Adams became our interceptor and was brilliant at it until injured. I thought he wasn’t quite willing to go for his marks in the 2 finals - perhaps worried about getting outmarked. Hope he was told after go for your marks next time - that’s your weapon.
How do we take the next step to a premiership?
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We didn't have a fit Gardiner, Adams and Andrews all year. But between the three of them we have a great blend of intercept marking, locking down and killing the ball. I think we have a solid foundation of talls (and obviously running is where there is room for growth).
You just get the feeling that Gardiner and Adams are always going to a bit injury ridden.
You just get the feeling that Gardiner and Adams are always going to a bit injury ridden.
Agreed, which is why we should either keep Ballenden or draft a tall defender.
- Aug 10, 2005
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We've got Payne and Lester
Darcy has been very durable until his shoulder this year. Missing average 2 games a year with injury. Only he and the club really know where his shoulder is at; he looked very limited but so did Josh Dunkley until about 5 weeks back with the same injury. With a whole pre-season let's hope he is back to full fitness.
But you do have Payne and Adams with a regular injury history. I don't see Ballenden as making it as he seems to lack any aggression. Hope I am wrong. But I wouldn't hate keeping him for one more year as I can't see Joyce making it and it seems down to those 2 for a delisting?
Fagan mentioned getting more speed into our backline which I am all for. I would assume that means 3 talls, Andrews / Adams / Gardner first choice. Rich as main kicker. Then 3 of Coleman, Answerth, Prior, Madden, Ah Chee.
The one interesting caveat might be if we really want to develop Payne, who does show a lot of potential. Could Gardner become a small / medium defender? On their most threatening non-tall? He has decent pace and loves playing a lockdown game. And the big bonus could be we become an intercept marking side.
Putting the theoretical into the practical, perhaps we could line up this way against Melbourne:
Tom McDonald - Jack Payne
Ben Brown - Harris Andrews
Luke Jackson - Marcus Adams (plays his intercept game, much better reader of the play than Jackson)
Bailey Fritsch - Darcy Gardner
Kysaiah Pickett - Noah Answerth
Charlie Spargo - Kidean Coleman
Alex Neal-Bullen - Daniel Rich (on least-threatening defender)
Everybody talks about Melbourne's incredible defence with its intercept marking. Surely we can manage something similar with our bevvy of defenders? Marcus Adams showed great form taking intercept marks this year. Harris has the ability when right, and also those 30m punches. Gardner was getting to pretty good form when he did his shoulder and also backs himself to take a mark when in the right position. And Payne showed it when he played Sydney and Geelong last year, albeit on smaller players.
It's just a question of whether that defence is not too top heavy, and has enough pace. Payne and Adams actually have quite a good top speed. Darcy is pretty nimble. Coleman has decent pace, Madden or Answerth very fast.
I'm aware. Payne and Lester are not sufficient, one more is needed.
We can always delist both and draft another player. Personally I'd prefer to give Joyce another shot, because in my mind he's shown more at VFL level.
I take it you want to move Starce to midfield?
Gardiner has had at least 3 shoulder reconstructions from memory now. The last two off seasons he has gone in for surgery, and then mid season this year.
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Was it his shoulder or his knee that had him off the pace this year?
Maybe a combo of both?
Shoulder.
Brutal blow: Important Lion to miss three months
Darcy Gardiner might not play again this season
www.afl.com.au
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Oh yeah, he definitely had shoulder surgery this year.
I just though his knee seemed to be hindering him just as much when he come back.
Yep. Big on this.
If he doesn’t go into midfield then darcy stays as a tall
pulpdriver
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Obviously every coaching group in the country is now going to work on a plan to counter the Dees but we've struggled with players like Tracc and Piggy for the last three years. I really want Starce and Berry to be rotating heavily through the midfield. If ready, Rayner but understand we might need to be a patient.
For us it’s not just being able to counteract them, but we’re not able to run from defence like the Dees or Dogs, or win the ball and burst from stoppage similarly.
We’re very one dimensional due to our current midfield personal, and it’s going to take half a decade to rejig our midfield.
pulpdriver
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Nonsense. Anyone watching the Dees run defensively in this game and comparing it to us would consider us lacking but it's an entire team effort. We just happen to have two very good ball winning mids who are poor the other way.
imo We're the clear third best team in the competition we even made the premiers looks second rate for a half before they got on top of us in the midfield and their running made it look like they had 20 players on the field.
In my opinion we need a big bodied mid, a lot more speed on the outside and particularly in defence along with a concerted effort to run the other way from our entire team. I don't think we need five years for that. We've probably got it on our list now.
Is it? Different players around Neale and Lyons could do a lot.
We have Rayner and Starc to come in as big bodies in the midfield and Berry surely comes back for next season finally. We can add more pace now Birch is gone and that is huge. A fit Harris, Gardner and Adam’s will also make a huge difference. If Hippy can defy logic and come back firing, we already have almost everything we need.
Britzoon I remember you saying Melbourne's 'weakness' was its forward line. Plenty here put up stats to show we had the best forward line in the League. Melbourne's forward line only looks average on paper and I think it is but if you get M/F dominance like they did it doesn't matter who you've got down there . Fritsch was able to kick 6 , a very unlikely outcome in a GF.
We can't pull a Petracca or an Oliver out of a hat . They also had the players and skill from their backline and especially on the wings and in the M/F to run ,overlap ,and accelerate out of congestion. Making it easy for their forwards.
This is what wins games now. The finals this year showed up teams who were older and didn't have the cattle to generate enough run. We've got the backbone of a strong side , we just need to bring in and develop those we have to give us that extra run and bite.
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I don’t think our midfield is that far off Melbourne’s but we didn’t have the balance right towards the end of the season when Zorko could barely move. Just added to the slowness of Lyons and Neale.
Neale is about equal to Oliver. Doesn’t have the speed but his hands are much better. Lyons also goes too defensive but when he’s not just trailing his opponent around he can get in and under and win the footy as well. The problem is where do we play McLuggage.
Clugs biggest asset is finding a target inside 50 (a point of difference between us and Melbourne) but he also is invaluable in traffic (not sure this has 100% stood up under final pressure though). Clug could probably be our Petracca (not as strong, better ball use). Numpties will say we’re still not as big as them but we have other advantages the issue is they’re harder to use under finals pressure.
Berry and Robbo as defensive wingers are probably our best options. The glaring issue being ball use.
Then we have Bailey providing some speed. Hopefully Rayner and Zorko spending some time on the ball as well.
Neale is about equal to Oliver. Doesn’t have the speed but his hands are much better. Lyons also goes too defensive but when he’s not just trailing his opponent around he can get in and under and win the footy as well. The problem is where do we play McLuggage.
Clugs biggest asset is finding a target inside 50 (a point of difference between us and Melbourne) but he also is invaluable in traffic (not sure this has 100% stood up under final pressure though). Clug could probably be our Petracca (not as strong, better ball use). Numpties will say we’re still not as big as them but we have other advantages the issue is they’re harder to use under finals pressure.
Berry and Robbo as defensive wingers are probably our best options. The glaring issue being ball use.
Then we have Bailey providing some speed. Hopefully Rayner and Zorko spending some time on the ball as well.
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Instead of having a plan to beat most teams, develop a team and plan to beat the best and the other wins will follow. Our defence was too slow, it was obvious in our first game against the Swans, we never changed and lost our last two games for the same reason.
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We didn’t lose to Melbourne because of speed in our defence. Actually it was their lack of speed in defence which was exposed by us
Petracca's hands look elite to me. He'll only be 26 next year. I agree with your comments on Clug . He's elite in traffic and our best option is to try to build his strength to stand up over 4 quarters in big games.
Let's not forget we lost to the Bulldogs by only 1pt and a couple of dodgy umpiring decisions......and that was with our star players out or carrying injuries.
That is how close we were. We really don't need to do much and imo can at least get to a GF if the stars align, which they didn't this year..
At our best, we will be up there with the best of the others.
That is how close we were. We really don't need to do much and imo can at least get to a GF if the stars align, which they didn't this year..
At our best, we will be up there with the best of the others.
