How bad was the umpiring against Sydney

joeblow2

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Thread starter #1
Just getting in early. No doubt someone will want to have a crack at the umpires next week, so the thread is ready.
It seems we have been blaming the umpires alot lately, and while they haven't been great, the real issues are alot closer to home. St. Kilda has had the chance to put teams away 4 times in the past 5 weeks: Collingwood (faded and lost from 4 goals up), Adelaide (faded and fell in), Carlton (faded, but they're tanking and had to pull up) and Bulldogs (faded from 4 goals up and drew). This is the issue. Are we not fit enough? Hell, it's round 18. Are we mentally weak? Maybe. Whatever the reason, it needs to be addressed, and now. There is no point making finals if we are going to get smashed week 1, and that's what'll happen if the current form is carried in. Mind you, current form won't get us there so it won't matter.
 

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Rough_Edges

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#2
5-1-1 in our past 7 games.

We have recovered from 4-7 to be a genuine finals contender.

If we win 3 more, we'll make finals.
 

DST

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#3
You will be hard pressed to get a raw deal against us, we are public enemy number one when it comes to umpires, which is strange considering we are a relatively disciplined side.

While I don't agree free kick counts should be equal the following statistic showing free kick difference for each team from 2005 to round 18 2007 makes for interesting reading:

West Coast +207
Kangaroos +167
Carlton +110
St.Kilda +93
Collingwood +87
Richmond +48
Essendon +40
Brisbane +27
Geelong -8
Melbourne -8
Western Bulldogs -18
Port Adelaide -57
Adelaide -97
Fremantle -111
Hawthorn -144
Sydney -240

Umpires this week are Donlon, McClaren and McIerney.

DST
:D
 
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#4
Go loook at some of the decisions in the St Kilda and Collingwood game and then you will see how a rough deal looks...a couple of shockers in that game, to both sides!!!
 
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#6
Just getting in early. No doubt someone will want to have a crack at the umpires next week, so the thread is ready.
It seems we have been blaming the umpires alot lately, and while they haven't been great, the real issues are alot closer to home. St. Kilda has had the chance to put teams away 4 times in the past 5 weeks: Collingwood (faded and lost from 4 goals up), Adelaide (faded and fell in), Carlton (faded, but they're tanking and had to pull up) and Bulldogs (faded from 4 goals up and drew). This is the issue. Are we not fit enough? Hell, it's round 18. Are we mentally weak? Maybe. Whatever the reason, it needs to be addressed, and now. There is no point making finals if we are going to get smashed week 1, and that's what'll happen if the current form is carried in. Mind you, current form won't get us there so it won't matter.
Totally agree joeblow2. Great thread.

Whilst we have only been defeated once in the last 7 we havn't played particularly well in some of those wins (which can be seen as a good thing too!). Im not sure if our failure to run out games is a fitness issue or a mental toughness issue. In the adelaide and west coast games we were resillient in the closing minutes with some of our players seemingly jogging on the spot. Against the WB we still seemed somewhat fit towards the end but we turned the ball over a number of times and got punished. We were also undisciplined.

The only thing i dont agree with is "There is no point making finals if we are going to get smashed week 1". I disagree. Making finals would be a great achievement considering where we were before the West Coast game earlier in the year. Also, it would be only the 2nd time in our history that we've made the finals 4 years in a row. Although im sure we wouldve all had bigger hopes for the saints this year than just scraping into the 8, im sure most supporters would like to see us do that than miss out on September action altogether.
 

joeblow2

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Totally agree joeblow2. Great thread.

Whilst we have only been defeated once in the last 7 we havn't played particularly well in some of those wins (which can be seen as a good thing too!). Im not sure if our failure to run out games is a fitness issue or a mental toughness issue. In the adelaide and west coast games we were resillient in the closing minutes with some of our players seemingly jogging on the spot. Against the WB we still seemed somewhat fit towards the end but we turned the ball over a number of times and got punished. We were also undisciplined.

The only thing i dont agree with is "There is no point making finals if we are going to get smashed week 1". I disagree. Making finals would be a great achievement considering where we were before the West Coast game earlier in the year. Also, it would be only the 2nd time in our history that we've made the finals 4 years in a row. Although im sure we wouldve all had bigger hopes for the saints this year than just scraping into the 8, im sure most supporters would like to see us do that than miss out on September action altogether.
Absolutely agree. I just think that for three quarters of the aforementioned games I believe we have been playing the sort of football that will make us competetive with any team, anywhere. If we can carry that for 4 quarters we can go a long way into September. The point I am trying to make, badly, but trying, is that we should be expecting to make the finals and be hard to beat and you can't do that playing three quarters of good footy. We just won't get away with it in September.
 

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You will be hard pressed to get a raw deal against us, we are public enemy number one when it comes to umpires, which is strange considering we are a relatively disciplined side.

While I don't agree free kick counts should be equal the following statistic showing free kick difference for each team from 2005 to round 18 2007 makes for interesting reading:

West Coast +207
Kangaroos +167
Carlton +110
St.Kilda +93
Collingwood +87
Richmond +48
Essendon +40
Brisbane +27
Geelong -8
Melbourne -8
Western Bulldogs -18
Port Adelaide -57
Adelaide -97
Fremantle -111
Hawthorn -144
Sydney -240

Umpires this week are Donlon, McClaren and McIerney.

DST
:D
The Swans get as many free kicks as can be expected (slightly above average for the AFL) - but have way too many given against them. You say you are a relatively disciplined side, and while this is true, it is that very diciplined style of play that ends up costing you. The Swans are one of the most patient sides whilst in possession of the ball, but when you don't have it you are willing to take considerable risks in trying to regain it. It is the style of play that YOU choose to play that causes the apparent inequity in the free kick count that you have.
 

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#9
You will be hard pressed to get a raw deal against us, we are public enemy number one when it comes to umpires, which is strange considering we are a relatively disciplined side.

While I don't agree free kick counts should be equal the following statistic showing free kick difference for each team from 2005 to round 18 2007 makes for interesting reading:

West Coast +207
Kangaroos +167
Carlton +110
St.Kilda +93
Collingwood +87
Richmond +48
Essendon +40
Brisbane +27
Geelong -8
Melbourne -8
Western Bulldogs -18
Port Adelaide -57
Adelaide -97
Fremantle -111
Hawthorn -144
Sydney -240

Umpires this week are Donlon, McClaren and McIerney.

DST
:D
Maybe these figures show us that free kicks F/A dont matter because the top and bottom sides have played in the last 2 grannies.Maybe we should stop whinging about the umps and just get on with it,but it saying that i still think the umpires are shit.
 

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#10
Im suprised there are less posts in his thread.

Average umpiring last night. Im not blaming it for the loss, but WOW.. Adam Goodes, the new Chris Judd with umpires.
 

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#11
wel im fully prepared to blame the umpires for the loss last night. gave them at least three scoring shots from free kicks that were all touch and go. that and xavier clarks kicking made it into a pretty bad night for me.
 

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Fryman

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#13
Hah, check your stats. Goodes is like in the top 5 for frees against.
But you have to admit he has developed the habit of throwing his head back when tackled. Good luck to him if he can get away with it, but if the umpires cotton on it might be like Lloyds diving - they'll just ignore it.
 

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#14
But you have to admit he has developed the habit of throwing his head back when tackled. Good luck to him if he can get away with it, but if the umpires cotton on it might be like Lloyds diving - they'll just ignore it.

Which specific incident do you have in mind. I thought there were lots of dodgy frees given yesterday to both sides (though accept that the Swans got the slightly better deal, particularly in terms of where they got their dodgy frees). But don't recall any dodginess surrounding any Goodes' frees - and there was one clear case on the wing right in front of me where he got a fair whack across the face/neck and the umpire called play-on.
 
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#15
Whilst im not prepared to blame the loss on the umpires the two free-kicks, sydney got inside two very very questionable free-kicks inside 50, that were converted for goals, which were pretty critical in terms of the time of the game and the momentum. Dissapointing to say the least.

Was it just me or was there a definite clamp-down/interpretation change on holding-the-ball last night? To me it seemed like every single time a player (from either side) had the ball underneath him, even when it was being held in underneath by numerous other players, was given as holding-the-ball? It was a blight on such a fiercely contested match. I thought both sides got dodgy free-kicks from it.
 

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#16
Whilst im not prepared to blame the loss on the umpires the two free-kicks, sydney got inside two very very questionable free-kicks inside 50, that were converted for goals, which were pretty critical in terms of the time of the game and the momentum. Dissapointing to say the least.

Was it just me or was there a definite clamp-down/interpretation change on holding-the-ball last night? To me it seemed like every single time a player (from either side) had the ball underneath him, even when it was being held in underneath by numerous other players, was given as holding-the-ball? It was a blight on such a fiercely contested match. I thought both sides got dodgy free-kicks from it.
You could see that the umpires were under instructions coming into the match - because this match was seen by the AFL to be a likely "high stoppage" match, they decided to reduce stoppages by lowering the holding the ball threshold.
 

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#17
I was more worried about several frees being paid for high tackles (Kirk and Matthews come to mind) when either the tackle was not high to even begin with, or the player (kirk) ducked the tackle, only to have a slap around the shoulders. He ducked, its play on.
 

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#18
I was more worried about several frees being paid for high tackles (Kirk and Matthews come to mind) when either the tackle was not high to even begin with, or the player (kirk) ducked the tackle, only to have a slap around the shoulders. He ducked, its play on.
Added to this is the decision against Dal santo! Clearly a high hit by Hall....and yet the Swans get a holding the ball decsion...25 meters out!
 

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#19
Added to this is the decision against Dal santo! Clearly a high hit by Hall....and yet the Swans get a holding the ball decsion...25 meters out!
Well said Half Back Pocket. That decision was the most disgracefull decision I have ever seen in League Football. I walked out of the pub after that one.

I would love to ask the umpire if after seeing the replay he still thinks he got it right or if he acknowledges that he made a mistake. The ball had bounced up high and was loose. Dal pounced on it by jumping in the air to take possesion. At exactly the same time that ar$hole Hall hit him in the head, if not with his elbow definitelty with his forearm. Dal was stunned and fell to the ground. The umpire gave holding the ball and Sydney got the goal at the most critical time in the 3rd quarter. Hall should have been reported!!!!!

Then, about 5 minutes later in the 3rd, I can't remember who it was, one of our players was on the ground fighting for the ball. The ball temporarily was underneath our player. He managed to knock it out but the Sydney player who was on top of him deliberately dragged it underneath our player and then tackled him. The umpire fell for it and gave holding the ball against us.

After this decision I knew we were not going to win and stormed out of the pub for the last time. Those 2 decisions broke us!!!!! Those umpires should go to hell!!!!!!
 

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#22
I don't like posting in these types of threads but the thing that I can't stand about umpires and I said it many times at the game on Saturday night is when they make things up. In this case I don't mind doing it because I still don't think they cost us the match and it doesn't mask my continued disappointment at my own teams players in again failing to win a game that was there for the taking.

On to the umpires, surely they are only under instruction to blow the whistle when they see something rather than just guess. The high tackle on Mathews for example. It wasn't high. It wasn't over the shoulder. So the only feasible explanation was that the umpire guessed. Those kind of decisions right in front of goal in a low scoring game kill you. It's the same for those contentious holding the ball decisions. Surely the umpire has to see a player drag the ball in themselves to call it. We had instances where the ball was kicked off the ground and landed underneath a player already on the ground and an opposition player dragging it back in and then getting the free kick.

The thing that pissed me off over the Hall hit on Dal Santo was that the umpire was only metres away and had an unimpeded view of the incident. At the game I thought he mustn't have seen it from his angle. Surely the AFL can't go around telling everybody that the head is sacrosant and then allow a guy while he is being tackled with his arms pinned to be hit in the head by another opponent only to have him called holding the ball.
 

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#23
Don't normally like whinging about umpiring ... but Saturday night was shocking

Not sure if the umpires get sucked in or swept up in the home ground crowd.... but there were too many decisions that were just plain wrong.

Dal's, was clearly head high contact, they get a goal from it & in a close game that can really change things.

Whilst Sydney supporters will say that the free kick count was even .... that is not the point. the point is that the inconsitency was shocking, and the inaccuracy in adjudicating on the rules was just mind blowing.

You just can not ping holding the ball on someone when there is a) no prior opportunity b) unable to dispose of the ball because his head has been knocked off.

Roos spoke to the AFL about Sydney's "shocking run". Will Ross Lyon query what happened on Saturday night?
 

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#24
For those who are whinging about the umpiring put yourselves in the shoes of an umpire and try and do their job. You will find that it is as hard as buggery and here you guys are whinging about them doing their job.
 

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#25
I don't like posting in these types of threads but the thing that I can't stand about umpires and I said it many times at the game on Saturday night is when they make things up. In this case I don't mind doing it because I still don't think they cost us the match and it doesn't mask my continued disappointment at my own teams players in again failing to win a game that was there for the taking.

On to the umpires, surely they are only under instruction to blow the whistle when they see something rather than just guess. The high tackle on Mathews for example. It wasn't high. It wasn't over the shoulder. So the only feasible explanation was that the umpire guessed. Those kind of decisions right in front of goal in a low scoring game kill you. It's the same for those contentious holding the ball decisions. Surely the umpire has to see a player drag the ball in themselves to call it. We had instances where the ball was kicked off the ground and landed underneath a player already on the ground and an opposition player dragging it back in and then getting the free kick.

The thing that pissed me off over the Hall hit on Dal Santo was that the umpire was only metres away and had an unimpeded view of the incident. At the game I thought he mustn't have seen it from his angle. Surely the AFL can't go around telling everybody that the head is sacrosant and then allow a guy while he is being tackled with his arms pinned to be hit in the head by another opponent only to have him called holding the ball.
I think that you will find that the umpire couldn't actually see the incident as he was watching where the ball was at the time. Anyway it was a good bump.
It was holding the ball because he didn't get rid of the ball. Not because of the bump or the heavy hit that he got. You go to local footy and you will find that most players get given holding the ball when they have been chased down from behind and they have been bumped and have been penalised.
 
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