How dangerous is Ice & other drugs?

[The Passenger]

Is that because alcohol is more dangerous/unhealthy/damaging than illicit drugs, or is it because alcohol is more available, affordable, consumed in larger quantities & more regularly by a larger proportion of the population?

I'd wager that in an apples-with-apples comparison, each and every drug would be more deadly than alcohol.

some would, some wouldn't.

alcohol would still be very high no the list, but on an apples to apples basis crack, ice and alcohol would be more dangerous, and i'd probably wager cocaine and a few others would be on similarish levels to alcohol.

http://www.thegooddrugsguide.com/ecstasy/dangers.htm

deaths per users sits at 7 per million in the UK according to this page. the estimates vary widely as there is no known way to source how many people have died as a result from ectasy use.

http://www.wrongdiagnosis.com/a/alcohol_abuse/deaths.htm

19,171 deaths in the US related to alcohol in 1999.

Population of the US at this time was 273 million according to this goverment report (page 3) - http://www.census.gov/population/www/pop-profile/files/1999/chap02.pdf

just say there are 200 million alcohol users in the US in that year (which there wouldn't be - it would be much lower) that would equate 95 deaths per million users....

the biggest positive alcohol has got going for it, is that because you are consuming a beer or win which roughly takes about 15 minutes to consume a standard drink, is that to get to the point of causing short term damage it is a gradual process and takes a bit a good amount of time. obviously if you start getting into shots this doesn't apply so much anymore.

however you can take 500mg of MDMA in 2 minutes which would put most people into an absolute oblivion.

 

[The Passenger]

Anyway, update on my friend. Went out again last weekend with the same bloke as last time to the same strip club.
Hopefully he hasn't used again.

What I've learned since posting this thread though is that he has been associating with this girl who is a heavy user, her brother recently died of an overdose. That's where the influence is coming from.

if you go on to erowid.org and have a read around it will open a wealth of good balanced information for you.

http://www.erowid.org/psychoactives/psychoactives.shtml

there are plenty of other pages.

i would be monitoring the situation if i were you.

even as a pro-drug person i would still never recommend anyone to try ice. in fact i can't really show any positives or any reasons for someone to use ice. even heroin at least has pain killing and sedative properties that could be given as reasons to use (although i wouldn't recommend as there are far better, less addictive, cheaper and easier to access drugs through doctors)

if you look on that site it has a list of each effects and information on loads of drugs. the positive sections for ice has four items, the netural effects section has four items, and the negatives effects section has an amount of items i can't be bothered counting (looks about 25 items).... compare with MDMA (about 15 positive, 10 netural, 20 negative), alcohol (about 5 positive, 10 netural, 15 negative), LSD (about 10 positive, 10 neutal and 10 negative) and you start to get the picture that not even drug people like ice.

so yeah man, keep an eye on the situation, especially if he has any sort of addictive perasonlity.

anyway, really gotta fly to college now as running late.

 

[The OBSTacle]

Forgetting something important aren't we? Alcohol is legal. You don't have to travel more then 5 minutes in any city to get it, it's relatively cheap and it must be the only drug where it is often socially unacceptable to not consume it. No s**t its done more damage.

Now hypothetically, lets take alcohol and trade it's place with say... heroin.



Embrace zombie apocalypse.

Heroin responsibly administered = no deaths and a massive drop in the related crime rate.

Take home heroin = dead people everywhere and no crime rate whatsoever.

Perhaps we need to dose out alcohol?

 

[The OBSTacle]

Is that because alcohol is more dangerous/unhealthy/damaging than illicit drugs, or is it because alcohol is more available, affordable, consumed in larger quantities & more regularly by a larger proportion of the population?

Both of the figures I supplied related to users per million. If I were to post overall figures then alcohol would massively outrate MDMA on the danger scale.

The figures for MDMA probably don't even take in to account deaths from rubbish sold in pills under the guise of being MDMA.

Alcohol is physically addictive, MDMA and amphetamines are not.

Alcohol IS more dangerous.

I'd wager that in an apples-with-apples comparison, each and every drug would be more deadly than alcohol.

Based on what?

 

[The Passenger]

The figures for MDMA probably don't even take in to account deaths from rubbish sold in pills under the guise of being MDMA.

this is one of the biggest reasons for the legilasation of MDMA. Not too mention it would take a massive crime black market off the street.

the two biggest obstactles that i can see

- ensuring the way it's administered doesn't allow a user to take several doses in quick time. best way for this would be too adminster it via a liqiud substance - exact same as alcohol really. but i don't know much about whether the properties of MDMA change when stored in liqiuds, particularly if stored for extended times.

- ensure a way to stop people from using both alcohol and MDMA at once, or at least lower the mixture rate. i really don't know how you could do this. most articles on the topic have stated that the negative effects of both drugs come to the fore when mixed as opposed to using on their own.

 

[The Passenger]

one thing most people don't realise is how dangerous alcohol withdrawl is for alcoholics.

compared with heroin which has few deaths during the withdrawal stages despite having pretty horrific symptons (as you do with alcohol withdrawal)

http://www.drugrehab.co.uk/FAQ-heroin.htm

Heroin withdrawal is never fatal to otherwise healthy adults, but it can cause death to the foetus of a pregnant addict

http://www.heroinabuse.us/withdrawal.html

While heroin withdrawal is seldom fatal, it can cause death if heavy users who are in poor health suddenly stop taking the drug. It is worth noting that alcohol withdrawal is often considered more dangerous.

http://www.addictionsandrecovery.org/withdrawal.htm

Alcohol and tranquilizers produce the most dangerous physical withdrawal. Suddenly stopping alcohol or tranquilizers can lead to seizures, strokes, or heart attacks in high risk patients.

same page:

Withdrawal from opiates like heroin and oxycontin is extremely uncomfortable, but not dangerous unless they are mixed with other drugs. Heroin withdrawal on its own does not produce seizures, heart attacks, strokes, or delirium tremens

 

[tazaa]

The legalisation of MDMA wont happen due to the fact controlling it will be just as hard.
Basically alcahol plays a direct role in it staying illegal aswell.
Both of them cant coexist in society because drunks already are a problem and MDMA will get tarnished the same way.
Put it this way. People drink. They get very hyper and become a nuisance, make stupid decisions and get aggressive.
This results in rapes, assaults, drink driving and deaths. Not always but it happens.
MDMA actually brings out the euphoria in everyone.
I would bet my life that if you gave the worst of enemies mdma and put them in the same room and came back after 4 hours that they WOULD BE THE BEST OF MATES.
Hitler and a Jew. Best mates.
Saadam and George Bush. Best mates.
A cro and a serb. Best mates.
Why on earth would a substance that brings out the BEST in people be banned?
You wouldn want to hit anyone, the place you take it seems like heaven so whod want to go home on it, any girl no matter how fat skinny ****ty or nice would be an angel in your eyes. Respect.
NO PROBLEMS AT ALL.
But yeh leave it illegal, make criminals press s**t as pills instead of it and allow these figures to make a profit.
Go society! You rule

 

[King Elvis]

He was high and died

I know it's not funny, but did anybody else find that a little amusing?

 

[CLUBMEDhurst]

This is the one of the most ridicules threads I've ever read.


If you take drugs - any kind - you're the lowest of the low.

Not one single reason to take them....

Charles Manson, Ed Gein, Joey Stalin and Adey Hitler say hi

 

[Brad Goodman]

Massive druggos

 

[The OBSTacle]

Charles Manson, Ed Gein, Joey Stalin and Adey Hitler say hi

John Lennon, Salvador Dali, Sigmund Freud, Judy Garland, John Paul Getty, Ray Kroc, Johnny Cash, Elton John, Phillip Seymour Hoffman, Ray Charles, Buzz Aldrin, Aldous Huxley etc, etc, etc also say hi.

 

[CLUBMEDhurst]

John Lennon, Salvador Dali, Sigmund Freud, Judy Garland, John Paul Getty, Ray Kroc, Johnny Cash, Elton John, Phillip Seymour Hoffman, Ray Charles, Buzz Aldrin, Aldous Huxley etc, etc, etc also say hi.

Yes, all famous drug users, though I think you may have missed my point.

 

[Angus Young]

This is the one of the most ridicules threads I've ever read.


If you take drugs - any kind - you're the lowest of the low.

Not one single reason to take them....

Really??? I know alot of lovely, nice, kind, productive people that indulge...

 

[nicky]

Massive druggos

Wow, amazing insight, go on..

For those arguing against the anti drug brigade, good on you, but it is a waste of time arguing logic with "certain types" of people.

 

[Hu$tler]

This is the one of the most ridicules threads I've ever read.


If you take drugs - any kind - you're the lowest of the low.

Not one single reason to take them....

Why?

That view is ridiculous.

 

[nicky]

Why?

That view is ridiculous.

I think you mean "ridicules"

 

[The Passenger]

ooo man i was hoping no one would respond to fire storm. s**t contribution to what had been a good interesting thread. could go downhill :-/

 

[Dazb86]

In terms of addictiveness it depends on the mindset of the user.

I have seen the bad side of ice before. Had mates genuinely turn loopy and go to the mental ward. 10 days without sleep will do that to a kid. Ice addicts are dodgy as hell always scheming for their next hit and will rip friends/family off to get it. It can also turn people to heroin/prescription drugs to help themselves sleep, leading to further problems. It really is a killer. The media is over the top with the "one hit you won't quit" statements but it's not something you should make a habit of AT ALL.

That being said if you have a good head on your shoulders and understand what you are doing is bad news and shouldn't be treated lightly you should be fine.

If you are going to try it I'd urge you to set yourself a limit ie: Try this once a month/every 2 months because weekend warriors quickly turn into addicts whose whole lives revolve around aquiring it.

 

[The Passenger]

If you are going to try it I'd urge you to set yourself a limit ie: Try this once a month/every 2 months because weekend warriors quickly turn into addicts whose whole lives revolve around aquiring it.

yeah i'd reiteratte (sp??) this too.

from my own experience i was started snorting h which started off about every 6 weeks, but by about the tenth time it had been the last 3 or 4 weekends straight at which point i cut it off and only did it once about 2 months later and not since. that last one was about a year ago.

i know saying "from my own experience" might sound a bit stupid because it's nothing compared to what addicts have gone through, but it's still relevant in someone seeing the signs before it was too late cause the length's of time between taking were getting progressively shorter and the dosages were going up.

and this is from someone who i don't believe i've got an addictive personality. i love a drink and a punt but if i'm short on cash i just have some time off and work and save up rather than scrounging together my last pennies to have a night out or to put a bet on like you see a lot of people do. same with smoking - i'll smoke for a month then not for a few months then back on it for a while, then off.

also at the time i had no reason to feel like i needed to get away from the world. i was actually having a great time in my life - had just moved to melbourne, and had being make some great friends.... i just really enjoyed the rush and the sedation, and it was a good way to end the night.

this last point was the biggest thing that struck me though - how easy it could be to fall into the trap had you just had something traumatic in your life (divorce, lost a load of cash, lost job etc,.) because you really lose any since of giving a **** about anything. you kinda just lay there with a goofy grin on your face thinking how good life is and drift off to sleep as if you'd smoked about 20 joints.