How do we improve our hardness?

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Blueboy43

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Big Body Players / Monsters

A friend of mine made a very valid point that Carlton have no Big body players that are pyshcally strong and what we call Monsters that impact the contest.

The only player that comes to mind is Nick Duigan. Robbo's attack on the footy is great but i would not call him a monster. If you look at the Top 6 sides that have a few Big Body / Monster players.

West Coast
- Dean Cox
- Jack Darling
- Beau Waters
- Darren Glass

Collingwood
- Chris Tarrant
- Darren Jolly
- Dane Swann
- Travis Cloke
- Chris Dawes

Adelaide
- Kurt Tippet
- Ben Ruttan
- Scott Thompson
- Sam Jacobs

Hawthorn
- Jarrod Roughead
- Brad Swell
- Luke Hodge
- Jordan Lewis

Essendon
- Steward Clameri
- Jobe Waston
- Michael Hurley
- Heath Hocking

Geelong
- Jimmy Bartel
- Tom Hawkins
- James Podsiadly
- Paul Chapman
 

Claypigeon

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Re: Big Body Players / Monsters

Who, Hawkins, Chapman, Podsiadly, Selwood, Bartel, Scarlett, West, Stevie J and anyone else I forgot??
I was guessing his point was that:

7th Carlton 5W/3L and 122%
10th Geelong 4W/4L and 101%

Geelong have looked slow and soft at times this year too, yet have hard bodies. ..

I'd argue that the following are all big (not tall) bodied players in our normal B22:

Kreuzer
Gibbs
Murphy
Carrazzo
Jammo
Duigan

Although Kruezer (not on the weekend anyway), Murphy (not anymore) and Carrots (not ATM) seem to be able to do it. .. it doesn't seem to be Gibbs' style. .. Jammo/Duigan are suffering from a lack of conditioning. .. and only two of them have decent height. ..
 

Just Kreuzing

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Re: Big Body Players / Monsters

I was guessing his point was that:

7th Carlton 5W/3L and 122%
10th Geelong 4W/4L and 101%

Geelong have looked slow and soft at times this year too, yet have hard bodies. ..

I'd argue that the following are all big (not tall) bodied players in our normal B22:

Kreuzer
Gibbs
Murphy
Carrazzo
Jammo
Duigan

Although Kruezer (not on the weekend anyway), Murphy (not anymore) and Carrots (not ATM) seem to be able to do it. .. it doesn't seem to be Gibbs' style. .. Jammo/Duigan are suffering from a lack of conditioning. .. and only two of them have decent height. ..
I believe Geelong are playing better footy then us though at present, their effort against Collingwood on friday was ok, the Pies would flog us at the moment.

That list of players for us doesn't include 1 player with the real killer instinct, Carrazzo would be the closest.
 

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Blue since 72

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It's not about big hard bodies. The link TG posted is spot on.

Losing Carrots cannot be under estimated and our ruckmen are completely out of wack with our mids at stoppages.

We're the same as Freo in having a massive hitout advantage most games yet losing the clearance count by a fair way.

There's also been alot of fumbling around stoppages of late where our guys are treating the ball like a hot iron; trying to go or give off before they even have control or just firing handballs and kicks out to noone in particular.

Have another look at the Pies game. Boys in close, quick and accurate ball movement to the outside, hard running to make space.

It's like they've been beaten around the head by the media and the coaches about how the Bombers found them out and how they'll get it every week from now on that they've become spooked.

We're not getting in close at stoppages, we're not getting in front of our opponents, We're not controlling the ball, riding the tackle, dishing it off to a team mate and not spreading (all of this we were doing in the first three games).

We are losing games through the middle pure and simple and it's not because we don't have massive units in there.

Until we address our stoppage work we're going to struggle.
 

gbatman

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It's not about big hard bodies. The link TG posted is spot on.

Losing Carrots cannot be under estimated and our ruckmen are completely out of wack with our mids at stoppages.
It's all about this. We are losing, not because we aren't having a go and are soft or any cliche crap that is being spilled on here.

I liked reading the "still got the blues" article in the link posted before. The person who wrote that knows his stuff.

The fact every one can see is that we were playing really good attractive footy and winning. Now we are losing and it's obvious that the reason is in the midfield with our lack of clearances. Contrary to what a lot of people are saying on here, the reason is not the players endeavor. This is what every one would like to believe but that's just crap supporters who are blinded by passion and a lack of knowledge about the game come out with when we lose.

The two reasons we are losing now are:

1. We have been figured out. We were trained up to be runners in the preseason. Slimmed down and run into the ground. The first few rounds we got away with it. We played some sides who were poor at the time. Richmond, Collingwood and Brisbane were poor early and are still middle of the road.

Turns out that not that many sides, if any, have won flags purely by being a good running side with a ton of light weight, quick players. In fact the grand final is the toughest hardest slog a player will ever experience. From what I have seen they are an arm wrestle won on brute strength and hard contested work. Not an environment with time and space, something we are dependant on to win games.

Richmond had no plan at the time, just hunt the ball and hope for the best. Collingwood were much the same except their laziness and lack of physical pressure and ball going down would have disappointed them. The let the game become very open. Brisbane had come up with the game plan teams are using to beat us but weren't able to maintain it in the second half. Freo did but they haven't got the big strong bodies some of the other teams have and also kicked themselves out of that game. We should have lost to them.

Essendon finally opened us up for all to see. Sure we had injuries during the game and losing Carrazzo, a rare big strong skilled centerman, hurt us. We have been 1, figured us out and 2, we were gifted with some easy teams early as it turns out and 3, lost a big strong body with no one decent to replace them.

Teams have seen that if you leave space around contests and don't put on body we will carve them up but they have also seen that we aren't a strong or big side. Teams are getting more numbers to contests and stoppages. Teams are getting more players out wide around the contest so when we do get it and look to handball to a player in space that there is no space. Our guys in close are small and lack strength so the opposition are putting on more body and literally blocking our players in close, stopping them running through the contest and stopping us moving how we want and literally pushing us around.


2. The other reason we are losing is because of point 1. Because most of our attacks start down back we are doing twice as much running as we should. The midfield does surprisingly very little running when you are winning the clearances. The effort a midfield has to do when the ball goes into the oppositions forward line is huge. They have to run back then run hard forward. This means we are running out of gas lat in games/quarters. It also means we are getting nothing from our forward press because tired players can't set it up quick enough and tired players eventually stop getting back into the defence to help out and this makes the defence and the team look bad.

Solution.
Long term.
The only solution is to wait until this coming preseason and get the players on a decent weights program. Players always lose muscle mass once the season starts, they have to start round 1 excessively big.
Judd is struggling this year because he did his shoulder, hasn't been able to do the strength work and is getting pushed around. Who ever decided to shape us into distance runners instead of footballers should be looked at as a person who needs replacing, along with our strength and conditioning people. We have a world class facility and yet we are one of the smallest and weakest size in the competition, it's disappointing. we also need to start drafting strongly built onballers.

Short Term.
In the meantime we need to play Mclean. Yeah I don't really rate him but at least he provides a bigger stronger body in there and is playing well in the VFL unlike many of them. Someone who can push back and not get pushed around, who can stand up in a tackle, who can lay an effective tackle etc. We are damned if we do and damned if we don't. It's also time to move Touhy on the ball. He's skilled, strong, can tackle and can hold his feet under pressure and will not get pushed around, time he learnt to play there. Send Lucas back or play Bootsma in defence. It's also a shame we delisted Cachia. Didn't have a heap of skill but had a crack, was strong, would be in the team this week unquestionably. Yarran should be tried on the ball, he's strong, he's solid, he's powerful but not sure if he's hard at it enough. We need to find these things out.
 
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