How do you rate a champion player?

[fugitive]

I have often pondered over this how do rate a true champion footy player? We all know there are several categories of players stars, super-stars & champions.

I've always wondered if we get too carried away labelling certain good players as stars, super stars or even champions. I mean what should be the genuine criteria for labelling a player a true champion?

Let's say the case of Kouta who in my opinion has had one may be two great years Is he a true champion as compared to Carey, Hird or Voss who we regard as "champions".

Any thoughts??

 

[windyhill]

Longevity.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

A Champion: One who excels in their chosen field, performs at a level way above those around him, and performs with great consistency over a considerable period of time.
Very few players attain this standard.

 

[macca23]

Originally posted by Adelaide Hawk
A Champion: One who excels in their chosen field, performs at a level way above those around him, and performs with great consistency over a considerable period of time.
Very few players attain this standard.

Excellent summary. Current players that might qualify are Carey, Hird and Voss, in that order.

Kouta is very good but doesn't make it as a champion.

 

[Smokin]

To me, I rate the upper level as great players or greats, then above that are the "champions". A champion is the most elite level a player can acheive.

A great player plays at an extremely high level, has longevity and consistancy.

But, I consider a champion to have something more than this.

I rate a champion as someone who can step up/produce when under extreme pressure (as well as being a great), ie taking a game by the scruff of the neck, or winning a game off his own boot in big games etc.

Guys like Carey, Kernahan, Dermie, Ablett etc seemed to have this ability.

They could also be having a bad game, then bang, just turn the game on its head. Not just once, but over time.

A champion also steps up in the big games, finals and grannies (if he plays in them).

It's one of the reasons Ive always rated Darren Jarman extremely highly, in the top few of the last decade.

He may not have the consistancy of say a Voss or Buckley, but heck he knew when and how to turn it on!

Of current players, Carey definitly, and maybe Voss and Hird also fit.

IMO a "champion" needs to be definied so that there are not many. They are the elite, few and far between.

I think the word "champion' gets thrown around too easily these days.

Thats what I consider a champion anyway.

 

[tashibatts]

To me, a champion has some of the following qualities:

Excel at what they do
Match there excelled performance with a good personality
Longveity
Inspire
Work Hard
Lead by good example.


For me: that is a basic profile of Anthony Stevens.


Go Roos

 

[al berton]

longevity, off feild performance as well as on, reports.

 

[Zombie]

James Hird is no champion, he is not even a great player, good at best.

 

[vergs]

For me, a good footballer always has composure. When they get the ball, they seem to have an eternity to get rid of it, eg. Voss, Hird, Harvey, S.Black.

 

[SydneyBomber]

Originally posted by Zombie
James Hird is no champion, he is not even a great player, good at best.

Yep - only duds get:
a Brownlow
a Norm Smith (as captain)
TWO Premiership medals

How many of these does anyone from port have?
(Except the ones they won at essendon lol!)

 

[windyhill]

Bro, zombles has major Essendon issues, what with port trying to be Mini-Essendon and everything you just have to laugh at the bloke.

 

[SydneyBomber]

Originally posted by windyhill
Bro, zombles has major Essendon issues, what with port trying to be Mini-Essendon and everything you just have to laugh at the bloke.

Yeah true, but it's just so much fun to remind the young fella that his team of 'champions' have achieved exactly jack shyte since joining from their little backwater league....

Apart from poaching players and trying as hard as they can to be like us....
Here's a hint for you, it takes sustained success.

hehehe

 

[noddy]

I just line them up with Barry Robran & Russell Ebert, if they come close then i might label them as champions,

 

[Mocca]

Originally posted by tashibatts
Anthony Stevens

Good, possibly great player.

Champion? No.

Smokin's definition is very close to what I would label a champion.

 

[Portia]

According to Smokin's definition, Stuart Dew is closer to being a champion than Warren Tredrea.

 

[Mocca]

Stuart Dew does not play at an extremely high level, nor does he exhibit consistency.

Not sure where you got that from Porthos.

 

[Portia]

Originally posted by Smokin
A great player plays at an extremely high level, has longevity and consistancy.

But, I consider a champion to have something more than this.

I rate a champion as someone who can step up/produce when under extreme pressure (as well as being a great), ie taking a game by the scruff of the neck, or winning a game off his own boot in big games etc.

A champion also steps up in the big games, finals and grannies (if he plays in them).

It's one of the reasons Ive always rated Darren Jarman extremely highly, in the top few of the last decade.

He may not have the consistancy of say a Voss or Buckley, but heck he knew when and how to turn it on!

My inference from this was the Jarman was a champion, despite his lack of consistency. Like Jarman, Dew is a big game specialist. Tredrea is in theory less than a champion because all he displays is `playing at an extremely high level, with longevity and consistency'.

This is how I reached my conclusion from those parameters.

 

[Mocca]

Jarman's alleged lack of consistency is a bit of a myth, but I take your point.

 

[hotpie]

Originally posted by windyhill
Longevity.

Crap.

Good footballers who are not neccesarily out and out champions can sometimes last a very long time.

Tony Shaw, Tony Liberatore, Nigel Smart, Stewert Loewe, and John Blakey are good examples. So are Russell Greene, Garry Foulds and Sammy Newman.

 

[Z_K]

Originally posted by Mocca
Good, possibly great player.

Champion? No.

I think you are way off there Mocca.

Do you think Crawford is a champion? I would take Stevens any day of the week and twice on Sundays. It is his footballing ability (one of the most consistent and statistically dominating onballers since about '94) the way he goes about his footy and what he means to the football club make him a champion. Pretty good captain also.

The bloke has finished top 2 in 6 B+F's, and every year of those we were an excellent football side. Anybody doubting him should check out the SOO game in '95. Made them all (including that Jarman fella) look like gimps.

 

[Smokin]

Originally posted by Porthos
According to Smokin's definition, Stuart Dew is closer to being a champion than Warren Tredrea.

I dont rate Tredrea anywhere near a champion.

(at this stage of course)...if anything, he is a big game flop.

Originally posted by Porthos
My inference from this was the Jarman was a champion, despite his lack of consistency. Like Jarman, Dew is a big game specialist. Tredrea is in theory less than a champion because all he displays is `playing at an extremely high level, with longevity and consistency'.

This is how I reached my conclusion from those parameters.

Cmon - Jarman was a great player throughout his career, and stepped up often, and in big games. Cant compare Dew to Jarman IMO.

My whole argument is that a 'champion' has to have something special about him.

You have to be able to distinguish a champion from a great player - and the best way IMO to do that is to see how they react under pressure, when the stakes or high, or they have to lift a cog to acheive something.

Just like in boxing, it is not the fights that "all time greats" win easily which make them all time greats, its when they have pulled something out of the hat when the chips were down which elevates them into the top echelon.

Ali had Frazier and Foreman for example.
Sugar ray had Hearns and Hagler (they all had each other really).
Marciano did it often, the biggest probably being Walcott.

Someone who can lift when others cant - that is a champion IMO.

 

[BrisGirl]

A 'Champion player' to me is a player that it totally committed to the game and maintaining a consistantly high skill level over a long career span.

The football player has a 'luck of the draw' type of life in his career.

You could get any boy with great skills in the game, but there are so many other aspects to the game that comes into play and they all have to gel and come together to make the complete footballer.

Skill, ability to apply the skill under enormous pressure in a game, the body to withstand years of punishment, being able to withstand pain, having the desire to put the body through strenuous exersise over many years, dealing with adoration from numerous fans, keeping it all in prospective and being able to take huge criticism from not only your fans but from the media, who can be cruel sometimes.

Michael Voss and Wayne Carey come to mind.

Both these men are the complete footballer.

They both are capable of taking high marks, they both get under packs and get the hard ball, kicking goals from any angle, they are both capable of taking a game and winning it, and taking along their fellow teammates by just following by example.

Both these men have played the game at a high level for a long period of time and have carried the pressure of Captaincy for the most of their career.

In the end, Michael Voss has to go down as one of the best Champion players I have ever seen, as he is a testimony to our game and carries himself with pride and his conduct on the field, and off, is a source of great pride for myself and fellow Brisbane supporters.

 

[tashibatts]

Originally posted by Mocca
Good, possibly great player.

Champion? No.
.

Being a great player does not make you a champion, if you met a great player who thought highly of himself and thought he was superior to everyone else would you think he was a champion? I dont think so.


Anthony Stevens is a great player and a great guy- that and his courage and hard work makes him a champion in my eyes.


Go Roos

 

[Rohan_]

I compare them to Luke Gooden and Dwayne Griffin.

 

[Zombie]

Champion Players:

Buckley avg 26 possessions, 1 goal
Harvey avg 28 possessions, .5 goal
Carey avg 18 possessions, 3 goals, 8 marks


Good Players

Ratten 24 possessions, .5 goal
Ricciuto avg 22 possessions, 1 goal
M.Bickley avg 20 possessions
Hird avg 20 possessions, 1.5 goals
Kelly avg 20 possessions, 1 goal
N.Stevens 20 possessions, .5 goals
Francou 20 possessions, .5 goals


Just take a look at a few champion players and then a few good players, Hird fits nicely into the good players but is out of his depth amongst some of our current champions.

Premiership captain? Who gives a s**t? Just lucky, got into the right team at the right time, Bickley is a dual premiership captain doesn't make him a champion.

Brownlow, was obviously a good year for Hird, one of his few, it took him a further 4 years to accumulate as many possessions as he did in 96. Lets not forget that the majority of Brownlow winners are not champions, Woewodin comes to mind as not even being a good player.

Norm Smith? One match.

There is no doubt that Hird has been brilliant at times but even his best is not in the class of the best of champions such as Harvey and Buckley who could pull in 45+ possessions or Carey who could gather 30 and kick 11 goals. Hirds best was probably in 96 when he picked up 31 possessions and 4 goals, which is mild in comparison to a champion.

Hird accolades are tremendous no doubt, but most of them through no fault of his own, premierships are won by teams, not players. What Hird did on the field was good but not that of a champion.

Lets face it, no matter how skilled Hird is whenever you look at him playing he looks like a boy playing amongst men, a highly skilled boy but a boy none the less. His refusal to bulk up which ultimately lead to him missing the majority of his career through injury robbed him of whatever chance he had to become a champion player