How could a list like we have be assembled?

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Thread starter #1
Asking myself some questions but have no answers,how could our recruiters have got it so horribly wrong.Can't believe how many players we have on our list who can't kick the ball properly & continually turn it over.
Not only that but we seem to have some of the dumbest decision makers who lack total awareness out on the ground.
Surely poor disposal skills lack of hardness decision making & awareness were noted & discussed before we traded for plus drafted players to the club.
Please please please recruiting staff bring to the club players who can kick plus those who are willing to have a red hot go every single week.
 

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RandB

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#2
Our recruiting has not been thorough enough in the last 4 years but that still doesn't explain why our entire list is such a sorry state of affairs.

To amass a list like ours takes careful incompetent planning and dedicated neglect over a substantial period.

This morning I pondered over the Bailey era and tried to think of at least 1 decent contribution Bailey could hang his hat on from his time at Melbourne - not a cracker, couldn't think of anything.

Our collective skills are terrible.

Our conditioning over the last 4 years has been terrible.

Our leadership and culture has been a joke - something we are slowly correcting.

We had no discernable game plan or guidance for our younger players.

We had no recruiting strategy that was based on a definitive approach that our coaching regime was taking.

Now Neeld, Misson, Greaves and Craig have come along and given these guys a rude awakening as to what AFL is all about but due to our poor base we have to go backwards to go forwards. It's like watching John Candy doing bootcamp in 'Stripes'.

We'll get there though, our list is better than what we're seeing atm.
 

Andy_Mac

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#3
It's a bit harsh.

There are several examples...

Who amongst us thought WTF when we called out a 4th year electrician fom Tassie in the 2nd round of the 2010 draft? 2 years on and Jeremy Howe is a shining light.
 

Jordie_tackles

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#4
Our recruiting has not been thorough enough in the last 4 years but that still doesn't explain why our entire list is such a sorry state of affairs.

To amass a list like ours takes careful incompetent planning and dedicated neglect over a substantial period.

This morning I pondered over the Bailey era and tried to think of at least 1 decent contribution Bailey could hang his hat on from his time at Melbourne - not a cracker, couldn't think of anything.

Our collective skills are terrible.

Our conditioning over the last 4 years has been terrible.

Our leadership and culture has been a joke - something we are slowly correcting.

We had no discernable game plan or guidance for our younger players.

We had no recruiting strategy that was based on a definitive approach that our coaching regime was taking.

Now Neeld, Misson, Greaves and Craig have come along and given these guys a rude awakening as to what AFL is all about but due to our poor base we have to go backwards to go forwards. It's like watching John Candy doing bootcamp in 'Stripes'.

We'll get there though, our list is better than what we're seeing atm.
EVER
 

Deemanding

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#7
It's still a reflection on how utterly disasterous our drafting was in 1999 - 2004. We had no-one to lead the kids - we drafted on potential and that was it. Who have we left from that:

Green (2nd round pick 1999)
Silvia (1st round pick 2003)
Rivers (2nd round pick 2002)
Bate (1st round pick 2004)
Dunn (1st round pick 2004)
Davey (rookie, 2004)
Jamar (rookie, 2002)
(sorry if I missed anyone)

There are so many gaps there - guys who were drafted and simply didn't make it. Look at the likes of Geelong, Hawthorn, St Kilda - their lists are loaded with players drafted in 2000 and 2001 - we've got no-one (and yes I know the Jeff White deal cost us lot here)!

Even worse, guaranteed a couple of the above won't be at the club at the end of the year.

The likes of Morton look to be a horrible selection (Pick 4 is cursed, if we get it I hope we trade it), and so many of our later picks have spent half of their career injured (Blease, Strauss, Jetta, the likes of Gawn, Gysberts, Jurrah, Petterd, to a lesser extent Grimes). This has significantly curved their development.

Are we the most unlucky club there is with injuries?
 
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#8
I think our development is more to blame, particularly physically.

I look at our list, and in all honesty I don't think it's a bottom four list - yet somehow it is.

I think predictability of play and structure plays a huge part in decision making and disposal at AFL level, at such high speeds it would have to be.
 

Eth

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#9
Andrew Gaff looks the goods on a pick 4 note.

But here are our picks from the 2005 draft back to 1999 - really, what should be our club leaders, experienced and best players and mentors. Bolded are what (I believe) we got right:

1999 ND pick 18 - Brad Green
1999 ND pick 19 - Paul Wheatley
1999 ND pick 42 - Michael Clark
1999 ND pick 50 - Matthew Whelan
1999 ND pick 63 - Shannon O'Brien
1999 ND pick 64 - Cameron Bruce
2000 ND pick 16 - Scott Thompson
2000 ND pick 62 - Daniel Breese
2000 ND pick 73 - Ross Funcke
2000 ND pick 80 - Mitchell Craig
2001 ND pick 9 - Luke Molan
2001 ND pick 25 - Steven Armstrong
2001 ND pick 26 - Aaron Rogers
2001 ND pick 55 - Brad Miller
2002 ND pick 14 - Daniel Bell
2002 ND pick 15 - Nicholas Smith
2002 ND pick 26 - Jared Rivers
2002 ND pick 39 - Gary Moorcroft
2002 ND pick 54 - Cameron Hunter
2002 ND pick 66 - Ryan Ferguson
2003 ND pick 3 - Colin Sylvia
2003 ND pick 5 - Brock McLean
2003 ND pick 36 (f/s) - Chris Johnson
2004 ND pick 13 - Matthew Bate
2004 ND pick 15 - Lynden Dunn
2004 ND pick 43 - Michael Newton
2005 ND pick 12 - Nathan Jones
2005 ND pick 53 - Simon Buckley
2005 ND pick 60 - Clint Bartram
2005 ND pick 68 - Heath Neville

Hindsight is 20/20, but that's thirteen from thirty, and that's even including players such as Bate, Bell and Dunn who really haven't (or didn't) reached the potential of the pick spent to get them.

Could have done a bit better, but it's interesting to look back.
 

Dory_77

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#10
I think the development of the players is just as much to blame as the recruiters (probably moreso). The top ten in the draft is usually pretty set in stone leading up to the draft, so to say that guys like Morts, or Watts, or even Sylvia or McLean should've been overlooked can only be done with hindsight. At the time, these players were considered the obvious choice at those selections. Our use of later picks hasn't been that flash though, admittedly.
However, the draft is always a bit speculative; some great juniors make it, others don't. How they are trained and developed plays the biggest part in whether they do or don't go on to succeed and we've had a run of woeful development. Bailey was hailed for his 'development' work at the Bombers in 1999-2000 and Port in 2004 but did sweet FA for us. Guys became lazy, lost confidence and didn't really improve much on their natural talent. Daniher was similar, although nowhere near as bad as Bailey.
 

00Stinger

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#11
IMO the two glaring problems with our list is the lack of consistant A-grade players and the lack of pace in our team.

The only players at the moment who are close to A-grade is Clark (Injured), Frawley (Full Back is hardly going to be a match winner), Jones & Sylvia (Who is inconsistant and injury prone).

I think we have the list that would rapidly move up the ladder if we added in a star midfielder and a star half back/wing with pace.

When we win the ball we are too slow to break free, not to mention coming out of the backline. There is no player with out and out pace in the team. Blease is fast, but when you only get 10 touches a game, you are hardly going to blow it open.
 

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SPC 98

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#12
All clubs have had some bad selections over the years..

Our issue is major injuries, lack of leaders, leaders that were cut too early, hence leaving our young developing talent with no one to guide them and previous poor conditioning coaches.

We have finally got it right, but the product of a tough preseason (which had to happen) is injuries. We have majority of the cattle, just need a good run of injuries, a preseason under Misson/Neeld and a couple of quality ball users in the midfield and a good crumbing forward.

Strauss, Blease, Taggert, Gysberts & Trengove will be the guys to drive this club forward as they are the ones that will improve exponentially in years to come. Our forward line when fit looks amazing (excluding small forward) and back line is now complete with Strauss the ball user back.

We get Viney, a classy mid with silky skills and a good small forward we are done..

Give Morton, Bennell and a few other free-wheelers the flick and put a few more years into the list and we are going to be okay.
 
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#13
The great thing is that this is going to be a 'one pre-season' turn around for this list and club.


pick 3 - Jimmy Toumpas (great pace. beautifully skilled onballer that kicks goals and loves the big occasion)
pick 4 - Dayle Garlett (the lightning quick crumbing forward we've been crying out for, and can play midfield)
pick 12 - Oliver Wines (Colin Sylvia clone, and close friends with Jack Viney)
pick 24 - Jack VIney (father and son)


2012 midfield (12 man rotation) -

Nathan Jones
Jack Trengove
Colin Sylvia
Jack Grimes
Jack Viney
Sam Blease
Jordan Gysberts
Jimmy Toumpas
Oliver Wines
Dayle Garlett
Jordie McKenzie
Jeremy Howe


Plus whoever we land in free agency with our wads of cash (Beams, Wellingham, Goddard, Boak?)


if we can manage the above, and we will, our midfield is fixed on the spot and not only that but it suddenly becomes borderline elite (or will be). We will definitely be getting Viney with a 2nd rounder. I am hoping we get Garlett, and he is worth pick 4 - we can not afford a Cale Morton ahead of Lewis Jetta scenario again.
 
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#15
Garlett's worth pick four because he's not a small forward.

Wines won't slip to twelve, either.

he will quite comfortably play small forward to start his AFL career, and will go into the midfield on occasion.

And Oliver Wines could go anywhere from 4 -14.

as an example, Inside Footballs mock draft has us taking him at 12.
 

Eth

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#16
he will quite comfortably play small forward to start his AFL career, and will go into the midfield on occasion.

And Oliver Wines could go anywhere from 4 -14.

as an example, Inside Footballs mock draft has us taking him at 12.
You seen Garlett play? He's not your short goalsneak by any stretch. Almost a bit of Blease or Harvey in him in that he's super quick and highly skilled with the ability to burn opponents off and make those seventy-metre plays which allows him to hit the scoreboard when needed.

Wines is quite honestly way too good a prospect to slip to pick 12-14 or whatever ours is; we'd have much more of a chance of picking up a Vlastuin around there. I'd honestly love to get Ben Kennedy with that pick as he seems like that small nuggety player who can just push forward, rove a pack, kick a goal. Blair- or McGlynn-esque except probably at a higher skill level.

If we get Toumpas at 3, Wines at 4 and Kennedy at 13, I'll be rapt.
 

00Stinger

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#19
The great thing is that this is going to be a 'one pre-season' turn around for this list and club.


pick 3 - Jimmy Toumpas (great pace. beautifully skilled onballer that kicks goals and loves the big occasion)
pick 4 - Dayle Garlett (the lightning quick crumbing forward we've been crying out for, and can play midfield)
pick 12 - Oliver Wines (Colin Sylvia clone, and close friends with Jack Viney)
pick 24 - Jack VIney (father and son)


2012 midfield (12 man rotation) -

Nathan Jones
Jack Trengove
Colin Sylvia
Jack Grimes
Jack Viney
Sam Blease
Jordan Gysberts
Jimmy Toumpas
Oliver Wines
Dayle Garlett
Jordie McKenzie
Jeremy Howe


Plus whoever we land in free agency with our wads of cash (Beams, Wellingham, Goddard, Boak?)


if we can manage the above, and we will, our midfield is fixed on the spot and not only that but it suddenly becomes borderline elite (or will be). We will definitely be getting Viney with a 2nd rounder. I am hoping we get Garlett, and he is worth pick 4 - we can not afford a Cale Morton ahead of Lewis Jetta scenario again.

There is alot of potential there, but to say it would be borderline elite in 2013 is a stretch. There is still not 1 elite player in that midfield yet. Not one AA or for that matter not even one b&f winner (yes Jones will win it this year).
 

richskee

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#20
Jimmy Toumpass is a mouth watering prospect to say the least. Theres a chance he may even go ahead of us. GUN.

He's a future Goodes.
 

CTHORANGE

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#24
I don't think we just happened to pick a raft of duds. Players are selected in the draft because they are good junior players, from there it's mostly a development issue. Every team has good and bad outcomes with players. Obviously we have been poor at developing player skills and fitness over the past few years, but it's never too late to turn things around and Neeld is doing that now, I'm really interested to see where the team is at one year from now.
 

Animosity

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#25
I think a percentage of our development was hampered by some of our more experienced players being forced out of the club by fail-ey ... McDonald (forced into retirement), Bruce (should have got the 2 years he wanted) and Robbo (also should have got 2 more years) and to an extent Paul Wheatley. Old heads on a field are like second coaches, they give the younger guys guidance and can definatley fast-track their development and learn to respect the club. Playing senior football at 20 years old if a 30 year old club favourite came to me and said 'run here' or 'you should have done this' ... It's all I would think about next contest. During the past 3 years apart from Brad Green we havent had those types on the ground. A succesful team is all about the mix of youth, established and experienced, I think a team with 4 players 28+ is ideal.
 
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