I didn't say centre-right, did I? Most of this thread has concerned Labor and the Democrats, anyway.
Politics How does the left get its political mojo back and win power?
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- Jun 14, 2013
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Center right is still part of the right. My opinion is the right will be ok if they kick out elements that bow down to corporate, religious, and conspiracy nutter interests, and ensure pollies can't easily be bought.
I thought Turnbull was ok.
- Jun 14, 2013
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Why is that so?
- May 1, 2016
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For whatever reason (I think due to lessons learnt under Nixon and fulfilled by Reagan) the right learnt that the cosmetic and aesthetic are more important to a voter than substance is. It's ironic that they've spent the immediate past accusing the left of playing identity politics (in a bit of a mirror of the accusation of class warfare of previous generations) when the right has built themselves in a modern context on getting people to identify themselves as 'centrists', while redefining centrism as conservativism.
Make the aesthetic of one choice more attractive than the other, then use that choice as a definition of identity: by making this decision, this is who you are and what you are saying. You're not a unionist or a tradesman; you're a member of the 'aspirational middle class', you're a 'centrist', a 'quiet Australian'. You believe in common sense solutions to economic markets (a conservative position) and you grow over time to dismiss the findings of academia you dislike (which is also a conservative position). You become a property owner, and you start a family; your desire for radical societal change is replaced by stability and the comforting economics of middle class life, and you begin to reject politics as a means of societal change as a means of progress (more conservative positions). If you follow sports (at least, if you did through the 90's and early 2000's) you bought the Herald Sun for the sports section, and you were influenced unconsciously by the headlines on the front; you might read an article or two by that Bolt fellow, because it feels transgressive to say what he's saying out loud.
You say you're a centrist in conversation, yet on each area of opinion you align entirely more with a conservative position on almost everything.
Obviously, this is a highly partisan take, and it's a massive generalisation to boot. But I'd think that to a certain extent the above is at least on a superficial level from the more intelligent in those conceiving of right wing strategy something that they've tried to do over time, because this is how things look.
Now, look at it from the other side of the aisle. You're a leftie, and you're trying to get those people to vote for you. Neoliberal economics are rote in western economies, and you need to adopt them even superficially to get the 'centrists' to vote for you. You step too far out of line in a progressive sense, you get clobbered in the media for it and lose these voters. You make too many moves to reshape society, you get clobbered in the media and lose these voters. You're hammered into position, defined by what you cannot do more than what you are doing.
The only moves when all else is either a risk or a trap is either to do nothing, or to double down; move right to spite yourself, and to hope you can get enough of a mandate at some point to change things back or for the better, using what small leverage you have to improve things at the margins. But that too works against you; you are a party elected when the electorate feels something need be done. The other team's the group that is elected to be a passive government; they only elect you when passivity becomes stagnancy.
You've got a public who elected you to do something, a media who will clobber you unless you do what they want you to do, and a subsection of the population who will clobber you alongside the media. You have to affect the trappings of neoliberal economics to even get that far, and if you're not careful you're actually going to drift right yourself before you have time to remedy things.
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- Jun 14, 2013
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It seems both major parties have shifted to the right. Is it possible for a LW party to win a 2 horse race in Australia?
You've been in this thread since page one, and I know you're intelligent enough to understand context. It hasn't been about the electoral fortunes of the Greens or the Victorian Socialists.
Who will be left if that happens? Those types dominate the party now. The Libs will never let go of corporate interests simply because they survive on large corporate donations.
They didn't want him. Everyone similar to Turnbull is now a teal independent, with the possible exception of Bridget Archer. I don't see a way back for the Turnbull types unless the Libs lose the next three federal elections.
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I'm confident you'd see a different side to me in a real world discussion.
The media is one area where I think the broader left needs to take the Donald Trump approach. Journalists (and I use that term loosely) are going to be biased against you anyway, so the don't even attempt to play nice. Take every opportunity to demonise them and rile your base up against them. And when you're at your own partisan rally, make veiled threats against them if you have to. Destroy their credibility or it'll remain a one-sided narrative.
(Unless, of course, they're partisan in the broader left's favour like Fox News is to Trump. But in Australia, that can only possibly be levied at The Guardian and nobody else, no matter how the right piss and moan about how the ABC is biased).
In city councils, yes. In the ACT, yes. In Victoria, yes. You could argue Dan Andrews is to the left of federal Labor. Everywhere else, no.
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In that case, let LWNJ and RWNJ's do their thing while leaving independent media sources untouched. I don't give a s**t if I don't see it on the ABC.
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In what ways? Do you view the Vic ALP as LW overall?
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No. But the left did get back their mojo. This thread can be closed down. The question has been answered.
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Is the ALP left?
I see the teals becoming the defacto conservative party and the liberals becoming a fringe.
- May 1, 2016
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This was the universal 'you', not you specifically.
Turnbull was weak as piss. Could have gone down swinging but tried to placate the RW nutters and got knifed anyway.
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As a general rule, the political class will be mostly conservative - even those representing supposed left wing parties.
It's pretty logical - said class has got a ******* sweet deal so why would they want to potentially upend that too much.
Personally, that doesn't bother me. Just as long as the ruling party promotes sustainable capitalism, doesn't put active barriers in front of environmental conservation, doesn't seek to transfer wealth from the poor to the already wealthy and doesn't have leader(s) who actively discriminate... Us "lefties" will do the rest at grassroots level
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Turnbull resigned in a spill after 30 consecutive Newspolls put the Coalition behind the ALP. He put his leadership credentials on the line. I'd have thought that qualifies as "going down swinging". His replacement won the subsequent election.
Well if they are, then why do we need a left oriented entity back into power?
After all they're centred as you suggest right? Would there be any tangible difference if they were centre left? I doubt it.
I seriously doubt the majority of society that we know of would want a more fringe leaning power, otherwise either the Greens or one neuron would be in power.
So long as the power of the day is centred i:e caters (or claims to) for the majority then that's the best we can hope for.
I'm more than ok with the current Labor power rather.
Turnbull was 'ok' because he shared the view of the majority >the centre< not because he's ever so slightly right leaning.
Well currently the ruling party in Aus is yet to stoop to the levels of previous ruling party >yet< afaik.As a general rule, the political class will be mostly conservative - even those representing supposed left wing parties.
It's pretty logical - said class has got a ******* sweet deal so why would they want to potentially upend that too much.
Personally, that doesn't bother me. Just as long as the ruling party promotes sustainable capitalism, doesn't put active barriers in front of environmental conservation, doesn't seek to transfer wealth from the poor to the already wealthy and doesn't have leader(s) who actively discriminate... Us "lefties" will do the rest at grassroots level
But let's not rule it out though, just coz Labor doesn't guarantee they won't do any of these things that the libs did.
However I'm confident if they stray the same path it'll be political suicide.
What is that you 'lefties' will do?
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I'm firmly of the view that a majority of society want something akin to the status quo with minor tweaks. Fringe elements of the right and left aren't likely to change their voting intentions so power will continue to be formed by the swinging voters that form an estimated 30-40% of the electorate. With a deplorable LNP, it's hardly surprising to see the federal ALP win power.
I don't know what a center left party would look like to be honest. At a guess, it would focus more on social issues, workers rights and workplace conditions, and ensuring education and healthcare are either free or close to it.
The LNP needs to rethink what they stand for if they want to stay relevant. We're not the USA.
Labor are focusing on those issues, at least that's how it looks. On top of other issues.
Some may view that as 'centre left ', others 'centre right ' , in any case the govt. Seems very centred to me.
If there is any leaning it is so marginal it's not even worthy of mention.
I really don't see the purpose of this thread. Why would the majority want a fringe element in power? The answer is they don't
- May 1, 2016
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Another thread, another 'what I want = what the majority wants' false equivalence. I genuinely do not know If my eyes could roll harder.
Are we done with the patting ourselves on the back, reassuring ourselves that our personal, specific opinions about wider society are shared section of this thread, or does it have another 12 hours to run?
Are we done with the patting ourselves on the back, reassuring ourselves that our personal, specific opinions about wider society are shared section of this thread, or does it have another 12 hours to run?
- Jun 14, 2013
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I'd appreciate you tagging me if you're going to talk s**t about me.
