How do we take the next step to a premiership?

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CarterS

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Whats our salary cap position? Pretty tight obviously? We should have gone after O'Meara or Mitchell. We are a step below Melbourne/WB in the midfield IMO.
 

Dalions

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Another few questions i've got actually for me I still believe Noah Answerth is in our best 22 as a back pocket so I was wondering if people still feel the same way?

And will the coaching staff pick up where they left off last season and plan to have Rayner playing more midfield minutes as I think the next evolution of the team comes with him having to make a pretty significant leap?
Been a long time between drinks for Answerth.
He has the potential to be back in the Seniors but he may spend a bit of time in the VFL to get back up to the speed of the game.
 

martinson

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Answerth's had a cruel run with injuries for many years.

He showed promise when he was able to play. Perhaps people are a little carried away with his overall ability but there might be a spot there if he's good enough. You've also got Madden, Ah Chee and Prior who can play similar roles.
 

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BuntonRules

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Answerth's had a cruel run with injuries for many years.

He showed promise when he was able to play. Perhaps people are a little carried away with his overall ability but there might be a spot there if he's good enough. You've also got Madden, Ah Chee and Prior who can play similar roles.
Probably a bigger fan of Madden, to he honest.
 

Mighty Lions

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Nah, wing should go to Sharp. I'd even suggest pushing Madden in there if he has the tank to do it.

Berry should be our bigger body mid in the middle. We need him there to control the likes of Libba, Oliver etc.
Agree 100%...that is what J.Berry is being groomed for. That said, he has underachieved somewhat with:
a) The amount of injuries he's had recently that hasnt allowed him to develop his game.
b) his decision making when he has the ball in hand needs dramatic improvement.

He has a good tank and can move up & down the ground which will help us defensively. He is also hard at the ball which is also what we need right now. I see J.Berry used as the club thought CEY was recruited for (hard at it, in & under midfielder) however we all know the CEY list addition hasn't worked. If Jarrod can step up next year and get a good run with injury, i see him having some positive influence in us winning a flag.
 

Mighty Lions

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Winners are grinners as the saying goes.

The sporting world is full of coulda/shouldabeens every year.

Reality is that once you get to a certain competitive level in professional sport a little luck goes a long way.

Having said that no one would've beaten Melbourne this year. They were brilliantly prepared and coached , not too many missing through injury , and too talented . Had they had injuries they could've covered when you look at those who didn't get a game . Of course you get two of Gawn, Oliver or Petracca go down for the year and it's a much harder battle for them.

McStay out and Payne down early in the Dogs game really cost us . But we still had our chances to win it and didn't do it.
Disagree, I believe our full strength team were a real chance should we have met them in the Grand Final. Their 3 key movers (like you say above) are critical to Melbourne. Our full strength forward line would have dominated their defense and our backline would have also covered their forwards pretty easily. If Gawn, Oliver & Petracca have an "off day" or are injured, Melbourne are definitely vulnerable.
We are in a very good spot for the next few years to win a flag no doubt regardless of who we play imo.
 

martinson

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'Our full strength forward line would have dominated their defense and our backline would have also covered their forwards pretty easily. If Gawn, Oliver & Petracca have an "off day" or are injured, Melbourne are definitely vulnerable.'

My point was not this year. You make it sound like we would've blitzed them. They blitzed us. No one got close in the finals.

Let's see if they can reproduce it.
 

Mighty Lions

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'Our full strength forward line would have dominated their defense and our backline would have also covered their forwards pretty easily. If Gawn, Oliver & Petracca have an "off day" or are injured, Melbourne are definitely vulnerable.'

My point was not this year. You make it sound like we would've blitzed them. They blitzed us. No one got close in the finals.

Let's see if they can reproduce it.
It was said in the context of your post and the discussion being had. "Having said that no one would've beaten Melbourne this year." Maybe I mis-understood those words but I believe we were more than capable of beating Melbourne and any other side this season.
 

martinson

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It was said in the context of your post and the discussion being had. "Having said that no one would've beaten Melbourne this year." Maybe I mis-understood those words but I believe we were more than capable of beating Melbourne and any other side this season.
Not Melbourne imo ,full strength or otherwise this season.

Of course we all know what can happen on any given day. Anybody can beat anybody if the stars align. All the top sides are capable of beating each other any year. But not Melbourne this year the way they played ,especially in finals. It was about as conclusive as it could get.
 

Nunez

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Agree 100%...that is what J.Berry is being groomed for. That said, he has underachieved somewhat with:
a) The amount of injuries he's had recently that hasnt allowed him to develop his game.
b) his decision making when he has the ball in hand needs dramatic improvement.

He has a good tank and can move up & down the ground which will help us defensively. He is also hard at the ball which is also what we need right now. I see J.Berry used as the club thought CEY was recruited for (hard at it, in & under midfielder) however we all know the CEY list addition hasn't worked. If Jarrod can step up next year and get a good run with injury, i see him having some positive influence in us winning a flag.
Completely agree. If Berry can have a full pre season and get some consistent game time he could have a breakout year as an inside mid.
 

Mighty Lions

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Not Melbourne imo ,full strength or otherwise this season.

Of course we all know what can happen on any given day. Anybody can beat anybody if the stars align. All the top sides are capable of beating each other any year. But not Melbourne this year the way they played ,especially in finals. It was about as conclusive as it could get.
Strongly disagree with you but thats ok for us to have a difference of opinion. They lost 4 games & drew once. 3 of those were sides were never going to make the top 8 and each game either 1 or 2 of the fab 3 were well held. I've played in 2 Grand Finals where the team we played were undefeated all year and we got them in the one that mattered. All Melbourne needed was for Gawn to pull a hammy in the warm up or Petracca to get concussed in the first few minutes of the game and it could have easily swung into the Bulldogs favor. I'm happy for my mates who support Melbourne because they were the best team in the competition in season 2021 but often the best team isn't the one holding the cup at the end of the season. That's what happens in footy more often than you think. Even season 2021.
 

twhowler

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Agree 100%...that is what J.Berry is being groomed for. That said, he has underachieved somewhat with:
a) The amount of injuries he's had recently that hasnt allowed him to develop his game.
b) his decision making when he has the ball in hand needs dramatic improvement.

He has a good tank and can move up & down the ground which will help us defensively. He is also hard at the ball which is also what we need right now. I see J.Berry used as the club thought CEY was recruited for (hard at it, in & under midfielder) however we all know the CEY list addition hasn't worked. If Jarrod can step up next year and get a good run with injury, i see him having some positive influence in us winning a flag.
Berry is an interesting one.

He will never be Petracca. He won't be an out and out star.

But I think he could be very good, and a key part of our midfield.

He has already played some excellent games, as recently as last year. Round 13 against the saints and 15 against magpies, both were 3 brownlow vote games. Against the saints in particular he was immense at the end.

Strengths: Genuine big-bodied mid (he is incredibly strong), great two-way runner. Long kick (albeit not brilliant possession). if you think of the first two traits this is exactly what we were missing this year. He also has a knack for kicking multiple goals every now and then.

Weaknesses: kicking a bit iffy, especially goalkicking from dead in front but this part more mental. Not explosive speed but i would not call him slow.

A fit Berry and Neale would be a massive boost to our midfield next year. It's easy to forget out good Neale was in 2020. Not explosive speed but such a fast decision-maker / executor. So clever at setting up space for another player with a weighted handball.
 

Section 5

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Agree 100%...that is what J.Berry is being groomed for. That said, he has underachieved somewhat with:
a) The amount of injuries he's had recently that hasnt allowed him to develop his game.
b) his decision making when he has the ball in hand needs dramatic improvement.

He has a good tank and can move up & down the ground which will help us defensively. He is also hard at the ball which is also what we need right now. I see J.Berry used as the club thought CEY was recruited for (hard at it, in & under midfielder) however we all know the CEY list addition hasn't worked. If Jarrod can step up next year and get a good run with injury, i see him having some positive influence in us winning a flag.
It would be great if Jarrod had an injury free preparation and filled that big bodied mid role we believe we need
I agree with (a) & (b)
I would add (c) when in possession he takes too long to dispose of the footy (part of b) but often gets caught with the footy.

He gets caught in part because he is predictable & not fast. Runs mostly in straight lines and regularly does not appear to be aware of opposition players in his area
Bont and Pendlies are slow but they are always moving evasively no matter how small the movement. Ball always moving in their hands too which gives the impression they are about to offload but regularly don't

All of us on BF talk about Jarod's big tank however his TOG has not increased since his early days
Going backwards from 2021:- 61.9%, 77.5%, 77.5%, 78.0%, 74.3%
Last years mids excluding senior players:- McCluggage 82.6%, Bailey 81.4%,Dev Robertson 70.1% and Prior 66.6%

In line with this thread i agree that a fit and improved Jarrod could be our next step to a premiership.
But will it be in the midfield?
 

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martinson

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It would be great if Jarrod had an injury free preparation and filled that big bodied mid role we believe we need
I agree with (a) & (b)
I would add (c) when in possession he takes too long to dispose of the footy (part of b) but often gets caught with the footy.

He gets caught in part because he is predictable & not fast. Runs mostly in straight lines and regularly does not appear to be aware of opposition players in his area
Bont and Pendlies are slow but they are always moving evasively no matter how small the movement. Ball always moving in their hands too which gives the impression they are about to offload but regularly don't

All of us on BF talk about Jarod's big tank however his TOG has not increased since his early days
Going backwards from 2021:- 61.9%, 77.5%, 77.5%, 78.0%, 74.3%
Last years mids excluding senior players:- McCluggage 82.6%, Bailey 81.4%,Dev Robertson 70.1% and Prior 66.6%

In line with this thread i agree that a fit and improved Jarrod could be our next step to a premiership.
But will it be in the midfield?
He only seemed to start getting caught after the injuries piled up and somehow lost his awareness.

Which took him from being our next big thing to where are we going to play him.

Sometimes it takes quite a while to fully recover from what weren't minor injuries , shoulder ,hamstring then groin iirc.

Next year will tell us a lot about his LT prospects.
 

Jivlain

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He only seemed to start getting caught after the injuries piled up and somehow lost his awareness.

Which took him from being our next big thing to where are we going to play him.

Sometimes it takes quite a while to fully recover from what weren't minor injuries , shoulder ,hamstring then groin iirc.

Next year will tell us a lot about his LT prospects.
Plus all that's sitting on top of and possibly related to that bout of glandular fever, which can really knock you about.

Now he's had some time, if he can get a good interrupted preseason in he could be a major improver.
 

Section 5

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Plus all that's sitting on top of and possibly related to that bout of glandular fever, which can really knock you about.

Now he's had some time, if he can get a good interrupted preseason in he could be a major improver.
Jarred had glandular fever in Febuary 2019 so that is 3 seasons ago
He actually played 20 games that season which was close to if not his best year
I would hope he has fully recovered by now
 

MacMum

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Took my daughter 2yrs to get over glandular fever.......so add in a crook shoulder and god knows what else and yes, Jarrod has had an injury plagued few years. As a result we only saw snippets of what he is capable of.
 

Mighty Lions

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Took my daughter 2yrs to get over glandular fever.......so add in a crook shoulder and god knows what else and yes, Jarrod has had an injury plagued few years. As a result we only saw snippets of what he is capable of.
All AFL players play with injuries some time in their careers. (more often than not) That said, if they are declared fit to play, injuries nor lack of game time isn't a plausible excuse for anyone including J.Berry.
 

Nunez

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All AFL players play with injuries some time in their careers. (more often than not) That said, if they are declared fit to play, injuries nor lack of game time isn't a plausible excuse for anyone including J.Berry.
I think playing through injuries is more mentally taxing than physically. I'm no elite athlete, but I definitely found that part of sport was much harder than playing through the physical pain of an injury. Certainly no excuses from a physical standpoint, but can certainly understand why some players may struggle with four quarter efforts if they're nursing an injury through games (particularly one they're not used to dealing with).
 

bungalow_bill

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Injuries are one thing Glandular fever is another. 10% or more experience prolonged fatigue so I think it's a fair excuse for Jarrod's lack of progress/regress over the last year or so
 

Mighty Lions

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Injuries are one thing Glandular fever is another. 10% or more experience prolonged fatigue so I think it's a fair excuse for Jarrod's lack of progress/regress over the last year or so
If Jarrod is one of the 10% experiencing prolonged fatigue, there would have been zero chance of him training let alone playing. Our medico's would be all over it as would most standard GP's. In my opinion, basic lack of game time due to injury is the primary reason his career has somewhat stalled.Fingers crossed he gets a good go at it now.
 

Nunez

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If Jarrod is one of the 10% experiencing prolonged fatigue, there would have been zero chance of him training let alone playing. Our medico's would be all over it as would most standard GP's. In my opinion, basic lack of game time due to injury is the primary reason his career has somewhat stalled.Fingers crossed he gets a good go at it now.
His game against the Dogs was going great and thought he was being quite influential before he got concussed. Just needs a full pre season and a consistent run of games and I think we'll see Berry shine.
 

Dalions

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His game against the Dogs was going great and thought he was being quite influential before he got concussed. Just needs a full pre season and a consistent run of games and I think we'll see Berry shine.
Whenever we have seen him get some consistency, is when we start to see his potential ceiling.
He has always taken a bit of time to get going when first coming back but once he is up and running he gets better and better but up until now, he will then get injured again.
And so the cycle begins again.
 

Section 5

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Could we see a change of role for Jarrod Berry this year
I still think the club will trial a 3rd tall forward in the preseason as i have mentioned in various posts
No reason why Jarrod (or someone else) can't fill this role until Hippy returns after the bye.
However he would have to play that role so no midfield time. Basically taking McStay's usual 3rd tall role
Jarrod at his best is not a huge accumulator of the footy
His best year disposal wise was 2019 having a disposal average of 19.6. (2021: 12.6 disposals, 2020: 15.9 disposals)
Defensively he would hopefully help restrict that opposition move out of our forward half

McStay:- 195 cm & 97 kg
J Berry.:- 193 cm & 89 kg
 

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