That might be true....but can you imagine the haul we get when he leaves! Whats a reigning brownlow medalist worth in a trade/free agency compensation??
-
LIVE: Richmond v Melbourne - 7:25PM Wed
Squiggle tips Demons at 77% chance -- What's your tip? -- Team line-ups »
How could Geelong possibly miss James Worpel?
- Thread starter Brain Power
- Start date
- Tagged users None
That's not the reason at all.
When Franklin left, we all heard how Gunston would be 'found out' as he was no longer the 3rd tall. He then proceeded to be much better and kick 50+ goals for the first time despite having a better calibre opponent. He was targeted more often and thrived.
Roughead's form diminished significantly last year and often the #1 KPD played on Gunston, yet Gunston kicked 50+ goals and was deservedly All Australian.
Gunston's 'decline' this season has nothing to do with dropping an average Roughead (who has been replaced by Lewis anyway). It has been because Hawthorn's game plan has been to move the ball carefully and slowly to the forward line and then proceed to try and find a target in amongst 40+ players. It is the reason why Hawthorn is top 2 for inside 50's (and wins this stat nearly every week) but is bottom 5 for actual scoring.
Every Hawthorn forward is way down on goals as a result. Breust is our leading goalkicker (usually kicks 50+) and has 28. Gunston usually kicks 50+ and has 19. Puopolo usually kicks 20 and has 7. etc, etc. Our game style has been atrocious and it is near impossible for our forwards to kick a goal with poor entries into huge packs of players. On top of that, Gunston has also been playing in the backline when our midfield is getting beaten (which is pretty regular).
The only positive is that Clarko seems to have noticed how poorly this strategy is going and has adopted a higher risk, faster moving approach at some point against West Coast (which saw us surge back into the contest) an carried this on against Collingwood, who we defeated. Let's hope it continues and Gunston gets a chance to play like any other normal forward in any other team (1 on 1 at times, 1 on 2 at other times rather than high balls to big packs of players).
- Apr 18, 2005
- 30,984
- 26,721
- AFL Club
- Melbourne
The first page of this thread is gold
If you asked someone who had spent their entire life underground to write an essay describing a sunset, you'd get something similar to Champion Data's analysis of football.
There are a series of distinct roles that midfielders play in modern football, probably as distinct as rover/ruck rover/wingman in old school football. The positions just don't have a name, they vary from club to club and even from quarter to quarter depending on matchups and how teams are going.
What Champion Data have managed to quantify with this stat is 'full time midfielders who spend the most time forward of the ball or in space on the attacking side of a switch and the least time playing on the defensive side of packs/in close''.
It makes as much sense as a statistical comparison as ranking all players over 190cm by number of shots on goal from marks and concluding that Alex Rance is s**t.
There are a series of distinct roles that midfielders play in modern football, probably as distinct as rover/ruck rover/wingman in old school football. The positions just don't have a name, they vary from club to club and even from quarter to quarter depending on matchups and how teams are going.
What Champion Data have managed to quantify with this stat is 'full time midfielders who spend the most time forward of the ball or in space on the attacking side of a switch and the least time playing on the defensive side of packs/in close''.
It makes as much sense as a statistical comparison as ranking all players over 190cm by number of shots on goal from marks and concluding that Alex Rance is s**t.
Last edited:
Doesn't surprise me that a Hawthorn mid getting a lot of the ball would feature highly on the non-damaging list then. Our forward line has been a basket case all year. We've lost a number of games where the inside 50 count should have had us winning. You can blame the mids for delivery, and that is part of the issue, but the forward structure just hasn't worked all year. In that situation, your mids are going to look bad in terms of involvement in scoring chains. 4 of the 5 most damaging mids are playing for teams in the top 5 teams for marks inside 50. 4 of the players in the 5 least damaging mids are in the bottom 8 for marks inside 50. I don't think that is all about delivery.
Basically you have a well functioning forward line, you are much more likely to be on the damaging than the non-damaging list, so not a great stat at isolating damaging mids, as too much reliance on a well functioning forward line as a key factor in the rating.
Like 2001, you got a handful of great players, we got Hodge
I am surprised Worpel was overlooked; great player. However Wells has so many wins in the bank that he is allowed to let one slip by from time to time.
And those who are saying they would take Worpel over Naughton is crazy. Naughton is an amazing mark that has huge amounts of talent. Worpel is a midfielder which grows on trees. Hawks are starved for forward talent; even Clarkson would take him in an instant. He traded Burton and picks for Wingard, he would trade Worpel for Naughton in an instant.
And those who are saying they would take Worpel over Naughton is crazy. Naughton is an amazing mark that has huge amounts of talent. Worpel is a midfielder which grows on trees. Hawks are starved for forward talent; even Clarkson would take him in an instant. He traded Burton and picks for Wingard, he would trade Worpel for Naughton in an instant.
I ******* hope they turn out as good as the 2001 draft, you can have your new Luke Hodge but give me Bartel, Ablett, Kelly and Johnson every day of the week.
You also drafted Mitchell and and Brown in 2001 so it wasn't a 1 man draft for you either.
Given Worpel is possibly the best ever draft recruit, yes then Geelong have really stuffed this up.
- Feb 19, 2011
- 3,653
- 4,938
- AFL Club
- Geelong
GOAT draft recruit apparently.....
Don’t agree. Hawks lost the 2012 GF because we were Buddy focused. We relied on an individual way too much and he didn’t kick straight on the day. Clarko then changed our strategy the following year by running a number of different players through the forward line and pushed versatility which played a big part in the 3 peat. If Naughton was at the Hawks he would be expected to play a role which I believe Lewis will be able to do as well. If we didn’t have Worpel the ball wouldn’t get to the forwardline as much. With Mitchell, Hodge, Lewis departing at once and Burgs getting on we needed midfielders to replace them quickly. I wouldn’t swap Worpel for Naughton not a chance as he will be a gun midfielder of the competition. Naughton is a quality young gun forward no doubt but take out Worpel our midfield would be thin. This year he has averaged 25.25 possessions a game which is excellent for a young player that needed to show leadership and step up to fill the void of losing Tom at the start of the year through injury.
- May 12, 2015
- 10,040
- 19,306
- AFL Club
- Hawthorn
That was the first thing I thought of when I saw this thread. You can't nail them all and Wells has more credits in the bank than most. We are rapt with Worpel and the cats would be bloody happy with their recent draftees.
I will say that if Worpel had played one less game last season he'd be eligible for the rising star and in my opinion would be the clear leader. Having said that I rate Miers as a genuine chance to win it and can't think of many players who are as clutch in front of the sticks.
Let's hope both of them can put on a show this Sunday, both supporter bases are lucky to have a rivalry that produces so many classic encounters.
This thread is weird. We've gotten 79 games from our four picks. Hawks have had 34.
And I'm not knocking the Hawks, they've been great list managers the last decade and longer. It's just in this particular draft Geelong made out like bandits with Kelly, Miers, Constable and Fogarty. Not a draft that I scratch my head about and wonder what we were thinking.
And I'm not knocking the Hawks, they've been great list managers the last decade and longer. It's just in this particular draft Geelong made out like bandits with Kelly, Miers, Constable and Fogarty. Not a draft that I scratch my head about and wonder what we were thinking.
You watch gaff play much? West coast actually improved last year when he wasn't in the team.
WWSD
Premium Platinum
Veteran
10k Posts
Hawthorn Hawks - Conor Nash Player Sponsor 2020
Hawthorn Hawks - James Cousins Player Sponsor 2020
Hawthorn Hawks - Conor Nash Player Sponsor 2019
Hawthorn Hawks - James Cousins Player Sponsor 2019
Hawthorn Hawks - Conor Nash Player Sponsor 2018
Hawthorn Hawks - James Cousins Player Sponsor 2018
- Sep 7, 2009
- 24,285
- 54,997
Worpel is far from an elite kick but he’s not a terrible kick either. There are Hawthorn players who are worse kicks of the footy. His kicking efficiency is around 65%. Which is what most inside midfielders tend to be around.
We do need another contested beast and Worpel is developing into a beauty in that regard.
I firmly believe these types succeed in finals. Selwood is almost at the end of his career, as too Ablett.
I cannot see Scott Selwood playing many more years either which leaves us thin in this area.
I do believe this is a issue in which our recruiters will look at if Tim Kelly asks to go home at the end of the year. Coniglio is a contested beast and would slot in perfectly replacing Selwood for many years to come.
KermitJagger
Professional Thread Derailer
- May 17, 2017
- 13,970
- 43,429
- AFL Club
- Hawthorn
This is the major Geelong issue I imagine your list management team would be struggling with at the moment. Selwood has hit the wrong side of 30 for a bloke that plays the type of game that he plays, and he's simply too vital inside to save him by playing him elsewhere.
I honestly think Worpel might make his way back down that way at some point in the near future anyway.
Tandy
Norm Smith Medallist
I'd take Miers over Worpel everday of the week. I remember watching it hoping we would get Miers and we did. Could be 400+ goal career (not including the way the game is going goal wise)
Wtf. Worpel is entrenched into Hawthorn, has on a number of occasions spoken about his love for the club and the influence Sammy has had on his development playing midfield. I see him as a future Hawk captain given the leadership qualities he has shown at such a young age.
Cats passed on him 3 times and it was Hawthorn that gave him the opportunity to live his dream of playing AFL!
- May 20, 2011
- 12,013
- 10,664
- AFL Club
- North Melbourne
Mate I rate Worpel, in fact I rate Hawthorn's younger players coming through, but Worpel is not better than Naughton. Every club would select Naughton if given the choice.
KermitJagger
Professional Thread Derailer
- May 17, 2017
- 13,970
- 43,429
- AFL Club
- Hawthorn
Yeah I agree. The volume of midfielders vs the volume of promising young KPP shifts the scale in a big way.
Love a Worps, but a Naughton is much rarer.
Hawkas1988
Norm Smith Medallist
Yeah agree. I love Worps but a KPF like Naughton would be taken everytime. He will be a star. Worpel may become a star too but it is much harder to find KPF stars.
Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk
