How do we improve our hardness?

[The Coach]

We need to be much harder at the football and obvious inclusions to remedy the problem are not apparent.

It is however such a priority that I will entertain all the following but with diminishing conviction as we go down the list:

- Ellard stays in the team for the rest of the year

- play Kreuze as a midfielder (Hammer with Warnock to come are just as good in the ruck) It will give him a chance to concentrate on what he does best ie get in and under. How other teams will counter his second strength ie marking, will provide plenty of headaches for them

- tell Gibbs his role is in and under mid and will be judged on that first and foremost (have seen him do it)

- train Tuohy to play as a mid with grunt

- tell JR to get some sh1t into his game or he is gone

- give McLean an extended run in the team

Other ideas anyone?

ps Remind Jeffy and Eddie how well they used to pressure and tackle

 

[skadoosh]

Do not know what has happened to out structure.
Especially tonight.
Where are the kicks long into our forward 50 directed to Hammer/Waite/Kreuz with Betts or Garlett hanging off ready to crumb the ball.

 

[Malifice]

You cant teach courage.

You have to instill it; generally by making the person more scared of letting his mates down than of injury/ pain. And the players need to want it.

This current mob needs to be flogged. Harshly.

Im serious. More than a few blokes in our 'best 22' need a serious kick up the ass.

 

[CaptainCharisma]

We need to be much harder at the football and obvious inclusions to remedy the problem are not apparent.

It is however such a priority that I will entertain all the following but with diminishing conviction as we go down the list:

- Ellard stays in the team for the rest of the year

- play Kreuze as a midfielder (Hammer with Warnock to come are just as good in the ruck) It will give him a chance to concentrate on what he does best ie get in and under. How other teams will counter his second strength ie marking, will provide plenty of headaches for them

- tell Gibbs his role is in and under mid and will be judged on that first and foremost (have seen him do it)

- train Tuohy to play as a mid with grunt

- tell JR to get some sh1t into his game or he is gone

- give McLean an extended run in the team

Other ideas anyone?

ps Remind Jeffy and Eddie how well they used to pressure and tackle

Agree Ellard to gain an extended run, he had to be the obvious replacement once Carrazzo went down.

And that's about all I agree with here..
- Kruezer will not play as a mid..
- Brock McLean will not play more than 2 more games in a Carlton jumper, he is too good for VFL but too slow for the AFL
- Jeffy tackled tonight, but was clumsy, gave away a few high tackle frees, can be corrected
- Gibbs was definitely found wanting at the contest on a few occasions tonight, and unfortunately he just doesn't look like hardening up any time soon. He was given the opportunity in the guts when Murphy was shut down to prove himself, but no dice.
He looks to be forever an elite outside ball user from a half back flank.
- Why train Tuohy as a mid when Joseph showed we have no other specialist players to stop crumbing forwards? He needs to continue to develop in that role, where the team needs him.
- Russell was average tonight, don't understand your point of getting sh1t?

 

[The Coach]

Do not know what has happened to out structure.
Especially tonight.
Where are the kicks long into our forward 50 directed to Hammer/Waite/Kreuz with Betts or Garlett hanging off ready to crumb the ball.

I do not intend this to be another rant thread about tonight's game. Stay on topic please posters as I think it is a glaring flaw that the other clubs have identified

Could be a valuable addition to the rooms but I think we have a personnel problem too

 

[thylacine60]

What happened to the HTFU wristbands?

 

[The Coach]

Agree Ellard to gain an extended run, he had to be the obvious replacement once Carrazzo went down.

And that's about all I agree with here..
- Kruezer will not play as a mid..
- Brock McLean will not play more than 2 more games in a Carlton jumper, he is too good for VFL but too slow for the AFL
- Jeffy tackled tonight, but was clumsy, gave away a few high tackle frees, can be corrected
- Gibbs was definitely found wanting at the contest on a few occasions tonight, and unfortunately he just doesn't look like hardening up any time soon. He was given the opportunity in the guts when Murphy was shut down to prove himself, but no dice.
He looks to be forever an elite outside ball user from a half back flank.
- Why train Tuohy as a mid when Joseph showed we have no other specialist players to stop crumbing forwards? He needs to continue to develop in that role, where the team needs him.
- Russell was average tonight, don't understand your point of getting sh1t?

I probably should have pointed out that I think our greatest need for hardness is on the ball. That is why I mention challenging Gibbs (can remember him doing it against Richmond one time) moving Tuohy and being creative with Kreuze and our abundance of rucks.

Jeff is not a patch on what he has shown in the past and getting sh1t in your game is a crude reference to meaness

 

[skadoosh]

I do not intend this to be another rant thread about tonight's game. Stay on topic please posters as I think it is a glaring flaw that the other clubs have identified



Could be a valuable addition to the rooms but I think we have a personnel problem too

oops, posted in the wrong thread.

 

[The Coach]

You need to see a Optometrists if you think we give Mclean a run.

I said the further down the list one goes - the less I believed in the option!

I do however believe it is such a desperate problem (we only have a couple of years left of Judd at his best) and that we have so few hard bodies, I would explore all options

 

[CaptainCharisma]

I probably should have pointed out that I think our greatest need for hardness is on the ball. That is why I mention challenging Gibbs (can remember him doing it against Richmond one time) moving Tuohy and being creative with Kreuze and our abundance of rucks.

Jeff is not a patch on what he has shown in the past and getting sh1t in your game is a crude reference to meaness

I love our passion on this board and maybe I am too much of an optimist but I really think we can look at this game as a blip along the way. I remember feeling so angry after the Bulldogs loss last year but since then and looking at how little it meant to overall way the boys fought it out in September my outlook is more positive!
Don't get me wrong I am extremely disappointed, but I'm backing the boys in to answer back.

I really don't think Gibbs can turn the 'soft' side out of his game, he seems to avoid contact at the contest at all costs! In my eyes I can't see him developing past an elite ball using HBF. I hope I am wrong.

I think once Warnock regains fitness he will become our no.1 ruck, which will allow Kruezer to spend more time forward and hopefully clunk some marks in the 50 which we lacked tonight.
As good as Hammer has been I can't see him turning in a performance (ala Warnock vs Essendon 2011 Elim Final) in a final.

Jeffy tried hard tonight, especially with his spread when he was high up the ground, and wasn't one I would point out first in the match review.

 

[audas]

Was raising the issue of our softness and how obvious it was to other clubs who were simply taking the game up to us as they KNEW we were soft and winning - made it plain as day straight after the Essendon game - that was all that was needed to know we are a team of well, night clubbers.


Ratts has a lot to answer for in this regard - let me explain, he appears to be highly tactical (in his mind), all stats, figures, methodology, style, routines, practices - and it almost appears to be reactionary against the way he was coached - the idea of toughness hard at it gritty football played from deep within the visceral bowels of a mans inner core are no longer relevant - get the STRUCTURES RIGHT and thats all there is too is most definitely HIS mantra.

Ratts - listen up mate - Carlton are a bunch of wet rags who need some serious toughening up.

Malthouse KNOWS how to do this - its not just about making them gorillas, its not about toughness per se, its about being a man. Overcoming your fear, rising to challenges and being a better person - finding inspiration from great literature, films, history is incredibly important - Malthouse was ALWAYS doing it (he was a huge military fan, especially the great wars), and we all know Lethals penchant for finding things like "IF IT BLEEDS WE CAN KILL IT".

This is where it is being lost - they are being coached and trained into the ground - and I think it is impacting their natural game style which is an important issue with so many naturals like garlett.

Anyway - they should all have to read A.B.Facey, Fatal Shore, Morrison of Beijing, and maybe even Shantaram.

But get them reading something which will blow their brains away as to how tough life really is - if not watch the movie.

If not, give them some hard graft - dig a trench at 4 am in winter, sleep in it.

 

[DJMacca]

I love our passion on this board and maybe I am too much of an optimist but I really think we can look at this game as a blip along the way. I remember feeling so angry after the Bulldogs loss last year but since then and looking at how little it meant to overall way the boys fought it out in September my outlook is more positive!
Don't get me wrong I am extremely disappointed, but I'm backing the boys in to answer back.

I really don't think Gibbs can turn the 'soft' side out of his game, he seems to avoid contact at the contest at all costs! In my eyes I can't see him developing past an elite ball using HBF. I hope I am wrong.

I think once Warnock regains fitness he will become our no.1 ruck, which will allow Kruezer to spend more time forward and hopefully clunk some marks in the 50 which we lacked tonight.
As good as Hammer has been I can't see him turning in a performance (ala Warnock vs Essendon 2011 Elim Final) in a final.

Jeffy tried hard tonight, especially with his spread when he was high up the ground, and wasn't one I would point out first in the match review.

I appreciate you been positive but the fact is losing these kind of games is costly.
Do you really want another cut throat final interstate again?

 

[CaptainCharisma]

I appreciate you been positive but the fact is losing these kind of games is costly.
Do you really want another cut throat final interstate again?

Facts are we aren't going to go undefeated. I am now just backing us in to win the tough 50/50 games mid-year ie Hawthorn, Collingwood and West Coast at Subi.

Top 4 is still a must and I believe top 2 is possible. Only Round 7

 

[The Coach]

Was raising the issue of our softness and how obvious it was to other clubs who were simply taking the game up to us as they KNEW we were soft and winning - made it plain as day straight after the Essendon game - that was all that was needed to know we are a team of well, night clubbers.


Ratts has a lot to answer for in this regard - let me explain, he appears to be highly tactical (in his mind), all stats, figures, methodology, style, routines, practices - and it almost appears to be reactionary against the way he was coached - the idea of toughness hard at it gritty football played from deep within the visceral bowels of a mans inner core are no longer relevant - get the STRUCTURES RIGHT and thats all there is too is most definitely HIS mantra.

Ratts - listen up mate - Carlton are a bunch of wet rags who need some serious toughening up.

Malthouse KNOWS how to do this - its not just about making them gorillas, its not about toughness per se, its about being a man. Overcoming your fear, rising to challenges and being a better person - finding inspiration from great literature, films, history is incredibly important - Malthouse was ALWAYS doing it (he was a huge military fan, especially the great wars), and we all know Lethals penchant for finding things like "IF IT BLEEDS WE CAN KILL IT".

Yes I think Malthouse demanded his players were men of character on the field, I think Clarkson would be the same as would Scott. Geelong and us both showed a lack of character this round and it will be interesting to see how the two teams bounce back next week against good opposition. I do however believe that despite how high we may bounce - we have to address a problem with the make up of our midfield if we are to go places

 

[Malifice]

This:

There is a growing feeling among clubs that Carlton lacks a general menace and aggression that good sides have.

It may not be fair but perception is reality and clubs are playing to it.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...rlton-blues-20120514-1yneb.html#ixzz1urNj9FXf

Is a fair comment.

The Hawks have been doing it to us for years.

 

[Just Kreuzing]

Need to build up our bodies and recruit the bigger bodied types I think, these are not going to help us short term though.

Need some masterstrokes by our recruiting department to identify someone like the Swans did when they saw potential in Josh Kennedy and offered him good money to fix a specific need for them.

Got to be bold and aggressive in getting players to our club who can help us.

Is there any big bodied types that can help us in the short term currently playing in the Nth Blues who can develop into a role similar to what Hurn or Beau Waters etc play??

 

[1980GFVideo]

Is Mitch Robinson in the leadership group?

Should be if you want to push hardness. Love his style.

Even that goal to StKilda where he only got the heel of the Saints player and tripped him up, the desire to run hard at him even though there was bugger all chance of catching was fantastic.

 

[jezzatigerbrent]

Can we clone Carrazzo..

 

[Silvagnis]

All that fancy food Jason Johnson cooks in the club's cafe has clearly turned them into pampered brats. Don't they realise that Hayes, Selwood and Dangerfield only have raw meat and tepid water for lunch to hard them up. Ratten is so soft on these boys. Raw steaks from now on. And no one plays unless they grow a mullet or shaves their head so they look like Ivan Maric or Barry Hall.

Premature thread. We've just dropped off to lose by five goals. after we've become the hunted. It's mental with other clubs coming at us like we're the team to beat. It's not physical after we did Collingwood earlier this year with a tough performance. We're copping that now. It's not as simple as getting bigger bodies and blaming the recruiters. The likes of Duigan and Russell aren't small, just out of form due to different reasons. Ellard is smaller like Murphy, but has intensity and want.

The club just needs to re-discover that hunger they showed against Collingwood and WC in the finals. No one expected us to play well under the pump at Subi and beat the Pies by ten goals. Collingwood aren't shot because of that game. We need to learn play their own game again whilst having everyone coming at them hard like a top four side. Get back to basics where we played hard and attacking footy. The results will take care of themselves. As long as we kick straight and improve our inside fifties.

 

[AndyLucimitis]

Hardness certainly can be improved (maybe 'taught' if that's the right word).

If anyone remembers Essendon around the 1997-98 period they were soft - said so themselves.

But they were able to change and become one tough unit during 1999-2001.

A lot of what we see as 'hardness' is actually 'confidence'. When a team is confident and playing well you aren't second guessing yourself and taking that extra moment to make a decision and fumbling which then looks like softness.

Unfortunately I think this comes back to the coaching. To me, we never look 'well drilled' like maybe a Sydney or Adelaide team might look. Even GWS seemed better drilled than us last week and more confident in where they were supposed to run and what to do with the ball.

 

[djw1952]

This:



Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...rlton-blues-20120514-1yneb.html#ixzz1urNj9FXf

Is a fair comment.

The Hawks have been doing it to us for years.

I think that they have beaten us 9 times in a row, because they harass us, niggle us, and cramp our running game. CARLTON are just not physical enough, and the BUMBERS showed us up in that department when they beat us. Too many outside runners that are good with the ball in hand, but not good at getting in and getting their hands dirty. I have always felt that RATTS wants a team of flankers to play keepings off, and W.HUGHES was always very good at delivering that type of player to the coach, but we need more ROBBO types who will risk their bodies for the team......not just collect stats. The loss tonight has taken the gloss off the progress that we have made this year, so it seems that they now have to start again..........I really think that they lost this game last week when they played so casually against the GIANTS. It`s VERY hard to get your attitude back,in time to play a desperate opponent like the SAINTS were always going to be tonight.....
they should trade J.RUSSELL for another pick in this years draft if they can.........imo

 

[Boltfromtheblue]

Punching Milne may not improve hardness overall but would make me feel a lot better.

 

[djw1952]

All that fancy food Jason Johnson cooks in the club's cafe has clearly turned them into pampered brats. Don't they realise that Hayes, Selwood and Dangerfield only have raw meat and tepid water for lunch to hard them up. Ratten is so soft on these boys. Raw steaks from now on. And no one plays unless they grow a mullet or shaves their head so they look like Ivan Maric or Barry Hall.

Premature thread. We've just dropped off to lose by five goals. after we've become the hunted. It's mental with other clubs coming at us like we're the team to beat. It's not physical after we did Collingwood earlier this year with a tough performance. We're copping that now. It's not as simple as getting bigger bodies and blaming the recruiters. The likes of Duigan and Russell aren't small, just out of form due to different reasons. Ellard is smaller like Murphy, but has intensity and want.

The club just needs to re-discover that hunger they showed against Collingwood and WC in the finals. No one expected us to play well under the pump at Subi and beat the Pies by ten goals. Collingwood aren't shot because of that game. We need to learn play their own game again whilst having everyone coming at them hard like a top four side. Get back to basics where we played hard and attacking footy. The results will take care of themselves. As long as we kick straight and improve our inside fifties.

sounds reasonable, because we have taken our foot off the pedal and the team was better when we were the hunters and not the hunted, but they had better get going again quickly, with the CROWS on the way and some other tough games down the track....especially the HAWS, and also WEST COAST over in the west. Too much left to too few lately....?

 

[JAMSTER]

Onballers refuse to run back and defend. Happy to push forward and score the cheap goal.Toughness is about doing the hard things. Mitch Robinson needs to get his mojo back and start going hard at the ball.
He has lost that impact he had last season which lifted everyone else. Bower lacks the composure to play as a defender. He panics when he gets the ball and 80% of the time he will turn over the ball. If I was an opposition coach I would be isloating him every week and play through him.Thornton has shown he likes to kick a goal and he has those long (hunteresque) arms. I would be playing him in the foward line floating around. Waite has to play in defence where he can run at the ball and give some drive. Finally get Judd to rest in the forward line and use his strong marking and pace. At this stage Blues are pretenders, and will continue to beat up the bottom teams but will not be able to beat any of the real contenders.

 

[AndyLucimitis]

Onballers refuse to run back and defend. Happy to push forward and score the cheap goal.Toughness is about doing the hard things. Mitch Robinson needs to get his mojo back and start going hard at the ball.
He has lost that impact he had last season which lifted everyone else. Bower lacks the composure to play as a defender. He panics when he gets the ball and 80% of the time he will turn over the ball. If I was an opposition coach I would be isloating him every week and play through him.Thornton has shown he likes to kick a goal and he has those long (hunteresque) arms. I would be playing him in the foward line floating around. Waite has to play in defence where he can run at the ball and give some drive. Finally get Judd to rest in the forward line and use his strong marking and pace. At this stage Blues are pretenders, and will continue to beat up the bottom teams but will not be able to beat any of the real contenders.

As much has I'd like to tell you to piss off....I have to agree with most of what you said.

However, don't agree with Waite to the backline. I take the Robert Walls viewpoint that if I was an opposition coach I'd be happy to see him line up at CHB.

Whilst poor last night I think he does provide an X-factor and can be hard to match up on. I agree though that Thornton should also rotate through there. I was at the GWS game and was surprised he was dropped. Thought he was shining light for us up forward and got to the right positions.


... oh and piss off !!