How close are Hawthorn to a flag?

[Yoda_]

An Essendon supporter throwing shade on another club’s B&F winner right now. It’s simply too good to be true.

a swing and a miss pal, grab a 3 - wood and try again

 

[Yoda_]

There's a lot of room for improvement....lot!! Yet, this is after making a prelim. So, Oppo teams are just going to improve but not Hawthorn?? Yea, I guess this is the same mob minds that were adamant Hawks won't make finals for ten years just 18 months ago.
Or that , 2024 was nothing but a sugar hit. Or that Jeremy Cameron is 10 years younger than Gunston??
Maybe, it's more to do with people hoping/coping with the fact that why can't Hawthorn rebuild for two/three decades like most clubs and just **** off and not be relevant?? Just maybe...

the argument is based on 33 year old Gunston having another PB season, on Hawks having 17 players play 22 or more games (= 2nd most).

If McKenzie,Weddle, Ward, McDonald etc can take a step on the back of Gunston, Barrass etc.

 

[Yoda_]

9th in average age, hardly old is it? Smack bang in the middle. Lucky we didn't get that 30 year old of yours than ay? Would have really pushed us over the edge.

average age is a wank, Essendon were apparently older but dig deeper and see we had Goldstein play most weeks and thats why.

 

[Yoda_]

butting heads with some of these Hawks supporters and Will Day is simply Jordan Ridley

14

Jordan Ridley

Age

27

Ht

195cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.6

4star

K

11.1

4star

HB

4.5

3star

M

6.4

5star

T

1.7

4star

MG

244.8

4star

D

17.0

4star

K

11.9

5star

HB

5.1

3star

M

6.7

5star

T

1.7

3star

MG

265.4

4star

D

13.8

4star

K

9.6

4star

HB

4.2

4star

M

5.2

5star

T

1.4

4star

MG

208.2

4star

in a Hawks jumper.

An exceptional player WHEN FIT but one whom you cant trust for a full season. The world knows it but we just dont see it enough. Get him fit and he becomes a bonus and not someone you can build around with such recurring injuries

 

[gbatman]

Hawks went fishing with all the good gear and fancy lures this season and came home empty handed. They lose some players and gained nothing. I think they needed to land a few top senior players to take the jump next season so I expect they may be in a holding pattern.

There was always a lot of criticism about them not having a heap of early draft picks and yet they rose to a finals side that was fairly solid. Perhaps this could be their limiting factor? Who knows.

They would have been right up there had they landed Merrett.

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

butting heads with some of these Hawks supporters and Will Day is simply Jordan Ridley in a Hawks jumper.

An exceptional player WHEN FIT but one whom you cant trust for a full season. The world knows it but we just dont see it enough. Get him fit and he becomes a bonus and not someone you can build around with such recurring injuries

He's ceiling is miles higher than Ridley but I get what your saying. He was BOG at quarter time against the Crows in his last match and our midfield looked formidable because of it. Than gets injured in the 2nd quarter and is hampered the rest of the match. ATM it's a tease. If he gets it right were probably going to ease him back into it anyway. Play him off half back and see how he's foot handles it. He would be a gun in that role too but is too valuable in the coalface
Probably needs to get bigger to put less stress on his lower body.

 

[Angus Young]

Close.

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

I do worry about Day shown patches of being a very good player, but the navicular bone is the hardest bone to heal for an AFL player due to lack of blood flow, Hawks need to be extra sure its healed even if it means he misses large part of the season.

He's won a best and fairest so it's not patches hes established he's a very good player when playing every week. Opening round this year they sent James Jordan to him. Newcombe doesn't get tagged if Day is there.

 

[T2B_]

If you could magically fix Day's and Lewis' injury concerns, they would already be there abouts IMO.

Still, if they could get even half a season reliably out of each of them it would help. Man, the relative fragility of the human body sucks especially when it cruels very good players.

 

[Yoda_]

He's ceiling is miles higher than Ridley but I get what your saying. He was BOG at quarter time against the Crows in his last match and our midfield looked formidable because of it. Than gets injured in the 2nd quarter and is hampered the rest of the match. ATM it's a tease. If he gets it right were probably going to ease him back into it anyway. Play him off half back and see how he's foot handles it. He would be a gun in that role too but is too valuable in the coalface
Probably needs to get bigger to put less stress on his lower body.

im not going into a pissing contest but Ridley could be as much as one of the best defenders in the comp as Day could be one of the best mids in the comp. No arguments from me. Day could be a better player if your suggesting overall ranking (mids always get ranked higher sans the absolute elite defenders/forwards)

 

[Yoda_]

If you could magically fix Day's and Lewis' injury concerns, they would already be there abouts IMO.

Still, if they could get even half a season reliably out of each of them it would help. Man, the relative fragility of the human body sucks especially when it cruels very good players.

Essendon for years built teams around injured players.

We built midfields around Darcy Parish who seems unable to get fit, Sam Draper continually missed chunks, Kyle Langford misses chunks at a time. Jordan Ridley as well.

Are Hawthorn doing the same thing with Day? with Lewis? very good players when fit but pushing into the bonus zone if they ever do.... get fit

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

Essendon for years built teams around injured players.

We built midfields around Darcy Parish who seems unable to get fit, Sam Draper continually missed chunks, Kyle Langford misses chunks at a time. Jordan Ridley as well.

Are Hawthorn doing the same thing with Day? with Lewis? very good players when fit but pushing into the bonus zone if they ever do.... get fit

Lewis got a good run at it the backend of the year. Played about 10 games in a row and was moving well. Hopefully he gets a full pre season because that's when we should see consistent output next year. Likewise with Dear. If both are injury free the forward line mix is good even if Gunston has a dip in his form.

 

[Yoda_]

Lewis got a good run at it the backend of the year. Played about 10 games in a row and was moving well. Hopefully he gets a full pre season because that's when we should see consistent output next year. Likewise with Dear. If both are injury free the forward line mix is good even if Gunston has a dip in his form.

dont get me wrong, the guys can play (Lewis and Will Day) but dont get sucked in by the 'what if'. It will seduce you to trust an untrustworthy player

 

[matey]

This thread a classic summer one for the regulars to come back and hang s**t on the Hawks. This same time two years ago I bet they were also the ones that had the Hawks pencilled in to win the wooden spoon in 24.

We are building nicely and the group is starting to play a lot of footy together under Sam’s leadership/his lieutenants so definitely expecting more improvement from a TEAM perspective. Rome wasn’t built in a day

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

If you could magically fix Day's and Lewis' injury concerns, they would already be there abouts IMO.

Still, if they could get even half a season reliably out of each of them it would help. Man, the relative fragility of the human body sucks especially when it cruels very good players.

Day and Lewis will both have full preseasons, touch wood.

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

dont get me wrong, the guys can play (Lewis and Will Day) but dont get sucked in by the 'what if'. It will seduce you to trust an untrustworthy player

We apparently fixed his knee issues he's been having for a while with the ACL surgery. Partially tore it a couple of years back and it appeared to cause him problems up until he did it properly last year. Moving as well as he has for a few years ATM just needs to integrate back into a full pre season program not a rehab one like this year.

 

[HairyO]

If you could magically fix Day's and Lewis' injury concerns, they would already be there abouts IMO.

Still, if they could get even half a season reliably out of each of them it would help. Man, the relative fragility of the human body sucks especially when it cruels very good players.

Lewis could well fully recover.

Day is the worry as its an injury that is not commonly fully recoverable. Not needing surgery is promising but its up to 8 months recovery and even then can return.

Youd hope we spend the preseason working on a health plan.

Cyril used to get regularly muscle injuries and over a preseason literally changed his running style. Hopefully Day has something like this. He has missed way too much football.

 

[Yoda_]

Lewis could well fully recover.

Day is the worry as its an injury that is not commonly fully recoverable. Not needing surgery is promising but its up to 8 months recovery and even then can return.

Youd hope we spend the preseason working on a health plan.

Cyril used to get regularly muscle injuries and over a preseason literally changed his running style. Hopefully Day has something like this. He has missed way too much football.

He isnt going to die, James Hird managed to come back form it and won a premiership,

 

[HairyO]

He isnt going to die, James Hird managed to come back form it and won a premiership,

I think its more when it returns, rather thsn a one off injury. And even without it Dsy has had other serious injuries.

His body simply may not be enough for AFL level. And I dont think he is the type who can play at 90%.

 

[ReturningHawk]

a swing and a miss pal, grab a 3 - wood and try again

Your presence here says it all

 

[Vindicater]

I think its more when it returns, rather thsn a one off injury. And even without it Dsy has had other serious injuries.

His body simply may not be enough for AFL level. And I dont think he is the type who can play at 90%.

Hird has to manage it for the rest of his career and became a little more of a break glass type player for us who rotated through a range of positions.

I could see you doing the same with Day. Sit him in the backline for large parts with some bursts through the middle or up forward for a different look. Full time mid minutes with the twisting, turning and amount of power going through the foot all the time might break him again.

 

[Blackhawk42]

Interesting, the initial point I made and reiterated was that teams around the Hawks have more internal development.

Hawthorn do have a bunch of 30yo key players in comparison to the teams I named.

You brought up your “young core” but are unwilling to compare that to similar teams?

Is it because you agree that the Hawks young core doesn’t stack up and thus they need/ed to trade in a midfielder to help them compete?

Weddle, Dear, Watson, Ward, MacKenzie, Butler, MacDonald, Ginnivan, Day, Newcombe, D’Ambrossio
Vs

Anderson, Rowell, Humphrey, Walter, Read, Mac Andrew, Davies, Graham, Moyle, Lombard, Rogers, JUH, Jeffrey, 2x top 5 picks

Vs

Serong, Young, Jackson, Treacy, Amiss, NOD, M.Johnson, N.Erasmus, Chapman, Dudley, M.Reid, Simpson, Voss, Mcvee


You can’t possibly believe the Hawks group has more development than the other two?

You believe the following players from this lists are above any of the Hawks players you mentioned...

Dudley, Simpson, McVee,O'Driscoll, Johnson, Moyle, Rogers, Jeffrey, Davies, Read?

What have you seen from those players in particular that you'd be so confident banking on them outshining the Hawthorn list over a full career?
I'll take Butler out, because he's only just started to hit his straps a little, and maybe Mackenzie who still needs to prove himself a bit.

The rest are walk up starts to every side in the competition.