Analysis How do we play 4 quarters instead of 1?

[FireKrakouer]

G'day pies fans,

Firstly I'll be upfront that, despite loving the pies for decades, I'm rather ignorant in terms of footy strategy. So please offer your own theories and don't hate on me if I'm way off track here.

My feelings on our team often starting strong and then fading, including a certain recent grand final that we would all rather not think of:

Fitness/conditioning: while we all find our consistently lengthy injury list unacceptable, there are other threads to discuss that. How about general player endurance? While we do have a couple of players with epic tanks, is our average player fitness level sub standard? Leading to second half fading.

Coaching: are our strategies harming us here? I love an aggressive and exciting start to the game, but are opposition coaches playing a style of "rope a dope" against us here?

Psychology: in my naive opinion, this is the biggest factor. Every team is impacted by "momentum". Every key forward or defender tends to play on confidence (or a lack thereof) throughout a match.

I recall Trav Cloke saying in an interview back in the day, that he'd been trained to use meditation and imagery when lining up for a set shot. Which was at the same time that his accuracy went from poor to abysmal. I hope we didn't pay too much for that psychologist.

What realistic actions do you believe the club should take moving forward?

 

[TradeDraft]

Pick Better Teams and get a Forward Line

 

[Markfs]

So other coaches are trying to start slow?

 

[Carringbush2010]

G'day pies fans,

Firstly I'll be upfront that, despite loving the pies for decades, I'm rather ignorant in terms of footy strategy. So please offer your own theories and don't hate on me if I'm way off track here.

My feelings on our team often starting strong and then fading, including a certain recent grand final that we would all rather not think of:

Fitness/conditioning: while we all find our consistently lengthy injury list unacceptable, there are other threads to discuss that. How about general player endurance? While we do have a couple of players with epic tanks, is our average player fitness level sub standard? Leading to second half fading.

Coaching: are our strategies harming us here? I love an aggressive and exciting start to the game, but are opposition coaches playing a style of "rope a dope" against us here?

Psychology: in my naive opinion, this is the biggest factor. Every team is impacted by "momentum". Every key forward or defender tends to play on confidence (or a lack thereof) throughout a match.

I recall Trav Cloke saying in an interview back in the day, that he'd been trained to use meditation and imagery when lining up for a set shot. Which was at the same time that his accuracy went from poor to abysmal. I hope we didn't pay too much for that psychologist.

What realistic actions do you believe the club should take moving forward?

I'm glad someone put these questions up, I'll admit I'm no strategist Einstien either but I can see flaws as to why we don't play 4 qtrs like we do the first.

• Firstly, I see in part the reason is that our manic style is not sustainable for the whole game. It's too taxing, build up a lead then defend, my theory is this is by deliberation. Therefore that game style is flawed.
• By extension, while that plan can't be sustained for long enough, it is very difficult to defeat and is not personnel reliant like the kick mark style of a wc or giants. That system flatters our personnel, we purely don't have the same amount of talent of contending teams. So somewhat our injury / fitness preparation is part of the problem. Even then our best potential list does not match the best potential list of the contenders.
• wc figured out how to beat our contest and control game (after the manic lead build, run and gun style early). Move the ball with speed, it takes away our suffocation game and allows them the perfect i50 entries they had yesterday.
• The 'psychology' one is difficult to determine, on face value it looks like there is a lack of killer instinct, it looks like we play too sociably. We don't want it enough, and a problem 'in between the ears'.

I don't think we're in the window anymore, not unless absolutely every planet in the universe aligns for us which never happens coz Collingwood. I'd like to see a regen / rebuild. Start afresh, we've got a core to build a flag team - even if that means no Pendles, there's enough to achieve it without bottoming out.

 

[Markfs]

people do realise that there are two teams playing the actual match...

 

[Carringbush2010]

people do realise that there are two teams playing the actual match...

Correct and the better one usually wins.

 

[BringouttheGimp]

Manic style doesn't imply you play that style of game all over the pitch.. I just can not make any logical sense of dropping your players back as much as Bucks does.. say we possess the ball in our back 50.. we still have to go the length of the pitch to score.. and what does that mean.. more of a chance of the attack breaking down.. press on the bastards high on the pitch.. and it's one hand pass or kick into our forward 50.. rather than 10 hand passes and dinky lil kicks coming out of our back 50 to get passed the ******* centre..

The whole idea is to possess the ball as close to our goal as possible.. and this manic game plan works a treat.. you're working half the pitch.. you're not gasping for breath running the length of it.

 

[BringouttheGimp]

The best defensive team in the competition? You know what that's telling me.. a team that expects to keep possession of the pill running the length of the pitch.. that's a big problem.

I don't want to be the best defensive team in the competition.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Manic style doesn't imply you play that style of game all over the pitch.. I just can not make any logical sense of dropping your players back as much as Bucks does.. say we possess the ball in our back 50.. we still have to go the length of the pitch to score.. and what does that mean.. more of a chance of the attack breaking down.. press on the bastards high on the pitch.. and it's one hand pass or kick into our forward 50.. rather than 10 hand passes and dinky lil kicks coming out of our back 50 to get passed the ******* centre..

The whole idea is to possess the ball as close to our goal as possible.. and this manic game plan works a treat.. you're working half the pitch.. you're not gasping for breath running the length of it.

Spot on Gimpy, the reason Bucks drops players back is to avoid pressing too high up, if we did we'd see what we saw in 17. We'd be exposed if we didn't win ball going the other way.

So yes that manic style does work, rips teams apart. The problem though is having to guard space behind the ball so we don't get exposed hence that manic style is taxing, very taxing and in part the reason we can't sustain. The other part, in theory at least is if you have a good oppo that uses ball speed to avoid our suffocation game - like wc yesterday.

Not sure of the fix but for now it looks like it covers our list deficiency but it has flaws.

 

[Chief Ten Beers]

Team half full, or half empty of downhill skiers. Case closed.

 

[BringouttheGimp]

Spot on Gimpy, the reason Bucks drops players back is to avoid pressing too high up, if we did we'd see what we saw in 17. We'd be exposed if we didn't win ball going the other way.

So yes that manic style does work, rips teams apart. The problem though is having to guard space behind the ball so we don't get exposed hence that manic style is taxing, very taxing and in part the reason we can't sustain. The other part, in theory at least is if you have a good oppo that uses ball speed to avoid our suffocation game - like wc yesterday.

Not sure of the fix but for now it looks like it covers our list deficiency but it has flaws.

The whole idea is to outscore your opposition.. * it.. if they catch us on the break and score.. so be it.

What's more taxing on the body.. pressing players back.. defending like dogs.. possessing the pill and trying to run it the length of the pitch.. or pressing high.. swarming the opposition in the guts and half forward and s**t like that.. possessing the pill for a coupla of possessions and a forward entry.. or just an out and shot at the big sticks?

 

[Carringbush2010]

The whole idea is to outscore your opposition.. fu** it.. if they catch us on the break and score.. so be it.

What's more taxing on the body.. pressing players back.. defending like dogs.. possessing the pill and trying to run it the length of the pitch.. or pressing high.. swarming the opposition in the guts and half forward and sh*t like that.. possessing the pill for a coupla of possessions and a forward entry.. or just an out and shot at the big sticks?

But if we push too high, we'll get scored against - heavily, ala 2017. We just don't have the cattle to go mano a mano against the best mids in a forward press situation.

Wc actually used ball speed to get past our phone box suffocation game, that doesn't normally happen and it gave them training drill transition i50. Normally we beat up teams around the ball and play keepings off trying to defend that early ballistic game that gives us a lead.

Either way the plan is flawed coz it can't be sustained, and the reason for our flawed plan it to cover list deficiencies.

 

[FireKrakouer]

So other coaches are trying to start slow?

I acknowledged in the OP that I'm no expert on footy. Is it likely that opposition coaches account for our manic first quarters?

 

[BringouttheGimp]

But if we push too high, we'll get scored against - heavily, ala 2017. We just don't have the cattle to go mano a mano against the best mids in a forward press situation.

Wc actually used ball speed to get past our phone box suffocation game, that doesn't normally happen and it gave them training drill transition i50. Normally we beat up teams around the ball and play keepings off trying to defend that early ballistic game that gives us a lead.

Either way the plan is flawed coz it can't be sustained, and the reason for our flawed plan it to cover list deficiencies.

I'd rather play a manic style.. expose our list deficiencies.. learn from it.. rather than die a slow death.

They still have to be good enough when we swarm em.. to get the pill out.. have their players in good spots to receive it.. and then go forward and beat the likes of Maynard and Moore.

Manic means loose aggressive.. we might concede a coupla more sausage rolls a game playing that style of game.. but I'm banking on the lads to still outscore the opposition. You're effectively swarming on one of their players with 2 or 3 of ours. If the opposition player is good enough to get it out.. good on him. Well done.

 

[Carringbush2010]

I acknowledged in the OP that I'm no expert on footy. Is it likely that opposition coaches account for our manic first quarters?

In part yes, the problem for oppo coaches in our starts is that you can't defend our manic game - it's tactically brilliant. But good teams can overcome our possession / defend game.

For reason I've already stated (or theorized) is we can't sustain that unbeatable game and hence it's flawed for those reasons.

 

[Carringbush2010]

I'd rather play a manic style.. expose our list deficiencies.. learn from it.. rather than die a slow death.

Well it's one or the other, play manic for the whole game (which it seems too taxing anyway) and be exposed going the other way - or we build leads and try and defend it.

Either way neither is a premiership model.

 

[BringouttheGimp]

Well it's one or the other, play manic for the whole game (which it seems too taxing anyway) and be exposed going the other way - or we build leads and try and defend it.

Either way neither is a premiership model.

I just don't think it is.. when you're playing half the pitch.

 

[magpie_marty]

This is a great ?
We can only do whats best with the cattle on the team.
I think we are over rated regarding our player list.

 

[Carringbush2010]

This is a great ?
We can only do whats best with the cattle on the team.
I think we are over rated regarding our player list.

Bingo!