How do we take the next step to a premiership?

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Quigley

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 23, 2006
8,363
8,797
Bangalla
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Brisbane Lions
Believe you’re overselling Ely a fair bit there.

He tested well for speed and leap, but didn’t use those attributes in games as a junior.
Oliver was very late on the scene in his draft year and really jumping up boards with late form. Smith was similar in that regards and both had similar game styles at junior level. Not a lot of exposed form above the Vic under 18 comp. Smith was less well regarded sure but the hope would have been that he would come on like Oliver I am sure.
 

missfinland

Debutant
Aug 13, 2007
125
27
melbourne
AFL Club
West Coast
Oliver was very late on the scene in his draft year and really jumping up boards with late form. Smith was similar in that regards and both had similar game styles at junior level. Not a lot of exposed form above the Vic under 18 comp. Smith was less well regarded sure but the hope would have been that he would come on like Oliver I am sure.
From memory and very hazy at that, Olivier may have only started playing mid year during his draft year and was very very heavy in terms of carrying weight, can't remember if it was injury related or Not even sure he represented VIC Country such was his late start to the year ( I'm being lazy in not checking this ) and I think he stormed home in the Morrish medal which had him storm up the draft boards.
 

POBT

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 10, 2004
24,106
32,242
Brisbane
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Dusty doesn't have a midfield engine. He's not a runner by any stretch of imagination. He worked incredibly hard to get his fitness levels up but he's not an endurance athlete.

Richmond consistently set the game up so he doesn't have to run like a midfielder. They've been pretty public in talking up their other mids who take the defensive running load up to allow Dusty to be Dusty.

Stringer does the same at Essendon. We saw it from DeGoey. Fyfe plays that way at times.

But I also think we can show more imagination than just looking at the premiers and saying "if you don't have that, you can't win." This is not basketball, where you only need one or two superstars and then you build around that. It's a 22 man game and a 40+ player squad. NBA style management doesn't work here.
 

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Nuggo

Club Legend
Aug 24, 2009
2,610
1,575
Mornington
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If we are comparing purely average stats for the year against Melbourne we seems to stack up fairly well. Melbourne hit outs are higher along with a slight increase in handballs, bounces and meterage gained. I think though Melbourne lifted another gear towards the end of the home and away season and the finals. Those separate stats would be interesting to see.
 

Paul Mac

All Australian
Jun 5, 2016
760
1,358
Melbourne
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The positioning thing is confidence that they know that Gawn is going to tap to the right spot. Sometimes the bounce of the ball doesn't go your way but it's a lot easier to be positioned well when your ruckman is the best (by a mile).

Our midfield positioning looks like we need to be very ready to run the other way or tackle. We will need to be exceptionally dynamic in the midfield with hopefully Rayner and Cockatoo (and Berry) contributing since our ruck department isn't going to get stronger.
Yeah not just talking about ball ups, talking about in general all around the ground in general play they just always seem to outnumber their opponents so many times.
 

bungalow_bill

Norm Smith Medallist
Dec 11, 2010
8,267
8,928
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Is that right ? I thought they only had 5 or 6 under 24.

When a team comes along like Melbourne and sweeps all before it there's always an overreaction as to how good they're going to be.

As people have pointed out it's a complex issue to predict the future of any footy team.

But they have a good mix and balance of youth and experience , many very good players and some champions.

It's a little reminiscent as to how we came out of nowhere in 2001. People were still in denial as to how good they were mid season and it seems still.

Interesting to see how they saddle up next year as the hunted.
2011 the Pies were according to some on the verge of a dynasty. Almost unbeatable until the 2011 G F and boom now they are a basket case.
 

martinson

Premiership Player
Apr 4, 2015
4,838
7,462
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
2011 the Pies were according to some on the verge of a dynasty. Almost unbeatable until the 2011 G F and boom now they are a basket case.
It happens often enough . And the real dynasties don't get the recognition until after they've done it.

But to be fair Collingwood coming in to 2011 had never done anything close to what Melbourne have done in 2021.
 

Kernel Kurtz

Club Legend
May 5, 2013
1,450
1,710
AFL Club
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2011 the Pies were according to some on the verge of a dynasty. Almost unbeatable until the 2011 G F and boom now they are a basket case.
2012 pies were fantastic as well, beautiful to watch, well drilled tbh. No idea how far they went that year .
In reality they have been unlucky with injuries , but people seem to forget this and just pin it on Bucks failing.
 

Mighty Lions

Club Legend
Jan 9, 2019
1,072
3,361
AFL Club
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For me our premiership chances lie with improvement from our current list. Sure we need to continue to top up in every draft with the best players according to the picks we have BUT, our list is full of young stars who have plenty of improvement in them before they hit their peak and that is the vital ingredient we need to get us over the line in seasons to come.
I'm excited to see what the next few seasons have in store for us supporters and pretty grateful how our club has built this team we have now. Fagan, Daly, Swan, Wellington, Matthews & Co are all stars and we are in good hands with these guys steering the ship.
 

25 years on

Debutant
Oct 27, 2015
142
151
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
We need players that can be top 22 next year so what most importan, a replacement for Eric, a back up for Oscar, a line breaking defende, a defensive mid. I’m not talking a development player, we are now in the window.
 

Dalions

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 12, 2016
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We need players that can be top 22 next year so what most importan, a replacement for Eric, a back up for Oscar, a line breaking defende, a defensive mid. I’m not talking a development player, we are now in the window.
I would be inclined to think that the replacement for Eric and the Back up for Oscar are likely to be the same person.
 

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BangyBangy

BangyBangyMightyLoins
Oct 16, 2013
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We need players that can be top 22 next year so what most importan, a replacement for Eric, a back up for Oscar, a line breaking defende, a defensive mid. I’m not talking a development player, we are now in the window.
It's a tricky one isn't it. Focus too much on the right here right now & doesn't pay off you shorten your window. Versus playing a longer game to not only be competitive now but ensure that with the young list we have that we will be competing in finals for most years for the next ten years.
 

25 years on

Debutant
Oct 27, 2015
142
151
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
It's a tricky one isn't it. Focus too much on the right here right now & doesn't pay off you shorten your window. Versus playing a longer game to not only be competitive now but ensure that with the young list we have that we will be competing in finals for most years for the next ten years.
Do you think competing in finals for years to come is more important than winning one now?
 

BangyBangy

BangyBangyMightyLoins
Oct 16, 2013
3,546
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Melbourne
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Do you think competing in finals for years to come is more important than winning one now?
The obvious answer is why not have both. I suspect the reality is harder than that.

I just think to make it happen now will take paying overs on trades & cap space that we clearly don't have.

My take is that we're pretty close anyways with our current list. Wouldn't be doing anything drastic at the trade table that's for sure.
 

martinson

Premiership Player
Apr 4, 2015
4,838
7,462
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Brisbane Lions
For me our premiership chances lie with improvement from our current list. Sure we need to continue to top up in every draft with the best players according to the picks we have BUT, our list is full of young stars who have plenty of improvement in them before they hit their peak and that is the vital ingredi
I would be inclined to think that the replacement for Eric and the Back up for Oscar are likely to be the same person.
Dunno how we could afford both. Plus another 2 .
Either late draft picks or a Free Agent who costs us nothing but limited cap space would be my guess.
The best way is to keep yourself competitive now without burning your future as all Lions followers would know first hand.

If you're competitive you can still win one or fluke one.

Going all out to win a flag in the present always backfires.

And so does getting rid of good players and good coaches.
 

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