Strategy How do we avoid a "2009 Part II"

[Hawkk]

We could start by not getting injuries to almost every single player.

Also, play the kids. Hallahan, Langford, Grimley, Lowden, etc. They bring creativity and enthusiasm which we were lacking in 2009.

From memory we played a few kids in 2009 - Whitecross, Kennedy, Savage, Schoenmakers, Dowler, Muston, Moss etc. In my opinion Clarkson has been very effective in revitalising out list with youth in both 2009 and 2011 which has in no small way has contributed to our sustained success.

I'm probably a little less optimistic about our chances than a few on our board. I expect us to finish 5th to 8th, blood a number of players and become the biggest player in the 2014 FA market (for a sustained crack at 2015-2017). Thankfully we won the flag this year so selling a mini rebuild to our support base should be relatively easy

 

[MistyAvalon]

oh I will say it again.we can If we believe we can

 

[Lord_Espos]

From memory we played a few kids in 2009 - Whitecross, Kennedy, Savage, Schoenmakers, Dowler, Muston, Moss etc. In my opinion Clarkson has been very effective in revitalising out list with youth in both 2009 and 2011 which has in no small way has contributed to our sustained success.

I'm probably a little less optimistic about our chances than a few on our board. I expect us to finish 5th to 8th, blood a number of players and become the biggest player in the 2014 FA market (for a sustained crack at 2015-2017). Thankfully we won the flag this year so selling a mini rebuild to our support base should be relatively easy

Could you elaborate on why you are less optimistic than others?

Why would we not be aiming for Top 4, or why it is out of reach?

 

[Hawkk]

Could you elaborate on why you are less optimistic than others?

Why would we not be aiming for Top 4, or why it is out of reach?

I just think we've got a few holes in key positions (our ruck division, ageing midfield rotation and perhaps our forward line) which may require a overhaul. That said, that's only my view and I actually think the fact that we now have to blood a few youngsters while we've got Hodge, Mitchell, Burgers etc. in the side will be a blessing in disguise. It'll put us in a fantastic position to hit the 2014 FA period in a position of strength and position ourselves for another run at silverware (ala 2011/13)

We can't have the best list in each game for every season that's just the nature of the competition. If we can compete in and around the top 6, we'll position ourselves to win our fair share of premierships...

 

[Mitchell Madness]

We used every player on our list (who was available, including rookies) in 2009
We had only 23 fit players come the final round
The fact we finished 9th is a testament to how strong the club actually is, most teams with that many injuries would have ended up on the bottom, regardless of how they preformed in the previous season

As long as we can maintain some sort of structure, we'll be fine

 

[Glasgow Hawk]

I actually think that we are in a much better position than we were after 2008. At this point in time, less retirements and less post season surgery. The big difference is that not only did our AFL side win the flag, our VFL side did too and our Development team only lost by a point in their GF. Good signs... The way Box Hill dismantled the almighty Geelong VFL side was awesome. Good signs indeed!!

 

[WillowSF]

One of the big reasons we have been so competitive since 2008 is that we have had two of the competition’s best power forwards in Franklin and Roughead and have been able to kick winning scores. Any team with that quality is always going to be a chance. Our immediate need in my mind is to find a replacement for Buddy. It’s virtually impossible to find someone so gifted but we need to try to maintain the team structure and give another player an opportunity at CHF. Gunston is excellent but he is always going to be at his best when he is the third tall. I see no obvious player on our list as I’d rather Shoenmakers be played at CHB. (Stewart Crameri, anyone?)
It also would have been nice to be able to nurse Bailey through one more season but we need to only find someone who can compete in the ruck and help out Hale. With Buddy gone Roughead in the ruck is a non starter. Maybe Billy Longer is that player but I’m not convinced. He is really slow…I’d honestly pass on him.
One of the great things about the Cats is that they never concede a season. They are thereabouts every year despite departures of quality players. We are still in the mix in 2014 even with Buddy’s departure but need to get more goal kicking potential back in our forward line. Anything less than Top 4 four would be disappointing.

 

[50metres]

One of the big reasons we have been so competitive since 2008 is that we have had two of the competition’s best power forwards in Franklin and Roughead and have been able to kick winning scores. Any team with that quality is always going to be a chance. Our immediate need in my mind is to find a replacement for Buddy. It’s virtually impossible to find someone so gifted but we need to try to maintain the team structure and give another player an opportunity at CHF. Gunston is excellent but he is always going to be at his best when he is the third tall. I see no obvious player on our list as I’d rather Shoenmakers be played at CHB. (Stewart Crameri, anyone?)
It also would have been nice to be able to nurse Bailey through one more season but we need to only find someone who can compete in the ruck and help out Hale. With Buddy gone Roughead in the ruck is a non starter. Maybe Billy Longer is that player but I’m not convinced. He is really slow…I’d honestly pass on him.
One of the great things about the Cats is that they never concede a season. They are thereabouts every year despite departures of quality players. We are still in the mix in 2014 even with Buddy’s departure but need to get more goal kicking potential back in our forward line. Anything less than Top 4 four would be disappointing.

Ok we now have a ruckman in BigMac, and I think Grimley will be used to fill Franklins role.
Do you think we will be competitive now?
I also expect Jed Anderson to be given more game time and Shoe and Suckling will still be needed to be squeezed in.
Dont forget Dr Duryea, and Langford in the wings.

 

[TurboBreuster]

With Roughead, Gunston, Rioli, Breust and Shoey or Hale we have arguably the strongest forward line in the league. In 2009 it was our (or lack of) Rucks and KPD's that made us struggle, both of these areas will be in much better shape in 2014. Our mids are bit of a concern, but we have multiple players that can come in from Box Hill. Also, after 2008 the young group of players got ahead of themselves, that will not happen this time around! The team could very well come and play as though, without Buddy, they have something to prove.

 

[MadDawg]

I see no reason why Gunston cannot be the 2nd key forward next year, he has already thrived in that role over the past 2 seasons:

'Since crossing from Adelaide ahead of the 2012 season, the 21-year-old has booted 26 goals in the nine games Franklin has missed, at an average of 2.9 per game.

In his other 30 games for the Hawks – played alongside Franklin – he has averaged just 1.6 goals per game.'

Also his improved output in the finals was a result of Buddy missing the first game, then keeping out of Gunners space in the forward 50 over the last 2 games.

 

[Davo-27]

If they miss the finals in 2014 we should all rip up our memberships Richmond/Collingwood-style..........

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

I think our list is stronger now. I do think now we need to start giving the midfield kids game time so they have enough experience before Bugers, Hodge, Mitch and Sewell depart.

Hunger is also the issue.

 

[Davo-27]

I say use cattle prods on those who don't reach their KPI's, no rest for the wicked.......

 

[Jaeger]

We have ready made replacements for those that won't be there next year, unlike 09.

 

[parsons nose]

I think our list is stronger now. I do think now we need to start giving the midfield kids game time so they have enough experience before Bugers, Hodge, Mitch and Sewell depart.

Hunger is also the issue.

Yeah, and I think we'll see a lot more of them. I'm hoping they might blood OBrien too. I like the way he moves.

 

[deano the hawka]

The thing is that back then we all said that Dowler, Muston, Thorp, Moss, etc., were waiting in the wings and ready to dominate the AFL, but none of them ended up being successful.
We're all saying that Hallahan is already a gun and that we have Langford and O' Brien and other gun VFL players, but how can we be certain that any of these guys will make an impact at AFL level?
Langford had a few disposals in his only AFL game and while he shouldn't be judged on that game, what happens if he continues to play like that?

Obviously we don't have nearly as many injuries at the moment compared to 2009 off season with all the surgeries that players had, but back then we also had replacements for retiring/injured players and they just didn't work out, so we can never guarantee that it will work out next year. That was my main thought

 

[Hodge2NormSmith]

We have buttered up in 2011 and 2012, we have been there before, we have a very mature, professional group with a great coach who learns from past mistakes, we may not win it but at worst we will just miss top 4.

 

[Davo-27]

anyone that said thorp/dowler/muston or moss were going to dominate were obviously *ed idiots

I think our depth goes as far as: Lake, Duryea, Stratton, Burgoyne, Gibson, Birchall, Hill, Mitchell, Smith, Rioli, Schoenmakers, Puopolo, Breust, Roughead, Gunston, McEvoy, Lewis, Hodge, Sewell, Hale, Whitecross, Anderson, Hallahan, Shiels, Simpkin, Suckling, Cheney, Grimley (28) with possibly Lowden, O'Brien making it, Woodward + Langford outside chance

I think Spangher, Litherland, Kelly, Brand are filling gaps unless they improve massively

we lack a bit of depth from last year losing: Franklin, Guerra, Osborne, Savage, Bailey (5)for only McEvoy (1)so far

 

[Arc1]

Anything better than playing Luke Hodge as a 'third man up' in every ruck contest to cover for having no ruck division.

To think there's a thread on main board about him being overrated. Not sure whether to laugh or cry.

 

[treefingers]

anyone that said thorp/dowler/muston or moss were going to dominate were obviously ******ed idiots

It's not any different to people saying Grimley, Hallahan, O'Brien etc will dominate...we all love to speculate on the unknown

 

[Davo-27]

It's not any different to people saying Grimley, Hallahan, O'Brien etc will dominate...we all love to speculate on the unknown

it's not hard to go to an odd box hill game and know for sure where these players stand, takes away the speculation and you can talk about their strengths and weaknesses then, instead of making up fairy tales for the kiddies.....

 

[JoondalupJ]

One of the big reasons we have been so competitive since 2008 is that we have had two of the competition’s best power forwards in Franklin and Roughead and have been able to kick winning scores. Any team with that quality is always going to be a chance. Our immediate need in my mind is to find a replacement for Buddy. It’s virtually impossible to find someone so gifted but we need to try to maintain the team structure and give another player an opportunity at CHF. Gunston is excellent but he is always going to be at his best when he is the third tall. I see no obvious player on our list as I’d rather Shoenmakers be played at CHB. (Stewart Crameri, anyone?)
It also would have been nice to be able to nurse Bailey through one more season but we need to only find someone who can compete in the ruck and help out Hale. With Buddy gone Roughead in the ruck is a non starter. Maybe Billy Longer is that player but I’m not convinced. He is really slow…I’d honestly pass on him.
One of the great things about the Cats is that they never concede a season. They are thereabouts every year despite departures of quality players. We are still in the mix in 2014 even with Buddy’s departure but need to get more goal kicking potential back in our forward line. Anything less than Top 4 four would be disappointing.

WillowSF we already have a buddy replacement . We already have depth , we already have youngsters coming on , we already have several options up front who kick a little better that Buddy.
Buddy never should have been thought of as the be all and end all of Hawthorn make up. When he was the team became too predictable.We have tons of kicking potential in our forward line.
What is with all the worrying. Now I guess you would have seen that our nifty recruiters have handed us a very good ruckman.
Stop worrying , Buddy gone and forgotten, we are good enough to not need him.Any team so centralised on one bloke is in for shock, we won by huge margins on some occasions without him in the team.
I say we look extremely good for next year. Without going over the top , winning back to back is never never guaranteed , but we are top four again I'd say.

 

[JoondalupJ]

From memory we played a few kids in 2009 - Whitecross, Kennedy, Savage, Schoenmakers, Dowler, Muston, Moss etc. In my opinion Clarkson has been very effective in revitalising out list with youth in both 2009 and 2011 which has in no small way has contributed to our sustained success.

I'm probably a little less optimistic about our chances than a few on our board. I expect us to finish 5th to 8th, blood a number of players and become the biggest player in the 2014 FA market (for a sustained crack at 2015-2017). Thankfully we won the flag this year so selling a mini rebuild to our support base should be relatively easy

Don't worry Clarkson is always ten miles in front of the game. He will have been thinking three years ahead morning after the GF. Look at who he blooded this year. And Shoenmakers and Suckling to return and Whitecross later in the year. AND McEvoy! Nice.

 

[MrFujiMoto]

The funniest thing about this was that during the whole 2009 preseason the media were going on about how well we had celebrated the premiership and had gotten straight back to business. Their tune only change to suit their own narratives. Pack of absolute flogs.

The biggest problem that we had was that we had players drop off that we expected to still be around the mark. This was not the players fault and was just bad luck for the club. Crawford retired pretty early on which didn't allow us to do too much in terms of replacing him on the list. Croad was on our list the whole 2009 season but never got back. Dew announced his retirement mid year when things weren't going to well for us. Campbell had a heap of injury worries in the years following and when was fit had to play full back to cover Croad.

The problem is that alot of what went wrong was a combination of bad luck and hindsight.

Can it happen again? Maybe. But I think that we are better placed. We have better coverage in most areas of the ground. Key players like Lake and Burgoyne got through the grand final not only fit but in ripping form.

We have planned for the retirement of Guerra by pumping games into Duryea, and we also have Suckling to come in.

However we don't have a ready made replacement for Bailey or Franklin. Hence we are making a play for Longer but I don't expect him to be able to come in and dominate like Grundy style. Most rucks don't hit their straps until mid 20's.[/quote]

Me thinks the recruiting staff had the same idea, Welcome to the Big Boy. McEvoy will play a big part for us this year with his endurance. It will change the way we structure up in a positive way. Buddy will be the hole in the side because as much as he was a role player, he was a role player that could NOT be left alone. He demanded a quality defender and did with them what he wanted. Him moving up the ground often threw opposition defences into a bit of a spin while they shuffled around working out who was on who. We really caught teams off guard this year up forward.

Teams will be better aware of that and we just do not have the tall forward in the wings that can demand a quality defender. We do have a kamikaze, crazy, Jesus looking dude who crashes a pack better than a bunch of teens crashing a Facebook party. He is purpose built to replace the role Buddy played this year and is actually capable of taking a mark above his shoulders. He also does not go to ground at the slightest contact looking for a free, so maybe he will be better suited to that role than the Bud ever was. Will he own Essendon? Nope and he wont likely kick 60 odd goals but I think Gunston has a few more in him and Spangher could be a 25 - 30 goal a year HHF.

So as long as we are not decimated by injuries like we were in 2009 / 2010, forget what happened in 2009, B2B here we come.

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

2009 is the reason the club is in such terrific shape right now.

Massive massive learning experience for all, including fans.