Barca at Nou Camp) and making the final of the FA Cup.

If they don't beat Villa they will miss out on Europe next year (even the Uefa Cup) and
win nothing for all that work.

On the other hand, Europe skews results in favour of those not competing in those comps. Liverpool have been brave this year but have played something like 15-25 less games than Man U (World Club Championships, European League) Arsenal (UEFA Cup, FA Cup, Worthington Cup), Leeds (UEFA, FA, Worthington) and Chelsea (Champions League, FA, Worthington).

Can't really remember what my point was here except to say that the English system is not that great and could, if not careful, be as lamentably one-sided and boring as the Scottish League and would neither would be so if they have a finals and GF system (like the Superbowl, the Stanley Cup, The World Series etc.

But to answer your question:

Chelsea should and probably will win. Reasons:
1. Great list
2. They know how to win it - won one a few years back
3. They're now out of Europe this year and out of the running for places next year they'd better do something to salvage their season.

Reasons against:
1. Really crap conversion rate from their strikers (esp Chris Sutton)
2. Tiredness after a long season.

Then again even the FA CUP is arguably not the prize it has been this year - compared to standing in Europe at least. I certainly don't rate it as anywhere near comparable to our GF - Man U's voluntary absence from it this year confirms this.

Sorry for the ramble.
Dutch

 

[Grendel]

You must be tired Dutch if you call Sutton a striker!

How are the Orient going? Last i heard they looked like going to the confernce leagues

 

[Bloodstained Angel]

Hey Dutchman

Can I get my English soccer request in as well ?

Whats happening to Crystal Palace ?

Are they bankrupt ?
Will they be able to put a team up next year ?
Has Goldberg finally gone ? (hope so)
Will the Chinese bail the club out ?
Will Steve Coppell still manage the team ?

Oh and congrats to Ipswich and Man City on promotion to the Premiership - not that it matters of course because the Premier League is little more than a Man U benfit these days.

cheers

 

[Shinboners]

BA

Ipswich Town have not been promoted. They have to go into the playoffs along with Barnsley, Birmingham City, and Bolton Wanderers. Charlton Athletic and Manchester Shitty got the automatic promotion spots.

Cheers
Shinboners

 

[sainter]

Dutchy, no offence taken.

The reality is that we are playing with no confidence and will not win a game until we get it back.

But it is good that you are a little cautious. Having the best on paper and playing the best footy doesn't mean much now if you don't go on with it. (I still think you will go all the way but it is by no means the certainty that others have claimed)

And regarding the premier league/1st division, I have always followed it but without a team until my hatred of Manchester United got the better of me. Hence, after looking at the 1st division ladder and seeing that Man City were near the top, I have barracked for them all season. They have a couple of Aussies too which is a good thing.

Looking forward to the local derbys next year.

 

[The Dutchman!]

Don't know how Orient are going but will get back to you on that one.

Crystal Palace were right on the edge - a financial basket-case - not quite as leveraged as Real Madrid but really on the verge of extinction. But I'm pretty sure the FA has approved a survival package this year and new owners - again I'll look into it.

How unlucky are Ipswich? They are the Buffalo Bills of the first division. I, for one, will be amazed if they get through this latest (4 on the trot) play-off round for the 3rd Premiership slot.

I agree its good for the game to have ManC back in - huge supporter base - couple of Oz players and everyone hates ManU.

I predict, what with Noel Gallagher's ties with the club, they will be the new "glamour" side of the competition within 5 years.

Incidently, I support the Gunners for the following reasons:
1. Long term character and grit (famous back 4)
2. Gunners, Bombers - not a lot of diff there.
3) I live nearby.
4) Fever Pitch reminds me of Windy Hill in the late 70's every 80's.

We were pretty honest this year - clear 2nd two years running (remember we only lost by 1 point last year). In the Uefa Cup final next week. Plus Ray Parlour rocks!

Need to get some Aussies though...