Toast How can this Melbourne side be stopped?

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Goshka

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Not really very relevant to when you were 1 flag, one missed flag, and a worse predicament than Melbourne are in now though is it?
Melbourne’s situation and ours is not comparable. Not sure why you keep bringing up our dynasty and trying to lump them with a proven great team. Long way to go for the Dees and they look in serious trouble with a fit list. We only looked vulnerable when we had injuries but we banked enough Ws to finish top four and win the flag.

We’ll see how Demons go if they cop what we did when we lost a few games on the trot. If they had half a 22 missing they’d crumble is all I’m saying.

Also, I know you’ve got a lot of built up anger from the 2020 flag loss, but there’s no need to get nasty with Richmond supporters. We didn’t deny your club a flag. Our team did. Just relax a little, pal.
 

PhatBoy

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Melbourne’s situation and ours is not comparable. Not sure why you keep bringing up our dynasty and trying to lump them with a proven great team. Long way to go for the Dees and they look in serious trouble with a fit list. We only looked vulnerable when we had injuries but we banked enough Ws to finish top four and win the flag.

We’ll see how Demons go if they cop what we did when we lost a few games on the trot. If they had half a 22 missing they’d crumble is all I’m saying.

Also, I know you’ve got a lot of built up anger from the 2020 flag loss, but there’s no need to get nasty with Richmond supporters. We didn’t deny your club a flag. Our team did. Just relax a little, pal.


Yes it’s truly f***en bizarre why I would look at a comparison between Richmond and Melbourne after reading you post this:

‘Not the point I am making. Comparing Richmond’s dynasty list to Melbourne’s flash in the pan list is absolutely laughable. There’s a reason we won three flags and there’s a reason why they’ve been exposed after one.’


The easiest giveaway that you are a simpleton is equating any criticism or reality checking if your team, to some perceived grudge the other person has against your side. Which I don’t.

I don’t read every criticism of the Cats from a Tigers fan as a consequence of the fact that for 20 years we were Ike Turner’s fist to Richmond’s Tina Turner. I read it as someone who is either correct or incorrect in what they are saying.


We were humiliated by Carlton in a grand final when I was younger. We were beaten twice by West Coast when I was younger. Nick Davis fluked his way through the only memorable 20 minutes of football of his career to end our season in 2005 and won a flag a few weeks later. It doesn’t mean every criticism of Carlton, West Coast or Sydney is borne out of those disappointments and claiming that it is, is telling the world your brain is either very lazy or very underused.


You made a claim that the current predicament of Melbourne - who are 9-3 for the season mind you - is a sign that they are a flash in the pan side who is vastly inferior to what the mighty Tigers were.

Yet Melbourne are STILL the premiers - the mighty tigers dynasty by this same point was a few months out from a finals meltdown, and a year later still, they were 7-6 and on the back end of a terrible 3 match flogging streak.

So in what world of logic and reason can you sit there and call the current premiers a flash in the pan when they haven’t even had the chance to FAIL like Richmond did before they turned it around?
 

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Goshka

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Yes it’s truly f***en bizarre why I would look at a comparison between Richmond and Melbourne after reading you post this:

‘Not the point I am making. Comparing Richmond’s dynasty list to Melbourne’s flash in the pan list is absolutely laughable. There’s a reason we won three flags and there’s a reason why they’ve been exposed after one.’


The easiest giveaway that you are a simpleton is equating any criticism or reality checking if your team, to some perceived grudge the other person has against your side. Which I don’t.

I don’t read every criticism of the Cats from a Tigers fan as a consequence of the fact that for 20 years we were Ike Turner’s fist to Richmond’s Tina Turner. I read it as someone who is either correct or incorrect in what they are saying.


We were humiliated by Carlton in a grand final when I was younger. We were beaten twice by West Coast when I was younger. Nick Davis fluked his way through the only memorable 20 minutes of football of his career to end our season in 2005 and won a flag a few weeks later. It doesn’t mean every criticism of Carlton, West Coast or Sydney is borne out of those disappointments and claiming that it is, is telling the world your brain is either very lazy or very underused.


You made a claim that the current predicament of Melbourne - who are 9-3 for the season mind you - is a sign that they are a flash in the pan side who is vastly inferior to what the mighty Tigers were.

Yet Melbourne are STILL the premiers - the mighty tigers dynasty by this same point was a few months out from a finals meltdown, and a year later still, they were 7-6 and on the back end of a terrible 3 match flogging streak.

So in what world of logic and reason can you sit there and call the current premiers a flash in the pan when they haven’t even had the chance to FAIL like Richmond did before they turned it around?
Too long, bro. I just landed in Cairns. Off to Port Douglas for a week so not sure if I’ll have time to read your essay. I’m sure it’s riveting though.
 

Kanye West

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And that had happened in some magical space time continuum in which those flags were already on the Punt Road flagpoles when you had just been belted 3 times in a row in mid 2019 had it?

That’s an interesting interpretation

They had much better form at that stage than the dees in 2022. GF & Prelim (as you've said) then played 5 of that years finalists before that run of 3 loses!
 

PhatBoy

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They had much better form at that stage than the dees in 2022. GF & Prelim (as you've said) then played 5 of that years finalists before that run of 3 loses!


And went 7-6, not 9-3, and were belted by and average of 8 goals in the 3 straight losses, and only the loss to Geelong in that sequence was against a side who would play finals that year.

There is no metric under which you could claim that Richmond were in better form at that juncture

Not sure how
 

PhatBoy

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Calm down. I’ll give your post a like so it wasn’t a complete waste of time. Other posters will think I’ve read it as well. Problem solved, bud.


Mate telling the world you don’t have a meaningful reply by saying ‘it’s too long for me to take the 45 seconds necessary to read it’ doesn’t magically give you the upper hand in a discussion.

Address the point or don’t make the claim in the first place
 

Goshka

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Mate telling the world you don’t have a meaningful reply by saying ‘it’s too long for me to take the 45 seconds necessary to read it’ doesn’t magically give you the upper hand in a discussion.

Address the point or don’t make the claim in the first place
I’m trying to do us both a favour. You get the like and I don’t have to read your inane drivel. Win win.
 

nineteen eighty

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FFS can we bring this back to a Melbourne discussion. Plenty of other threads where Tiger and Cats supporters can scratch at each other.

Let it go!

Now where were we? Ah yes, so what we basically have left is..."our best is better than anyone else's best...we just haven't shown it yet. But when we do, look out".

Or words to that effect.
 

Kanye West

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And went 7-6, not 9-3, and were belted by and average of 8 goals in the 3 straight losses, and only the loss to Geelong in that sequence was against a side who would play finals that year.

There is no metric under which you could claim that Richmond were in better form at that juncture

Not sure how

It shows that they had a little more credibility in the bank to make claims they could play better than they were at that stage. Melbourne have many more question marks right now!
 

danster168

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The real question is, what kind of depth have they got at the Dees? Seems if you take a player or 2 out of their best 22, they struggle.
Meanwhile, Freo, Lions and Blues have been covering for players all year.

I know the Blues have had one of the longest injury lists and have used a lot of players, but I'm not sure on the other top 4 teams in terms of players used.
it's a fair call. Steven May is our most important player. All-Australian full back. He hasnt played in any of our losses. Bit its not just him. Petty, Gawn were banged up yday and petracca is playing through injury. Tom McDonald out also
 

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PhatBoy

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FFS can we bring this back to a Melbourne discussion. Plenty of other threads where Tiger and Cats supporters can scratch at each other.

Let it go!

Now where were we? Ah yes, so what we basically have left is..."our best is better than anyone else's best...we just haven't shown it yet. But when we do, look out".

Or words to that effect.


That’s the exact point, though.

Melbourne isn’t in some suddenly never before seen situation where a heavy competition favourite or reigning champion hits a stumbling block.

Teams have hit back from the same situation countless times before. It doesn’t suddenly mean Melbourne can’t do the same.
 

PhatBoy

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It shows that they had a little more credibility in the bank to make claims they could play better than they were at that stage. Melbourne have many more question marks right now!


How, at that point, with the same amount of flags as Melbourne, and a worse record, did they have more credibility at that stage?

In hindsight? They went on to win two more flags, but those flags didn’t go back in time and give them more credibility 13 games into 2019
 

nineteen eighty

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That’s the exact point, though.

Melbourne isn’t in some suddenly never before seen situation where a heavy competition favourite or reigning champion hits a stumbling block.

Teams have hit back from the same situation countless times before. It doesn’t suddenly mean Melbourne can’t do the same.

Sure. I get your point and agree. They won all those games straight this year without a properly functioning forward line. They were always going to be put under pressure at some point. And finals are not won by teams who don't have a functioning forward line. Other than West Coast in 05 who won a flag with Ash Hanson leading their forward line. That's an outlier though and due to their unbelievable midfield at the time.

They have plenty of time to turn it around. I do take exception though to being told by Melbourne supporters that they are the best team in it when clearly they're not. Other teams are also in this up to their eyeballs.

And if I hear one more Melbourne supporter talk about increased training loads, I'm going to spew.
 

PhatBoy

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Sure. I get your point and agree. They won all those games straight this year without a properly functioning forward line. They were always going to be put under pressure at some point. And finals are not won by teams who don't have a functioning forward line. Other than West Coast in 05 who won a flag with Ash Hanson leading their forward line. That's an outlier though and due to their unbelievable midfield at the time.

They have plenty of time to turn it around. I do take exception though to being told by Melbourne supporters that they are the best team in it when clearly they're not. Other teams are also in this up to their eyeballs.

And if I hear one more Melbourne supporter talk about increased training loads, I'm going to spew.


Until someone proves otherwise, they are.

There are hints that teams may be better - but the only thing that makes that hint a reality, is for them to do it later in the year. Sure, if Melbourne lose another 3 and fall to the middle of the ladder then I think it’s safe to say they are quite simply not that good anymore. But it hasn’t happened yet so it’s just as likely that this is a blip
 

Kanye West

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How, at that point, with the same amount of flags as Melbourne, and a worse record, did they have more credibility at that stage?

In hindsight? They went on to win two more flags, but those flags didn’t go back in time and give them more credibility 13 games into 2019

You wrote how, 2.5 seasons for 1 premiership and 1 prelim vs 1.5 seasons for 1 premiership. It's not hard to comprehend!
 

tiger_tough

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No May, no Dees. It's pretty clear after the last 3 weeks he is the player that needs to be targeted first for opposition clubs. Their defense looks pretty dour without him back there. The forward line is below par when their midfield isn't dominating, which they haven't of late. Tmac is a pretty average player in isolation but is very important for their structure so he will be a big loss, especially when Weideman and Brown are next in line. Both are poor footballers.

Which players have genuinely improved this season on last? Langdon, Brayshaw, Jordan maybe? There's a lot ore that have gone the other way.

I'm still backing them in for the flag but they'd want to straighten up soon before the doubts creep in. Injuries will play a big part too. Probably had the best injury run in history last year. If May, Gawn or Oliver miss a chunk on the way home they will be up against it.

Darren Burgess is clearly being missed dearly too, they can't seem to run out games this year where they dominated late in games last season.
 

PhatBoy

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You wrote how, 2.5 seasons for 1 premiership and 1 prelim vs 1.5 seasons for 1 premiership. It's not hard to comprehend!


So in other words they’d started getting worse and were then slightly over 50-50 midway through another campaign. I don’t see how that’s any different.

Melbourne literally haven’t had enough time to fail like Richmond did just yet. How can they have that counted against them?

Based on that criteria Geelong might as well be considered more proven than Melbourne
 

Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods

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it's a fair call. Steven May is our most important player. All-Australian full back. He hasnt played in any of our losses. Bit its not just him. Petty, Gawn were banged up yday and petracca is playing through injury. Tom McDonald out also
West Coast the obvious outlier with 43 players used.
Carlton equal 2nd worst with 36 used (Dogs, Bombers, Crows).
Freo and Lions have both used 33, which is about middle of the road.
Dees have used a league low 31 players (Saints 32).

Carlton's injury list is looking a bit better, but still has 12 listed. Cerra will now be added to that and there's still a few big players with decent time left. Weitering, Cerra, Pittonet, Williams and McGovern would be walk up best 22. With Ed Curnow, Cuningham and McDonald fringe.

Brisbane only have 3, with 2 being listed as test and one of those is Daniher.

Freo have 10. 4 listed as test (2 of those for COVID). Taberner and Walters probably the biggest names.

Melbourne have 7, with May, Smith and McDonald being the obvious best 22.

So Melbourne's depth hasn't really been tested until recent weeks with May and McDonald.
And Brisbane has probably had it the easiest of the other top 4.

The actual answer to the question might be injury/depth.
 

Kanye West

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So in other words they’d started getting worse and were then slightly over 50-50 midway through another campaign. I don’t see how that’s any different.

Melbourne literally haven’t had enough time to fail like Richmond did just yet. How can they have that counted against them?

Based on that criteria Geelong might as well be considered more proven than Melbourne

Exactly, so how can anyone know that they will "definitely" get better, because Melbourne fans tell us?

This is how it counts against them!

It shows that they had a little more credibility in the bank to make claims they could play better than they were at that stage. Melbourne have many more question marks right now!
 

PhatBoy

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Exactly, so how can anyone know that they will "definitely" get better, because Melbourne fans tell us?

This is how it counts against them!


I haven’t read anyone actually say that I’ve read people say it’s too early to write them off which is precisely what I was commenting on in the first place
 

nineteen eighty

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Until someone proves otherwise, they are.

There are hints that teams may be better - but the only thing that makes that hint a reality, is for them to do it later in the year. Sure, if Melbourne lose another 3 and fall to the middle of the ladder then I think it’s safe to say they are quite simply not that good anymore. But it hasn’t happened yet so it’s just as likely that this is a blip

Ok I get they are the reigning premiers and all but when I checked the ladder this morning, they were not on top. They are second. Now I know there is a long way to go to seasons end but right now, at this point in time, they are not the best team in the comp.

They won 10 straight...all bar 1 against teams outside the 8. You can say they are the best team a million times and the facts will say otherwise each and every time.

If you don't believe me, here take a look as things stand today:

 

gouki88

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Mate telling the world you don’t have a meaningful reply by saying ‘it’s too long for me to take the 45 seconds necessary to read it’ doesn’t magically give you the upper hand in a discussion.

Address the point or don’t make the claim in the first place
It's not his fault he's illiterate
 

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