How do you fix rugby in Australia?

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robbieando

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No.
I think you'll find that I am right.
You didn't bother to check to the figures yourself, so don't make such a foolish claim and then try and justify them with a "I think" response. Even you have proof and can provide the numbers or your making s**t up.

but if you look at numbers attending games and people watching is at an all time low.
https://afltables.com/rl/crowds/summary.html

This years average crowd for the NRL is on target to beat the average crowd for every year prior to 2004 and be an improvement on last year. You have nothing to base you comment on.
 

RedV3x

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The NRL may look like it's finally got it's act together but if you look at numbers attending games and people watching is at an all time low.
You're as bad as one another.
Taking 14 years to 'rebound' isn't flash. The population has increased and the NRL world is stable.
Newspapers have been very harsh to spotlight low crowds and empty stadiums.
Instead of arguing the point it might be best to suggest reasons like scheduling, fixturing, SOO and stadiums etc.
The AFL have only recently regained lost averages due to expansion teams and playing at low capacity venues.
 

fumbler

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You're as bad as one another.
Taking 14 years to 'rebound' isn't flash. The population has increased and the NRL world is stable.
Newspapers have been very harsh to spotlight low crowds and empty stadiums.
Instead of arguing the point it might be best to suggest reasons like scheduling, fixturing, SOO and stadiums etc.
The AFL have only recently regained lost averages due to expansion teams and playing at low capacity venues.
I haven't had a good laugh in ages, thankyou.
 

Scotland

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Why do you say that?
Because we are beholden to whatever SANZAAR wants to do.

Not having a team in Perth is a farce. Introducing a team in Perth, developing a market and grassroots structure over more than a decade etc. then s**tting on it is an even bigger farce.b

Our teams are also not going to get any better when they qualify for SR finals by virtue of simply being the best team from Australia even if they are barely top 10 of 15 sides.
 

mikey127

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Because we are beholden to whatever SANZAAR wants to do.

Not having a team in Perth is a farce. Introducing a team in Perth, developing a market and grassroots structure over more than a decade etc. then s**tting on it is an even bigger farce.b

Our teams are also not going to get any better when they qualify for SR finals by virtue of simply being the best team from Australia even if they are barely top 10 of 15 sides.
You make some fair points. My concern is tho surely you only improve by playing quality opposition. If we just had a national comp and didn't play against NZ and SA teams who do we improve?
 

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chibimatty

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I think we're a long way off improving for the time being anyway :(; too many of the old traditional rugby union state schools have given up the game, not necessarily to RL, but actually to AFL and soccer. It's going to be a long, difficult journey, but the SANZAAR revenue is still needed for now (hard for me to admit as a WA guy)

What would be good, would be if RA can work with Andrew Forrest's GRR competition and try to attract a few more rugby-loving billionaires to the game and give us another non-test revenue stream to alleviate the costs of player contracts. An Australian competition for after the end of the Super Rugby season, (with some Asian/Pacific Island sides, new franchises, traditional clubs, traditional regional XVs, whatever it takes) to generate broadcast and ad revenue to help pay the players, keep more of them in the game and stop them going to RL for a pay packet; so that funds can then be re-allocated to getting those schools back, and combating the expansionism of the other codes. It's working well in WA, our development (Future Force Foundation) is privately funded, in the same way that the AFL has private sponsors for AusKick.

The other option I would consider, would be to bite the bullet and work with the Japanese and European clubs with a reciprocal arrangement in the same way cricket and RL used to have; I.E. players had limited secondary contracts at overseas clubs in the off-season, but they came back for their national team and State team in cricket, or their NSWRL/BRL/ARL rugby league club side at start of our season. (Fatty Vautin played for St Helens during his career at Manly-Warringah, for example.) Whether the Europeans agree to it of course, is another thing altogether; but the Japanese have already been obliging with this scenario, so maybe we could go there?

:think::think::think:
 
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Scotland

TheBrownDog
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You make some fair points. My concern is tho surely you only improve by playing quality opposition. If we just had a national comp and didn't play against NZ and SA teams who do we improve?
SR isn't the cause of our problems, but the current system doesn't work. In the 2017 season (the last of 18 teams) the best Australian side finished with 6 wins and 34 points. The worst NZ side finished with 7 wins and 37. So 9th becomes 2nd in conference and 10th is still 10th. Even this year the Waratahs got to host the Highlanders who won more games during the season.

If going from 18 back down to 15 meant Aus, NZ and RSA all lost one team NZ would have had no bar of it. RA is weak and compromised Australian rugby by agreeing to punt a team then punting the Force for political reasons. You don't 'fix' rugby by cutting off your 3rd biggest rugby market from the elite level. Our SR teams were slightly better in 2018 with the players spread across 4 teams instead of 5 but the Wallabies still suck.

The strongest comp in the Southern Hemisphere will be whatever NZ participate in. They could play among themselves for 4 years and then still win the World Cup. South Africa have their foot in the door in Europe, they'll chase the money there. Andrew Forrest is a used car salesman but if he can help generate some interest in rugby again and lure players back from playing in Europe that can only be a good thing.
 

Seedsfan

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It has to die to be reborn. Junior rugby in Melbourne is growing yet for what ever reason that doesn’t translate into senior numbers. Crowds are down and nobody really cares about the Rebels or wallabies. The model that they have rolled out Fountain Gate secondary is a step in the right direction.

I think we need to exit super rugby. South Africa will exit for Europe and that will leave us in a venerable position. Hopefully with the game falling apart RA and Twiggy work together to set up a sustainable platform for the game in Australia
 

chibimatty

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And maybe cut the Oedipal umbilical cord from New Zealand and commit to positive, forthright actions for the good of Aussie rugby; without the need for worrying about another country, and the doubt and aspersions they cast over our actions.
 

Seedsfan

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And maybe cut the Oedipal umbilical cord from New Zealand and commit to positive, forthright actions for the good of Aussie rugby; without the need for worrying about another country, and the doubt and aspersions they cast over our actions.
Don’t see why we can’t work together the way Ireland Scotland and Wales do.
 

chibimatty

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Don’t see why we can’t work together the way Ireland Scotland and Wales do.
Well, it's a tough one. We could work together, but I'm worried that it will go pear-shaped again. One of the problems New Zealand has, as you know, is a lack of money-generation. So they're always going to try to piggy-back us, even if South Africa leaves. It's similar to the apartheid era, when South Africa, as their long-standing rival were out of the game, New Zealand had to "help" Australia in order for themselves to be able to have regular test match income; that Australia became the best in the world from the late 70s to early 2000s ended putting New Zealand's nose out of joint to the point where they had to hinder the game here, rather than help. Vetoing a fourth Super 12 team; vetoing a national Aus-Pac-Asia domestic comp; dilly-dallying around and demanding more from their RWC sub-hosting status, which almost cost both countries the whole tournament. So I'd like to see Australia stand on it's own two feet without them, and make partners of other countries first. Other countries, whose national identity is not based around beating Australia at the only game they can consistently do so at; because then we can deal with a rugby fraternity who is in it for the good of game as a whole; not someone who is so fragile, that beating Australia is more important than everybody being successful.

Then, we'll be able to deal with them on a more equal footing, which is exactly how it was in the 80s and 90s. But bloody hell, we've got a longways to go before we get back to that level.
 

Seedsfan

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Well, it's a tough one. We could work together, but I'm worried that it will go pear-shaped again. One of the problems New Zealand has, as you know, is a lack of money-generation. So they're always going to try to piggy-back us, even if South Africa leaves. It's similar to the apartheid era, when South Africa, as their long-standing rival were out of the game, New Zealand had to "help" Australia in order for themselves to be able to have regular test match income; that Australia became the best in the world from the late 70s to early 2000s ended putting New Zealand's nose out of joint to the point where they had to hinder the game here, rather than help. Vetoing a fourth Super 12 team; vetoing a national Aus-Pac-Asia domestic comp; dilly-dallying around and demanding more from their RWC sub-hosting status, which almost cost both countries the whole tournament. So I'd like to see Australia stand on it's own two feet without them, and make partners of other countries first. Other countries, whose national identity is not based around beating Australia at the only game they can consistently do so at; because then we can deal with a rugby fraternity who is in it for the good of game as a whole; not someone who is so fragile, that beating Australia is more important than everybody being successful.

Then, we'll be able to deal with them on a more equal footing, which is exactly how it was in the 80s and 90s. But bloody hell, we've got a longways to go before we get back to that level.
Wow, you have a lot of knowledge on this. Being a kid growing up in Melbourne I only got into rugby just before the World Cup in 03 and as I was fairly young then I didn’t understand the politics at board level
 

chibimatty

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Sh!t sorry man, I don't mean be a blowhard. But yeah, it's fascinating stuff.

Unfortunately, being from WA, I get heckled from pillar-to-post by a lot of the Kiwis here when I say stuff like that, who quite frankly built a lot of the game in WA. The truth of the matter is, Australia hasn't been a saint either, but we have been beholden to the interests of others for so long, it lead to the cutting of a growing expansion area of the game (WA) and numerous other problems.

But Rugby Australia has to shoulder a lot the responsibility for the problems it has sown. We went from a sport which was selling out Subiaco Oval and the Olympic Stadium in Sydney; could poach any player we wanted from the NRL (as a matter of fact, the Queensland State-of-Origin back three of Wendell Sailor, Mat Rogers and Lote Tuqiri, plus Andrew Walker from the Roosters and St George top try scorer Nathan Blacklock) and was the first country to win the world cup twice; to a game which is struggling to produce a single world class player and can't sell out a test match. And the player numbers at school level are in the toilet. That lies at the feet of Rugby Australia.
 

Seedsfan

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Sh!t sorry man, I don't mean be a blowhard. But yeah, it's fascinating stuff.

Unfortunately, being from WA, I get heckled from pillar-to-post by a lot of the Kiwis here when I say stuff like that, who quite frankly built a lot of the game in WA. The truth of the matter is, Australia hasn't been a saint either, but we have been beholden to the interests of others for so long, it lead to the cutting of a growing expansion area of the game (WA) and numerous other problems.

But Rugby Australia has to shoulder a lot the responsibility for the problems it has sown. We went from a sport which was selling out Subiaco Oval and the Olympic Stadium in Sydney; could poach any player we wanted from the NRL (as a matter of fact, the Queensland State-of-Origin back three of Wendell Sailor, Mat Rogers and Lote Tuqiri, plus Andrew Walker from the Roosters and St George top try scorer Nathan Blacklock) and was the first country to win the world cup twice; to a game which is struggling to produce a single world class player and can't sell out a test match. And the player numbers at school level are in the toilet. That lies at the feet of Rugby Australia.
I like the post and the knowledge. I do have a feeling that rugby is about to collapse and when the game is rebuilt stakeholders who have been shut out of the game will be able to take ownership of the game
 

Seedsfan

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Talk of South Africa quitting is overstated. Could be good for them but the European countries wouldn't get much out of it.
Increase of money and exposure for the pro 14 to keep up with the money in the premiership and French Top 14. While unlikely if South Africa leaves for Europe their national team may also follow and take Italy’s place in the 6 nations
 

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