How do we come back from this?

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ContrarianCrow

Senior List
Aug 31, 2018
248
756
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Norwich City
As I posted in the priority pick thread, our current percentage ranks us in the vicinity of such luminaries as Neeld-era Melbourne, the inaugural seasons of the expansion clubs and the dying whimpers of Fitzroy. Even still, all of those teams managed to win a game, so we’re potentially setting a new benchmark for awful-ness.

The biggest problem that I can see is that there’s not 1, or even 2/3 defining factors that have led to current events. While I appreciate that a football forum is a melting pot of differing opinions by definition, a scroll through the first page of this board can attribute our current state to:

- Nicks
- Our coaching team as a whole
- Our midfield structure
- Our forward structure
- Lack of overall talent
- Player retention
- Player development
- Drafting under Ogilvie
- List management under Reid
- Selection philosophies/
- Fitness under Hass
- Unaccountability of the board
- Chapman/Fagan/Ricciuto
- General contempt/indifference for fans
- Loss of trust between players & club (the camp)

The scariest part about this? All of these viewpoints have some validity to them to varying degrees, and solving a couple of them will have minimal effect on the club’s fortunes while the others are left unchecked.

I don’t see any way out of this mess without a clean out of the club from the top down, and as we’ve seen already, one of the few things the higher-ups are competent at is covering their own backsides ie the sham review of everything but themselves.

Anyone got any ideas on any meaningful change that can be impacted to stop us circling the drain? As much as I enjoy taking the piss out of the club, it kills me that we’ve turned into the laughing stock/punching bag of the comp.
 

footy4ever

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 23, 2008
20,152
24,766
Adelaide
AFL Club
Adelaide
I think you’ve answered your own question.

A clean out from the top down. But who carries out the clean out? A janitor uprising? The ‘top’ aren’t going to clean themselves out.

It’s been an elitist Club forever. You had to somehow get in with the chosen few who act as though the club is theirs, to have any impact on the club’s decision making. It’s been their club to play with. Mere mortals stood/stand no chance

Only the cool kids need apply.

That said, I’m not sure Fagan deserves the vitriol that comes from this board.
 

Shaz2012

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 15, 2012
7,324
7,639
AFL Club
Adelaide
- Nicks
- Our coaching team as a whole
- Our midfield structure
- Our forward structure
- Lack of overall talent
- Player retention
- Player development
- Drafting under Ogilvie
- List management under Reid
- Selection philosophies/
- Fitness under Hass
- Unaccountability of the board
- Chapman/Fagan/Ricciuto
- General contempt/indifference for fans
- Loss of trust between players & club (the camp)
Great summary. Pity the club's whiteboard will have none of these listed.
 

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1970crow

Hall of Famer
Jun 7, 2011
34,928
36,411
Port MacDonnell yay!!!
AFL Club
Adelaide
I think you’ve answered your own question.

A clean out from the top down. But who carries out the clean out? A janitor uprising? The ‘top’ aren’t going to clean themselves out.

It’s been an elitist Club forever. You had to somehow get in with the chosen few who act as though the club is theirs, to have any impact on the club’s decision making. It’s been their club to play with. Mere mortals stood/stand no chance

Only the cool kids need apply.

That said, I’m not sure Fagan deserves the vitriol that comes from this board.
Fagan earns near $1m/year and promised the best footy dept in the land as that was his skill. He sits on both footy strategy and list management committees, so is part of the 2 groups that set the direction of football. He's a massive part of the problem, but guess what, he's on staff, so not going anywhere as we piss any football generated surpluses away on his loss making dalliances. We've got no money, hence the reason we've had to employ L platers or failed hacks under his watch.
 

GreyCrow

TheBrownDog
Mar 21, 2016
53,059
79,639
Down South Corvus Tristis
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Adelaide
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In business and in football you need a strong core/spine

A leader sets a tone for the rest of the organisation. Get that right and it will flow down

The challenge is identifying what Leader will be the best fit. Is the Board also a good mix of Football intelligence and Business Intelligence. Are members of the Board there for the right reasons? Is it enough to be a '' Board Member of the AFC'' or should you be willing to speak up when things go bad? Are you willing to step in and not leave it to a very small group to run the football side?

As much as we wish to deny it - it is a business and this business needs money. Yet contrarily the core business is football and getting that right is Number 1.

A CEO sets the financial agenda and has the contacts and nous to get things in place to support - understanding that football is your core business and every decision must NOT impact but better The Football Department

This includes Football Director who is a conduit to the Board and the Coach. They oversee the Coach and gets them what they need. If it is a rookie coach you get them senior support and surround them with senior line coaches. Dont ever let them say they ' will be fine' - they wont . As FD you also set the tone for the day to day operations and Match Day operations

The Coach must have experience in good organisations and cant come from poorly run organisations themselves. If they have Senior Coaching experience then understand why you are hiring them. ie dont hire Clarkson and then proceed to tell him how to run a football team.

Trust in your processes to identify a good coach

The Captain must be of strong enough character to have the respect of all players. They must be inclusive. They must be able to lead. Hypocrisy cant show in their words v actions. If you ask someone to tackle or bump or smash a pack - be willing to do it yourself or demonstrate you have done so and will continue to do so. Their name must be Tom Doedee
 

cleanhands

Premiership Player
Aug 31, 2007
3,531
2,658
Adelaide
AFL Club
Adelaide
Rightfully so many people have to go, just as hard as it is to rid of these people, it is becoming as difficult to find replacements, no one is jumping out putting their hand up,and it cannot be like our coaching selection by taking the only person that wants it
 

LC40

Club Legend
Oct 14, 2008
2,028
2,384
Adelaide
AFL Club
Adelaide
How did we let go of a premiership winning coach who's been through the entire process and kept an assistant who had never coached on game day at any level.

Here's a thought
Birdman....friend of...
Ben Hart ...friend of...
Brent Reilly...friend of...
Nicks the man everyone loves.

So much love so many friends.
Perhaps one man has far too much say.

Answer...
We need a clean out.
 

footy4ever

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 23, 2008
20,152
24,766
Adelaide
AFL Club
Adelaide
Fagan earns near $1m/year and promised the best footy dept in the land as that was his skill. He sits on both footy strategy and list management committees, so is part of the 2 groups that set the direction of football. He's a massive part of the problem, but guess what, he's on staff, so not going anywhere as we piss any football generated surpluses away on his loss making dalliances. We've got no money, hence the reason we've had to employ L platers or failed hacks under his watch.
until Covid, was the club lying that it's financial state was very good? Chapman repeated over and over that the club was very well positioned financially. I would have thought that was Fagan's main area, also considering the dosh they were supposedly going to contribute to the North Adelaide complex.
 

On The Crouch

All Australian
Oct 1, 2015
828
1,884
AFL Club
Adelaide
As I posted in the priority pick thread, our current percentage ranks us in the vicinity of such luminaries as Neeld-era Melbourne, the inaugural seasons of the expansion clubs and the dying whimpers of Fitzroy. Even still, all of those teams managed to win a game, so we’re potentially setting a new benchmark for awful-ness.

The biggest problem that I can see is that there’s not 1, or even 2/3 defining factors that have led to current events. While I appreciate that a football forum is a melting pot of differing opinions by definition, a scroll through the first page of this board can attribute our current state to:

- Nicks
- Our coaching team as a whole
- Our midfield structure
- Our forward structure
- Lack of overall talent
- Player retention
- Player development
- Drafting under Ogilvie
- List management under Reid
- Selection philosophies/
- Fitness under Hass
- Unaccountability of the board
- Chapman/Fagan/Ricciuto
- General contempt/indifference for fans
- Loss of trust between players & club (the camp)

The scariest part about this? All of these viewpoints have some validity to them to varying degrees, and solving a couple of them will have minimal effect on the club’s fortunes while the others are left unchecked.

I don’t see any way out of this mess without a clean out of the club from the top down, and as we’ve seen already, one of the few things the higher-ups are competent at is covering their own backsides ie the sham review of everything but themselves.

Anyone got any ideas on any meaningful change that can be impacted to stop us circling the drain? As much as I enjoy taking the piss out of the club, it kills me that we’ve turned into the laughing stock/punching bag of the comp.
Thi is a good post. As you’ve pointed out our issues are a combination of many factors. It’s not a matter of only fixing one problem and the rest will fix itself.

Our club needs to have man conversation and admit that they have got it all horribly wrong. The problem is they won’t do that and blame someone else. It’s always someone else’s fault.

I wish I knew where to start to fix this mess. It looks like we need to do another review this year but don’t leave it to the end of the season like last year. We’re half way through the season now so it’s probably a good time to start. Nothing should be off limits - every aspect of the footy department is up for review.

It appears we have so many incompetent people in every key post that it’s going to be hard to fire them all and replace them with competent people all at once. Our brand is completely destroyed and why would any competent person want to come anywhere near the AFC. We will more than likely destroy their reputation making it difficult for them to get another job in the industry. For example, Burton is now working at Thomas Farms, which the AFC may have assisted him with, where he is probably hidden away in corner office where he doesn’t interact with any other employees.

Get the right people in the right positions is a good start but I’m pretty sure that’s what Andrew Fagan said when he first started and we have basically done the opposite.
 

footy4ever

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 23, 2008
20,152
24,766
Adelaide
AFL Club
Adelaide
Burton and Pyke payouts.
Are we blaming this on Fagan? Was it his doing alone that they came to the club? also take into account Pyke actually got us to a GF. I'd imagine the pressure from the usuals would have been immense in any personnel decisions Fagan's been lumped with.
 

jackster83

Rat in a cage
Jul 31, 2007
15,478
23,334
the inside
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Sin City Swamprats, Dethklok
We're too deep in the sh*t now to get out without external help. Our administration couldn't run a bath, and won't be standing aside unless forced to.

The AFL are going to have to step in to assist like they did with GC, Brisbane and Port.
 

footy4ever

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 23, 2008
20,152
24,766
Adelaide
AFL Club
Adelaide
We're too deep in the sh*t now to get out without external help. Our administration couldn't run a bath, and won't be standing aside unless forced to.

The AFL are going to have to step in to assist like they did with GC, Brisbane and Port.
Are you kidding? The AFL and the AFL media are loving every minute of the Crows’ position.
 

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Pilchard_Adams

Premiership Player
Sep 11, 2009
3,866
2,029
AFL Club
Adelaide
There is no coming back from this. If a Pine Forest gets Pine Beetle, all infected trees are cut down and burned. Scrap all the football department, and basically start a new
 

Mego Red

The Artist Formerly Known As Kristof
Oct 3, 2003
20,004
20,824
The East Coast
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Soft spot for Brisbane
Fagan earns near $1m/year and promised the best footy dept in the land as that was his skill. He sits on both footy strategy and list management committees, so is part of the 2 groups that set the direction of football. He's a massive part of the problem, but guess what, he's on staff, so not going anywhere as we piss any football generated surpluses away on his loss making dalliances. We've got no money, hence the reason we've had to employ L platers or failed hacks under his watch.
I think he goes. It's time for Vozzo or Noble.

That being said, I don't think he gets paid that much (our turnover isn't high enough to have a CEO on $1m), and I don't think the other projects lose money.

I DO think they're evidence of the fact everyone thought the football operations were hunky dory and they had capacity to spend time on other projects. They didn't.

And we BETTER still have cash. We have training facilities that are shithouse and we need to spend some cash improving the talent at this club.
 

kirky

Brownlow Medallist
Dec 29, 2000
13,793
10,773
AFL Club
Adelaide
Well first step is for a total clean out.

Hope everyone on here is prepared to go to the AGM. It is the one time you do get to voice your opinion. If you aren’t prepared to go then shut the fu** up and stop whinging.

Mind you, watch the f***ers try and do a Zoom AGM or abandon it totally. Wouldn’t put it past them.
 

thebirdman 24

Premiership Player
Oct 8, 2007
3,092
2,281
Melbourne
AFL Club
Adelaide
Roo and Chapman need to be first to go. We cannot have them have any say in any future apointees. From there we should start looking at Fagan (he gets a pass mostly on thid board but he has been there long enough for a CEO and taken us backwards), then the football department Hart, Clarke, Godden, Hass etc. We should not be above looking at list management and recruiting as well. It might just be a case of them being underfunded due to us focusing on Esports or Baseball or whatever other pointless crap we waste time/resources on.


On SM-A205YN using BigFooty.com mobile app
 

Shaz2012

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 15, 2012
7,324
7,639
AFL Club
Adelaide
To answer the thread title question, I reckon we are 5 years away from coming back from this, better and stronger than ever.... starting from tomorrow. The problem is tomorrow never comes. In this case, tomorrow will come (or the 5 year timeframe starts) as soon as we clear out bad appointments at the board/management level. In the history of our club, we have never done what we need to do now. But if somehow that happens and cycle of boys club appointments is broken and this club finally runs like a professional sports club with a million loyal fans, then I am pretty excited about our future. I actually feel like that 5 year journey will be enjoyable.

I'd like us to use Brisbane as our model. I really like the mix of senior bodies that they put around their young players as they developed them. Guys like Hodge might have been obvious, but even second-tier guys like Josh Walker. I especially like the mongrel that they brought into their team. They really brought a hard edge to their game when they had really young bodies and I feel like they toned that down/moved away from that, as their young players matured and the team became more skillful in general. I feel like we have seen Brisbane change their style at least three times between where they were when Fagan first came and each time seemed to make perfect sense given the state of their list. Very well done by them. I reckon we are 5 years away from that... starting from tomorrow.
 

BACCS

BigFooty Juggernaut
May 10, 2009
44,196
23,191
Adelaide Oval
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
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To answer the thread title question, I reckon we are 5 years away from coming back from this, better and stronger than ever.... starting from tomorrow. The problem is tomorrow never comes. In this case, tomorrow will come (or the 5 year timeframe starts) as soon as we clear out bad appointments at the board/management level. In the history of our club, we have never done what we need to do now. But if somehow that happens and cycle of boys club appointments is broken and this club finally runs like a professional sports club with a million loyal fans, then I am pretty excited about our future. I actually feel like that 5 year journey will be enjoyable.

I'd like us to use Brisbane as our model. I really like the mix of senior bodies that they put around their young players as they developed them. Guys like Hodge might have been obvious, but even second-tier guys like Josh Walker. I especially like the mongrel that they brought into their team. They really brought a hard edge to their game when they had really young bodies and I feel like they toned that down/moved away from that, as their young players matured and the team became more skillful in general. I feel like we have seen Brisbane change their style at least three times between where they were when Fagan first came and each time seemed to make perfect sense given the state of their list. Very well done by them. I reckon we are 5 years away from that... starting from tomorrow.
Brisbane had to be saved by the AFL and has been given significant leg ups that our club will never see, unless that happens it’s a bit hard to use them as a barometer.
 

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