How does general NRL/Rugby League 'culture' compare to AFL/Aussie rules?

[PerthBoy86]

Growing up in WA rugby generally wasn't even on our radar. Some might follow the Wallabies in big matches, and we had the very short lived Reds and Western Force, but the average person on the street would be pretty clueless about either league or union. Many wouldn't know the difference.

I've only seen one NRL game live (occasionally watch on tv), Storm vs Broncos at AAMI (it was a fizzer), and it felt very different. Cheerleaders, fireworks, a lot of music. More American.

I am curious, for those with experience in both, how does the general culture between the two differ? Like many in Perth, Melbourne etc are at least casual fans/keep track of their team or AFL, it seems a big part of the culture. For rugby league it as widespread in NSW and Queensland? I get the impression there are more Sydneysiders who have no interest in NRL than Melburnians who don't in AFL (still surprisingly high), would that be inaccurate? What about demographics? Age, gender etc? Is rugby played by as many kids there as rules is in Vic, SA, WA? What are rivalries like, are they as heated as AFL? I think NRL TV ratings aren't that much lower than AFL, but attendances far lower.

I know State of Origin is seen as as big as the grand final, wish we still had Aussie rules state of origin.

 

[PhatBoy]

Growing up in WA rugby generally wasn't even on our radar. Some might follow the Wallabies in big matches, and we had the very short lived Reds and Western Force, but the average person on the street would be pretty clueless about either league or union. Many wouldn't know the difference.

I've only seen one NRL game live (occasionally watch on tv), Storm vs Broncos at AAMI (it was a fizzer), and it felt very different. Cheerleaders, fireworks, a lot of music. More American.

I am curious, for those with experience in both, how does the general culture between the two differ? Like many in Perth, Melbourne etc are at least casual fans/keep track of their team or AFL, it seems a big part of the culture. For rugby league it as widespread in NSW and Queensland? I get the impression there are more Sydneysiders who have no interest in NRL than Melburnians who don't in AFL (still surprisingly high), would that be inaccurate? What about demographics? Age, gender etc? Is rugby played by as many kids there as rules is in Vic, SA, WA? What are rivalries like, are they as heated as AFL? I think NRL TV ratings aren't that much lower than AFL, but attendances far lower.

I know State of Origin is seen as as big as the grand final, wish we still had Aussie rules state of origin.

This is a long post so bear with me.

League is a working class game.

In the AFL states based on what i know of it - I have followed it all my life but having lived in country NSW all my life and growing up in league culture I haven’t lived in AFL culture - AFL culture is all encompassing. The private schools, the public schools, the corporates, the businesses, the working class, the unemployed, the elite etc.

Junior numbers are reasonable but it’s a brutal game so there’s always a bit of hesitance from parents for kids to play it. I wasn’t allowed to as a kid, it was only once I turned 18 I started.

The whole culture I found in club terms is different to rugby union which I also played. No one cared where you were from or which school you went to, if you were registered you were part of the club and treated with respect and as an equal. Rugby didn’t do that.

In the rugby league world, if you’re from ‘the rich side of the tracks’ you’re an exception. Even those that ARE from that kind of world, have ties often to a ‘working class’ side of money like gambling or racing etc. Few superstars grew up going to exclusive private schools playing other exclusive private schools. The occasional one did and even then it was usually on scholarship.
The only club that has a big reliance on someone with what you would call an ‘elite’ element of money is my team, the Roosters, who are owned by Nick Politis who owns car dealerships in the relatively exclusive Eastern Suburbs. Even he is from an immigrant family that kind of worked its way up so while it’s an elite and rich club in a now-rich area it has some humble background. The ‘spiritual home grounds’ of most teams remain:

- Wests Tigers are a merger of Balmain and Western Suburbs who merged after the Super League war. They play some home games at Leichhardt Oval which is a somewhat archaic ground where Balmain were based but it is a beautiful sight when full and Campbelltown where Wests played (they played at Lidcombe Oval before that) which is less rustic. They also play games at the modern CommBank Stadium which was built a few years back. they are perpetual battlers but have a big following. Wests used to be known as the ‘fibro’ unofficially due to the nature of the housing commission accomodation in their part of western Sydney

- the Canterbury Bankstown Bulldogs are based at the Olympic Stadium and have a massive following and a big Lebanese fanbase. They also play a game of two most seasons at their spiritual home at Belmore stadium which is a shithole but it’s hugely popular.

- Manly-Warringah were another glamour club on the northern beaches and they have always been based at Brookvale Oval. They aren’t hugely popular and have prided themselves on being the most hated team in the comp for decades - it’s a running joke even on Roy and HG that ‘everyone hates Manly’ and during the 70s they had a heated rivalry with Wests where they were known as the Silvertails.

- Parramatta are extremely popular despite winning about as much as Anna Kournikova for the last 40 years. Came into the comp in 1947, won nothing until 1981, won 3 in a row then again in 1986, and have won nothing since. They are the perennial ‘this is our year’ team. They make signing after signing that is touted as ‘the one’ and they occasionally promise a bit but rarely deliver. They absolutely bottled it in 2001 when they were hot favourites only for Newcastle to blow them away in the first half of the grand final. They played out of Parra Stadium (the ‘second’ city centre of Sydney) for years before Commbank was built

- St George-Illawarra who merged late in the 90s. Illawarra entered in 1982 and didn’t have much success, especially compared to Canberra who joined the same year - they just made some finals in the early 90s. They were based in Wollongong just south of Sydney - kind of Geelong distance away. They merged with the Dragons who are in Southern Sydney so a sort of logical merger when teams were threatened with extinction. St George are stable, have a strong supporter base and a long history of success including 11 straight titles in the 50s and 60s, the greatest run in Australian sporting history. They’ve done virtually nothing since the 70s though aside from lose grand finals in all sorts of ways, aside from one win 15 years ago. They split their games between Wollongong which is a mediocre venue but picturesque by sea, and Kogorah which is a dump but a bit rustic and a spiritual home where St George are based and again close to the ocean and has a huge hill.

- Cronulla-Sutherland. Next door neighbours of St George and little brothers, based in the Shire district and have a big rivalry with them, they were the running joke of the league until they finally won their first title 10 years ago. Lots of trophy cabinet jokes. They own their little ground that only holds 13,000 people or so, it’s a dive but it’s right next to their leagues club and near the beach and very convenient for the locals. They’re often competitive but just the definition of mediocre. Few people hate them, but they aren’t popular.

- Souths. Have a huge supporter base, they’re based out of Redfern in the city, they haven’t played there for donkeys years, they were based at the Sydney footy stadium but now are at the Olympic stadium. They have a huge following with the indigenous population. They have won the most titles of anyone but only 1 in the last 50 years or so, they’re a bit like Collingwood minus the stack of lost grand finals. They were abysmal for about 30 years before Russell Crowe bought the club. They hate the Roosters.

- Sydney Roosters - used to be eastern suburbs, changed the name about 28 years ago. Based in Bondi, used to play from the SCG and now the Sydney Football Stadium. We hate Souths. With a passion. We cop it a bit like the Demons for being ‘elitist’ as much as a rugby league fanbase can. Get called latte sippers a lot. We have always hated Souths but it got heated in the 70s when the two sides’ junior territories changed. Theirs ‘extended’ into ours, shall we say. We are both original clubs, they were the more successful for a long time though in modern times we’ve been perennial finalists and won a lot since the turn of the century. We are reasonably popular and buy a lot of people hate us. We have a reputation for buying players though we don’t do it as much as we used to.

- Penrith: Penrith is as far west as west goes in Sydney, it’s almost in the blue mountains. They have an enormous junior base, the biggest in rugby league. They are cashed up to the gills as the Panthers group owns numerous massive leagues clubs, they have academies set up west of the mountains and their junior scouting is second to none. They are mid level for general popularity and had only won two titles before 2021 but winning the last 4 in a row helps and most people would agree that in the last 45 years they rival Parramatta, Canberra of the 90s and the Broncos of the 90s as the best teams we’ve seen. They are unbelievable and they’ve done it without signing anyone of note. I like them. But I’ve notice people are getting sick of them. They have a rivalry with Parramatta for western Sydney. They had an ok ground that held 20,000 but it’s been demolished and they’re playing out of Commbank while it gets rebuilt

- Canberra. The raiders are battlers. They’re an us against them club. Tucked away in the capital, at Bruce Stadium and it’s freezing. They are a side that holds a lot of nostalgia for people of my age. They were a bit like the 07-09 Cats in that they had a star in virtually every position. You wondered how they could lose. They haven’t won since, came close in 2019. They were minor premiers this year but risk straight sets this weekend. They struggle to attract big names.

- Newcastle is a huge league region. Huge. They had a golden period in the 90s when Andrew Johns was there and Paul Harragon and Danny Buderus arrived and some others but they’ve struggled to get to the top end since and some bad decisions have hurt them. They’ve won two comps. They don’t have any major rivals and the stadium is good and they’ve got strong support. They had a horror year.

- The broncos are the West Coast of the comp. Richest club by miles, one team town up until 3 years ago, huge state of the art stadium, history of success, but haven’t won since 2006. Been close twice in the last 10 years and always full of talent. They have a good chance again this year. They will never ever have a problem with crowds or money. They have good rivalries with all the Queensland sides. They threatened some rivalries in the 90s with the other powerhouses like Canberra and Manly and whatnot but the only one they really built for a while was with St George who they beat in consecutive grand finals and ‘stole’ Gordon Tallis from.

- Dolphins play out of Redcliffe in the outskirts of Brisbane, only just entered the comp 3 years ago and were in the Brisbane comp as a successful team for years beforehand so have a rusted on supporter base. They play a few games from a small stadium but mostly out of Suncorp. They obviously have a rivalry with Brisbane and have done well so far without making the finals.

- Gold Coast. Have had 4 different incarnations - Gold Coast-Tweed Giants, Gold Coast Seagulls, Gold Coast Chargers, the latter of whom finally made the finals in the ARL during the super league era, then they went defunct before the Titans were brought in 20 years ago. They’ve done little since and have a fairly low supporter base from a good stadium and even now with what seems like a good roster it remains a mystery as to why they are so consistently shit.

- North Queensland. Have a big junior base, the advantage of a climate that other teams struggle with a bit and relative anonymity up there and after a decade of being non competitive from inception in 1995 they have been consistent finalists since that grand final against Wests in 2005, culminating in a memorable grand final win in 2015. They have a good rivalry with Brisbane and don’t struggle to attract players despite the distance factor. They are popular and get fans travelling from all over the outback to watch them in Townsville and occasionally Bundaberg from memory.

- Melbourne are the Geelong of the NRL. They have missed the finals maybe twice since inception in 1998 and one of those was because they were stripped of all their points for the salary cap scandal. Fans hate them in general and have never forgiven them for it and think there’s a conspiracy to help them. But what they do is remarkable. They rarely sign ‘huge’ names - Bellamy takes okay players and finds roles for them and fashions them into key men, or simply develops young players into superstars. It’s that simple. They play smart football. They DO bend the rules though. If there’s a loophole onfield to exploit, they will find it. They brought wrestling to the fore as well which a lot of fans didn’t like.

- The Warriors. Poor cousin Wahs. The Wahs are everyone’s second favourite team. Very popular in NZ now, they sell out most games and have almost always played exciting, free flowing football based around these enormous but athletic and skillful forwards who have the ball skills of much smaller players. They just never ever seem to find the discipline to harness it. And when they do, something goes wrong: they were playing great footy this year and suddenly had 4 key players get injured in a week or two and staggered to the finals. It’s been 30 years for 0 trophies.


The crowds are much lower. They will never be like AFL crowds. That’s intrinsic I think for starters because for 130 years AFL has been played on grounds and stadiums twice as big so lend themselves to bigger crowds anyway but it’s probably not as good a live viewing game. I will say one thing though: you can hear the brutality and there is nothing like it. I love both games equally but nothing on earth matches that body on body sound.

Player movement has become so common that most of the rivalries have simmered somewhat, the roosters-Rabbitohs (Souths) rivalry is the one that remains and it is still genuinely built on hatred probably as much as if not more than any other in Australian sport.

 

[PerthBoy86]

This is a long post so bear with me.

Thanks for the detailed picture. So you're saying few wealthier Sydneysiders follow/are that involved in the game? I think in England Rugby League is more popular in the north of England and is traditionally more working class (like soccer/football), whereas rugby union is associated with public (private) schools. I've been to Rugby in Warwickshire, nice area.

I'm quite familiar with Sydney, been about 6 times and explored the suburbs a fair bit. NRL teams tend to be based further away from the CBD than Melbourne AFL clubs, because they're generally newer I think. Do you see many fans in the city on gameday? I guess you'd see less as the stadia are more dispersed through the metro and overall crowds lower. It's one thing that adds to the atmosphere of the city from March to September.

Look forward to the Perth Bears entering, at least I'll have a team to barrack for. What side do you support? And how did you start following Geelong living in country NSW?

 

[PhatBoy]

Thanks for the detailed picture. So you're saying few wealthier Sydneysiders follow/are that involved in the game? I think in England Rugby League is more popular in the north of England and is traditionally more working class (like soccer/football), whereas rugby union is associated with public (private) schools. I've been to Rugby in Warwickshire, nice area.

I'm quite familiar with Sydney, been about 6 times and explored the suburbs a fair bit. NRL teams tend to be based further away from the CBD than Melbourne AFL clubs, because they're generally newer I think. Do you see many fans in the city on gameday? I guess you'd see less as the stadia are more dispersed through the metro and overall crowds lower. It's one thing that adds to the atmosphere of the city from March to September.

Look forward to the Perth Bears entering, at least I'll have a team to barrack for. What side do you support? And how did you start following Geelong living in country NSW?

There are wealthy people who follow it but there’s definitely not the proliferation of people that are involved in afl or rugby union. People like Nick Politis and Mark Bouris that are involved with the roosters are the exception rather than the rule.

You will still see people about in their gear - I went to see the Michael Jackson musical at the casino earlier this year on a Saturday night and walking back to Central I saw tonnes of people in Warriors gear actually. But nothing like what you’d see in Melbourne. In the outer suburbs it would be different on game day where the teams are actually based. I went to a Penrith home game with my partner a few years ago and it’s a community event.

Grand final weekend of 1989 I was five years old and just happened to flick on the tv while Ablett was going berserk against the Hawks. I was hooked immediately. I watched Canberra vs Balmain the next day and was a raiders fan for a few years but not as attached and bounced between a few league teams before settling on the Sydney Roosters in 1995 because my best friend was a fan and so was my brother in law and have stuck solid ever since. I think within two seasons we made the finals and have been around the mark most of the time since.

 

[PerthBoy86]

There are wealthy people who follow it but there’s definitely not the proliferation of people that are involved in afl or rugby union. People like Nick Politis and Mark Bouris that are involved with the roosters are the exception rather than the rule.

You will still see people about in their gear - I went to see the Michael Jackson musical at the casino earlier this year on a Saturday night and walking back to Central I saw tonnes of people in Warriors gear actually. But nothing like what you’d see in Melbourne. In the outer suburbs it would be different on game day where the teams are actually based. I went to a Penrith home game with my partner a few years ago and it’s a community event.

Grand final weekend of 1989 I was five years old and just happened to flick on the tv while Ablett was going berserk against the Hawks. I was hooked immediately. I watched Canberra vs Balmain the next day and was a raiders fan for a few years but not as attached and bounced between a few league teams before settling on the Sydney Roosters in 1995 because my best friend was a fan and so was my brother in law and have stuck solid ever since. I think within two seasons we made the finals and have been around the mark most of the time since.

Interesting. Figured since Union was mostly the odd international match/series/tournament it'd be less followed overall. There is a league isnt there? Never hear about it.

Ah yes, an iconic grand final, though a wee bit overrated imo. If I had a current team I'd probably say the Broncos, not sure why but funny you compared them to WC. I tend to prefer the Queensland Maroons in State of Origin too. I like how the Broncos, Maroons and Lions all rock maroon.

I don't remember consciously deciding to follow the Eagles, guess it was just something you did. Don't remember my exact first memory, but I vaguely remember the 92 grand final. It happened to coincide with when I took an interest in both NBL and AFL. Early and mid 90s were a golden age for the Eagles and Wildcats.

What about the participation of indigenous players and fans? Aussie rules has a long history of being associated with indigenous Australians, what about rugby?

 

[PhatBoy]

Re. Money/business associated to the game, there seems to be a bit of a culture attached to a lot of the AFL clubs of having these rich successful businessmen running or propping them up: Joe Gutnick, John Elliott, Paul Little, Skase for a while with the Bears, Frank Costa, Richard Pratt, Jeffrey Eddleston, Bob Ansett, Andrew Bassat - understandable, you want someone with a proven record of success.

The nrl clubs have been privatised in a number of cases - only 7 I think are fan/leagues club owned now, News Ltd owns most of Brisbane, I think the rest are owned by conglomerations or in the case of Manly one person (Scott Penn) so there IS money involved but these are people who are investing rather than running the show if that makes sense. They don’t have a very visible presence. Nathan Tinkler seemed to be very hands on when he was one of Australia’s richest men and bought Newcastle but that went belly up very quickly. Russell Crowe is pretty visible with Souths while Peter Holmes-a-Court is more in the background.

 

[PhatBoy]

Interesting. Figured since Union was mostly the odd international match/series/tournament it'd be less followed overall. There is a league isnt there? Never hear about it.

Ah yes, an iconic grand final, though a wee bit overrated imo. If I had a current team I'd probably say the Broncos, not sure why but funny you compared them to WC. I tend to prefer the Queensland Maroons in State of Origin too. I like how the Broncos, Maroons and Lions all rock maroon.

I don't remember consciously deciding to follow the Eagles, guess it was just something you did. Don't remember my exact first memory, but I vaguely remember the 92 grand final. It happened to coincide with when I took an interest in both NBL and AFL. Early and mid 90s were a golden age for the Eagles and Wildcats.

What about the participation of indigenous players and fans? Aussie rules has a long history of being associated with indigenous Australians, what about rugby?

Indigenous players had a proud history in union to some degree through the Ella brothers and a few others but as a general rule they LOVE their league. It’s the lifeblood of a lot of outback towns with a high indigenous population. I was a journalist before my current job and still do a bit of writing for the country rugby league and have been covering a competition that takes place way out in far west NSW for the last 7-8 years. These towns are mostly 4-500 people, the biggest are Walgett and Bourke (around 3000) and the populations are mostly First Nations. They live for footy. Only problem is some of the towns a bit closer in that play semi-professional footy in Group 10 or other comps offer money so they lose players to them and it puts the small town competitions at risk. The elitism of Union makes it less appealing to indigenous people who don’t have as much access to private education etc. Broadly speaking the Aboriginal league players do a great job promoting the game in remote communities and encouraging development and tournaments like the Koori Knockout see NRL players actually playing footy against run of the mill amateur footballers in end of season competition each year for prize money. It’s a huge event. And like AFL players, the natural talent is ridiculous.

I think most of the other posters in this board would agree that a guy like Greg Inglis is as gifted a player as there has been in the last 30 years. Thurston vies with Andrew Johns and Nathan Cleary as the best playmaker in that period.

Union is definitely less followed overall, the Shute Shield is the Sydney club competition and gets next to no media coverage, the Super Rugby comp that features the Waratahs, Reds, Brumbies and Forces gets a bit of coverage and apparently their viewer figures were up this year but the Western Force crowds were around 6-7000 and even the Reds-Waratahs games maxed out at 20,000.

Tests will always draw good crowds, the Wallabies still get a loyal following and to be honest, I utterly despise rugby but even I would probably sit and watch the Boks play the Allblacks given how brutal some of those games are. The wallabies not so much but they are improving so their fans are positive about them at the moment.

I’m a maroons fan too for what it’s worth. Aside from liking the colour I don’t have a good reason for it. I’d never even been to Queensland until I was 24. My mates hate me for it.

 

[moto748]

Great post, PhatBoy, fascinating to read this thread for me.

 

[PerthBoy86]

Indigenous players had a proud history in union to some degree through the Ella brothers and a few others but as a general rule they LOVE their league. It’s the lifeblood of a lot of outback towns with a high indigenous population. I was a journalist before my current job and still do a bit of writing for the country rugby league and have been covering a competition that takes place way out in far west NSW for the last 7-8 years. These towns are mostly 4-500 people, the biggest are Walgett and Bourke (around 3000) and the populations are mostly First Nations. They live for footy. Only problem is some of the towns a bit closer in that play semi-professional footy in Group 10 or other comps offer money so they lose players to them and it puts the small town competitions at risk. The elitism of Union makes it less appealing to indigenous people who don’t have as much access to private education etc. Broadly speaking the Aboriginal league players do a great job promoting the game in remote communities and encouraging development and tournaments like the Koori Knockout see NRL players actually playing footy against run of the mill amateur footballers in end of season competition each year for prize money. It’s a huge event. And like AFL players, the natural talent is ridiculous.

I think most of the other posters in this board would agree that a guy like Greg Inglis is as gifted a player as there has been in the last 30 years. Thurston vies with Andrew Johns and Nathan Cleary as the best playmaker in that period.

Union is definitely less followed overall, the Shute Shield is the Sydney club competition and gets next to no media coverage, the Super Rugby comp that features the Waratahs, Reds, Brumbies and Forces gets a bit of coverage and apparently their viewer figures were up this year but the Western Force crowds were around 6-7000 and even the Reds-Waratahs games maxed out at 20,000.

Tests will always draw good crowds, the Wallabies still get a loyal following and to be honest, I utterly despise rugby but even I would probably sit and watch the Boks play the Allblacks given how brutal some of those games are. The wallabies not so much but they are improving so their fans are positive about them at the moment.

I’m a maroons fan too for what it’s worth. Aside from liking the colour I don’t have a good reason for it. I’d never even been to Queensland until I was 24. My mates hate me for it.

That's great to hear. Maybe cos I've never lived in NSW/Queensland I never hear about that association. More Pacific Islandsrs. I know that have an aboriginal vs Maori game. Aussie rules/AFL definitely dominates in the NT overall, and of course all of WA. Spent some time up there, its a different world to the big capital cities.

Despise rugby? Why is that?

 

[PhatBoy]

That's great to hear. Maybe cos I've never lived in NSW/Queensland I never hear about that association. More Pacific Islandsrs. I know that have an aboriginal vs Maori game. Aussie rules/AFL definitely dominates in the NT overall, and of course all of WA. Spent some time up there, its a different world to the big capital cities.

Despise rugby? Why is that?

To be honest I got off to a bad start with rugby union as a kid as I just didn’t ‘get’ it. I didn’t have family members teaching me the game and to be brutally honest it’s a more complex game with a lot of nuances and rules - at one point (don’t quote me on this number but I THINK it was correct) there was 106 rules at the breakdown alone (the breakdown is where the tackled player hits the ground and has to put it on the deck behind him and the two teams battle for position and possession above the ball). They have simplified it a lot since then but it’s still a very officiated game and though there are more tries now than there used to be, you still see many matches decided by penalty goals. It’s a more negative match where teams will play for field position and wait for a penalty or even a drop goal rather than just attack and attempt to score tries.

But beyond that. Once I got to uni I gave both codes a go. My home town - Forbes - lost three guys to the Bali bombings and it brought the community together as they were from the rugby club. They won the competition the next year against some far bigger towns and I sort of thought it would be a good experience and mates from my dorm played for the uni club. I also dabbled in the league club that was much more low profile.

The union club favoured anyone that had been to a private school - the ‘old boys’ culture was a pain in the arse and all the private school boys did nothing but suck up to the big names in the club and were promoted through the grades. If you hadn’t played much footy before or didn’t go to the right school it didn’t matter if you were any good you got shunned a bit. There was a culture of hazing; we were in Bathurst so they would come for you late at night in your first year, put you on a bus and make you run up Mount Panorama naked and you were assigned a ‘master’ that you had to sort of buddy with and wait on hand and foot. You were expected to wear a club shirt and tie etc to and from games: I thought ‘I’m a f**king uni student, why do I need to do this. I just want to play the game and drink piss and go to the pub with my mates.’ We won the under 20s comp but I didn’t enjoy it.

When I fully joined the league club, no one gave a shit that I didn’t really have much of a background: I had a real knack for it (being relatively big helped) and I could whack blokes. We played other uni teams around Sydney and Newcastle and had a bus trip every other week. Our first grade team played in the local semi-pro competition so we often found ourselves short during away games and we would double up and play two matches on a Saturday and lose both. We barely won a game the first few seasons. And I f**king loved it. Turn up in shorts and a t-shirt, warm up with a dart and some Maccas, no hazing, and the closest thing to it was on the way home from our first bus trip, the captain coach said ‘ok all first years, hop off and get your kit off and run a kilometre up the highway’ (this is on the road up the blue mountains in full view of 10000 cars). Just to make it easier, we will all do it too. If you don’t want to, just stay on the bus.’ So 25 blokes pile off the bus half pissed, passing around a pack of smokes and there was no running involved.
And as blokes tend to do when they don’t give a shit, it became a weekly ritual anyway. I had more fun losing every week playing with people who didn’t care who I was and appreciated that I could play (I won a couple of B n Fs) than I did with a title winning team where you were judged by where you went to school, what club you may or may not have played for previously, how you presented yourself.

My feelings were validated years later when myself and my band mate were hired to perform at a reunion ball for the rugby club. About 10 ex teammates were there and the jersey we all signed was literally on the stage next to me. One solitary bloke from my team came and spoke to me to catch up. And for the record, I wasn’t a c**t or anything like that during my time at the club i was a normal member of the team, I just didn’t embed myself in the whole arse-kissing culture of it.

That was just my experience of it, everyone is different, but in continuing to work around the sports scene I still see evidence of it a lot and I just don’t like it.

 

[2 eazy]

9 sydney teams only 2 share a stadium with joint venture tigers and dragons each having 2 stadiums very different to 9 Melbourne teams sharing 2 stadiums in afl

 

[LebaneseForces]

For rugby league it as widespread in NSW and Queensland? I get the impression there are more Sydneysiders who have no interest in NRL than Melburnians who don't in AFL (still surprisingly high), would that be inaccurate?

Great thread and discussions so far!!

A few things -

1. TV Ratings tell another story! NRL has more eyeballs on it (At least lately) then AFL.

2. NSWRL/NRL never pushed or even cared about Memberships until maybe 12 or so years ago, it's was never a thing to be a member while in the AFL I believe it's been pushed since the early 90's?

3. Don't under estimate the Super League war (If you don't know about it, read up, it's very interesting) and the effects it had on the growth of RL, AFL got a massive leg up in NSW and QLD while the NRL lost ground everywhere, NRL was controlled 50% by News limited who gave 2 F***s about the game and continually undersold TV rights for decades to themselves.

With strong leadership the NRL is finally getting back on track and excelling in all departments... Growth has been crazy the last couple of years, the NRL finally has money in the bank and buying assets galore also!

Going to games in the 00's the crowd was relatively male dominated... These days it seems like more and more females are going and the number of kids that go is insane (At least for Bulldog games).

Perth got around 200,000 TV average for the NRL on a Sunday night (No public holiday on Monday I believe), with the Perth Bears coming in those numbers will only go up! Perth also have always had a hardcore RL community.

The AFL will always have the higher attendances, it's more ingrained in Melbourne folk to go to games, it's central and easier to get too and you guys play at the big stadiums! NRL have to many teams in Sydney which will always hold it back and for some reason the suburban $hitholes are used way to much, however the culture is changing and some of the below examples are proof of it;

NZ Warriors - Sold out every game last year and most if not all this year
Brisbane Broncos - Averaged over 40,000 this season and most of the year they were outside the 8, next year expect all games to be sold out to members alone.
Canterbury Bulldogs - Averaged over 30,000, one game got 65,000 and another 59,000 (In rain)... As stated above the amount of kids who went was crazy and they'll be hooked for life.
Manly - Sold out all games last couple of years I believe (Yes only 17,000 capacity but still).
Roosters - The amount of support they have is always underestimated but they constantly average 25,000 and rising.
Newcastle - Wooden Spooners but get around 23-25,000 average.



Australian sporting landscape is big enough for AFL and NRL...

 

[2 eazy]

Great thread and discussions so far!!

A few things -

1. TV Ratings tell another story! NRL has more eyeballs on it (At least lately) then AFL.

2. NSWRL/NRL never pushed or even cared about Memberships until maybe 12 or so years ago, it's was never a thing to be a member while in the AFL I believe it's been pushed since the early 90's?

3. Don't under estimate the Super League war (If you don't know about it, read up, it's very interesting) and the effects it had on the growth of RL, AFL got a massive leg up in NSW and QLD while the NRL lost ground everywhere, NRL was controlled 50% by News limited who gave 2 F***s about the game and continually undersold TV rights for decades to themselves.

With strong leadership the NRL is finally getting back on track and excelling in all departments... Growth has been crazy the last couple of years, the NRL finally has money in the bank and buying assets galore also!

Going to games in the 00's the crowd was relatively male dominated... These days it seems like more and more females are going and the number of kids that go is insane (At least for Bulldog games).

Perth got around 200,000 TV average for the NRL on a Sunday night (No public holiday on Monday I believe), with the Perth Bears coming in those numbers will only go up! Perth also have always had a hardcore RL community.

The AFL will always have the higher attendances, it's more ingrained in Melbourne folk to go to games, it's central and easier to get too and you guys play at the big stadiums! NRL have to many teams in Sydney which will always hold it back and for some reason the suburban $hitholes are used way to much, however the culture is changing and some of the below examples are proof of it;

NZ Warriors - Sold out every game last year and most if not all this year
Brisbane Broncos - Averaged over 40,000 this season and most of the year they were outside the 8, next year expect all games to be sold out to members alone.
Canterbury Bulldogs - Averaged over 30,000, one game got 65,000 and another 59,000 (In rain)... As stated above the amount of kids who went was crazy and they'll be hooked for life.
Manly - Sold out all games last couple of years I believe (Yes only 17,000 capacity but still).
Roosters - The amount of support they have is always underestimated but they constantly average 25,000 and rising.
Newcastle - Wooden Spooners but get around 23-25,000 average.



Australian sporting landscape is big enough for AFL and NRL...

Manly to Penrith is an hour, same as Parramatta to Cronulla or Campbeltown to Moore Park is 45 minutes not including traffic and tolls. Pros is the pretty much every Sydney team has their own home ground, Richmond v Collingwood has no home ground feel even if its Demons v St. Kilda has no home ground advantage as melbourne teams play mcg and marvel so often . Cons is only 4-5 nrl stadiums are up to standard

 

[LebaneseForces]

Manly to Penrith is an hour

Penrith have averaged 13,000 at Parramatta (Officially averaged 19,000 but they counted Vegas and Magic Round which is stupid), the 4 time Premiers... It's embarrasing TBH.

I've asked a few Penrith supporters why? It's only 30 mins down the road and/or express train away, they got so defensive saying it's 35 minutes away, who wants to travel etc

That 13,000 was also propped up by games V Parramatta and Canterbury which drew well.

 

[2 eazy]

Penrith have averaged 13,000 at Parramatta (Officially averaged 19,000 but they counted Vegas and Magic Round which is stupid), the 4 time Premiers... It's embarrasing TBH.

I've asked a few Penrith supporters why? It's only 30 mins down the road and/or express train away, they got so defensive saying it's 35 minutes away, who wants to travel etc

That 13,000 was also propped up by games V Parramatta and Canterbury which drew well.

To be fair also people from Eastern suburbs, manly and the shire dont like to travel

 

[PhatBoy]

Penrith have averaged 13,000 at Parramatta (Officially averaged 19,000 but they counted Vegas and Magic Round which is stupid), the 4 time Premiers... It's embarrasing TBH.

I've asked a few Penrith supporters why? It's only 30 mins down the road and/or express train away, they got so defensive saying it's 35 minutes away, who wants to travel etc

That 13,000 was also propped up by games V Parramatta and Canterbury which drew well.

With Penrith - and probably Manly as well - their home games have a real community and country flavour to them almost. You don’t get that almost army feel to them like you get with the Dogs or Parra where they converge on this venue.

With Penrith the stadium it may as well be a literal community park right in the centre of a country town like Dubbo or Orange and the locals just come down from this 3-4km radius mostly and don’t need to get much transport to and from the ground.

It would be a very foreign thing to suddenly uproot that and need to get public transport every single week for a home game and go to the ‘mini’ city of Parramatta to a ground with a totally different atmosphere

 

[2 eazy]

With Penrith - and probably Manly as well - their home games have a real community and country flavour to them almost. You don’t get that almost army feel to them like you get with the Dogs or Parra where they converge on this venue.

With Penrith the stadium it may as well be a literal community park right in the centre of a country town like Dubbo or Orange and the locals just come down from this 3-4km radius mostly and don’t need to get much transport to and from the ground.

It would be a very foreign thing to suddenly uproot that and need to get public transport every single week for a home game and go to the ‘mini’ city of Parramatta to a ground with a totally different atmosphere

Same as cronulla roosters fans they like to stay in their area like rarely leave for anything.

 

[PhatBoy]

Same as cronulla roosters fans they like to stay in their area like rarely leave for anything.

Yep definitely Sharks fans are literally coming from primarily a good 1-wood away in so many cases.

I’ve only been to maybe half a dozen roosters games at the SFS that weren’t finals - oddly I’ve been to a number at the SCG when Renos were taking place and a couple of one-off games there as well - but you’ve got a lot of people from the local area that just regularly converge in the Captain Cook and the Bat and Ball that stroll over to the games. In Penrith you have High St and Derby St right near the main drag that runs past the ground and of course Panthers leagues that is one of the biggest leagues clubs in the country and it’s right next to the blue mountains as well. Can definitely see why there’s that reluctance there. There is a clear difference between the stay at home clubs and the nomadic ones